Palestine and Israel | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Palestine and Israel

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Ibe never said they were “the”. But they represent the Palestinians in Gaza. They’re the ruling party aren’t they?
The state of Israel in of the Jewish people.
Don't obfuscate the obvious.

I don’t need to. Just speak honestly and openly. Others might see the need when they’re trying to be disingenuous
now we get the nub of the issue

Hamas, who absolutely noone on this site has ever supported nor justified their actions, represent the people of Gaza so therefore they are responsible for their actions. They do so because they were the government even though probably the majority of the people who would now be eligible to vote couldn't in 2006. Hamas is not the Palestinian people full stop. I go back to something I said nearly 6 months ago which was that the actions of Hamas would do harm to the Palestinian cause and it did. The reasons why are staring us in the face, the fact that many now ignore that this whole issue is about Palestinian rights and the actions of the State of Israel in taking away those rights and instead have made it about October 7 which although horrible is a symptom of that issue.

The State of Israel is not the jewish people. It is a nation state which has a majority of jewish people. There are many more jewish people who don't live in Israel for a start and you would also know that this right wing government was on it's last legs before October 7.

You don't do nuance I suspect because you can't. The snide comment about disingenuous is exactly that, snide and nasty.

Your innuendo is that those that support the Palestinian cause are supporters of Hamas, that there is an undertone of racism, condone violence etc. None of it is true and it doesn't matter what you say, it will never be true.
Yep your rhetoric and agreeing with others has shown quite a shift from “stolen land” to something else now.
Acting as it you haven’t proves that point extremely well.

They’d must have the same aim as Hamas. Wipe out the opposite people. Good, that would save $billions and stop the victims complaining and all the violent protests. Think of all the martyrs. They love others becoming martyrs, they can try it out for themselves. There is plenty of land in paradise, they can meet Mohammad. That would make the Middle East a peaceful area

Yeah it’s all about the land. Anything Hamas or any Palestinian does any bombing, rockets or suicide vests, shooting, stabbing or whatever is justified because they lost their land.

It’s just a coincidence that the land thieves were Jewish. The people living on that land are Jewish. The people targeted by the Palestinian terror groups are Jewish. The people targeted are Jewish. the People slaughtered are Jewish. The people kidnapped are Jewish.
Their slogans call for “death to the Jews”. Htheir constitution specifically says “ death to all Jews”
I wonder what they mean by that?

Just one big coincidence
Your first sentence in that last post is unintelligible

My rhetoric has not changed. Yours has because the rest is an ugly rant and is frankly disgusting.
 
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The fascist Zionists won't stop until they kill every Palestinian child alive. The problem for them is Iran is becoming more and more powerful with the backing and growing alliance with Russia and China and will arm it's proxies who surround the zionists with more and more sophisticated weapons. The problem for the world is the Zionists believe they are gods chosen people and will not hesitate to nuke the planet if their safety is under threat. The real problem is the world doesn't have enough real leaders to call for calm and a resolution.
 
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now we get the nub of the issue

Hamas, who absolutely noone on this site has ever supported nor justified their actions, represent the people of Gaza so therefore they are responsible for their actions. They do so because they were the government even though probably the majority of the people who would now be eligible to vote couldn't in 2006. Hamas is not the Palestinian people full stop.

I go back to something I said nearly 6 months ago which was that the actions of Hamas would do harm to the Palestinian cause and it did. The reasons why are staring us in the face, the fact that many now ignore that this whole issue is about Palestinian rights and the actions of the State of Israel in taking away those rights and instead have made it about October 7 which although horrible is a symptom of that issue.
Yes the culmination of years of being victims led to the slaughter of 1200 men, women and children. 240 taken hostage.
Then in retaliation of those atrocities to hunt down the perpetrators has cost even more lives.
The State of Israel is not the jewish people. It is a nation state which has a majority of jewish people.
The State of Israel is of the Jewish people and for the Jewish people. Saying it isn’t doesn’t change that fact. You can repeat it ad nauseum, but it won’t change that fact.
There are many more jewish people who don't live in Israel for a start
So what. That changes nothing. It was founded for the Jewish people to have a homeland wasn’t it? That spells it out
and you would also know that this right wing government was on it's last legs before October 7.
They didn’t commit mass slaughter of 1200 people and the other atrocities or kidnap 240 innocent people.
Whether it was or wasn’t there is only Hamas to blame.
You don't do nuance I suspect because you can't. The snide comment about disingenuous is exactly that, snide and nasty.
oh ffs shove your nuance! Just speak plainly. I couldn’t give a toss whether it’s snide and nasty compared to what I put up with on here
Your innuendo is that those that support the Palestinian cause are supporters of Hamas, that there is an undertone of racism, condone violence etc. None of it is true and it doesn't matter what you say, it will never be true.
Of course! I don’t need innuendo or nuance. Facts are facts and people who say i5s not about racism or codone violence are just hiding behind other words
Like…Nobody condones the murders by Hamas… but hen go on with more *smile*, there were no atrocities, no mass rapes, no babies beheaded… so *smile* what if the babies were beheaded or not...they were still murdered, noburnings, no video evidence, so none of it happened.
In other words, there might have been a death or two and that’s it. If anything else did happen, it was to be expected after what “the sate of Israel” has done to Palestinians for so many years.

Here’s a question for you Sin, if it was the “state of Israel” being the transgressor why did Hamas aim its violence at Israeli civilians?
Obviously Hamas hasn’t read your script. Or if they have they know bull *smile* when they see it.
One or the other, which one is it?

Your first sentence in that last post is unintelligible
Only to you
My rhetoric has not changed. Yours has because the rest is an ugly rant and is frankly disgusting.
Of course it has, by quite a few degrees.
The rest of the ugly rant which is frankly disgusting is the flip side of the coin to being a pro Palestinian supporter.
Obviously you missed the “nuance“. Funny how that works.
 
The fascist Zionists won't stop until they kill every Palestinian child alive.
Ah it’s the fascists Zionists now Harry.
I think you are highly exaggerating what Israel wants. I don’t think they want to kill very Palestinian child at all. Ultimately they might want them living elsewhere but they’re not Hamas.
The problem for them is Iran is becoming more and more powerful with the backing and growing alliance with Russia and China and will arm its proxies who surround the zionists with more and more sophisticated weapons.
Well yes, that’s quite acceptable really. After all they’re all directed at Israel. Luckily not at the Jewish people but at the State of Israel. I bet they all sigh will relief.
The problem for the world is the Zionists believe they are gods chosen people and will not hesitate to nuke the planet if their safety is under threat.
Yea( fancy that. If they're faced with the destruction of their whole country and the entire Israeli Jewish race they might either retaliate or defend their nation. Chosen people or not.

Now I’d wager that they wouldn’t be the only people who would do that. You know! Defend themselves. Shocking as it may be.

I don’t think they’d nuke the planet, you’re getting very excitable Harry, calm down a bit.

But nuke their opponents, their sworn enemies who have no other aim that the total destruction of the Israeli Jewish people and state.
I‘d press the button myself if I was in their position. Just as any man would to protect his family and country.
Obviously a few on here wouldn’t look to protect anyone apart from themselves. Says a lot about them doesn’t it.
The real problem is the world doesn't have enough real leaders to call for calm and a resolution.
That’s about the only thing youve said that makes sense. Bravo.
 
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Yes the culmination of years of being victims led to the slaughter of 1200 men, women and children. 240 taken hostage.
Then in retaliation of those atrocities to hunt down the perpetrators has cost even more lives.

The State of Israel is of the Jewish people and for the Jewish people. Saying it isn’t doesn’t change that fact. You can repeat it ad nauseum, but it won’t change that fact.

So what. That changes nothing. It was founded for the Jewish people to have a homeland wasn’t it? That spells it out

They didn’t commit mass slaughter of 1200 people and the other atrocities or kidnap 240 innocent people.
Whether it was or wasn’t there is only Hamas to blame.

oh ffs shove your nuance! Just speak plainly. I couldn’t give a toss whether it’s snide and nasty compared to what I put up with on here

Of course! I don’t need innuendo or nuance. Facts are facts and people who say i5s not about racism or codone violence are just hiding behind other words
Like…Nobody condones the murders by Hamas… but hen go on with more *smile*, there were no atrocities, no mass rapes, no babies beheaded… so *smile* what if the babies were beheaded or not...they were still murdered, noburnings, no video evidence, so none of it happened.
In other words, there might have been a death or two and that’s it. If anything else did happen, it was to be expected after what “the sate of Israel” has done to Palestinians for so many years.

Here’s a question for you Sin, if it was the “state of Israel” being the transgressor why did Hamas aim its violence at Israeli civilians?
Obviously Hamas hasn’t read your script. Or if they have they know bull *smile* when they see it.
One or the other, which one is it?


Only to you

Of course it has, by quite a few degrees.
The rest of the ugly rant which is frankly disgusting is the flip side of the coin to being a pro Palestinian supporter.
Obviously you missed the “nuance“. Funny how that works.
Your post shows how little of what people are saying you really understand

The world is not black and white Willo, there are not goodies and baddies, it’s not an old style western. The world is made up of contradictions and grey areas and frankly anyone who sees it any other way will always struggle with what happens in the world, as you clearly do.

Even your highlighted question is irrelevant, you aren’t listening. No one is defending Hamas so why do you keep on asking questions about them? What Hamas did does not change the fundamental rights of Palestinians

I fear you may have lost it and your true feelings are starting to surface. It is getting close to basic anti Islamic and Arab racism. I hope I am wrong.
 
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Ah it’s the fascists Zionists now Harry.
I think you are highly exaggerating what Israel wants. I don’t think they want to kill very Palestinian child at all. Ultimately they might want them living elsewhere but they’re not Hamas.

Well yes, that’s quite acceptable really. After all they’re all directed at Israel. Luckily not at the Jewish people but at the State of Israel. I bet they all sigh will relief.

Yea( fancy that. If they're faced with the destruction of their whole country and the entire Israeli Jewish race they might either retaliate or defend their nation. Chosen people or not.

Now I’d wager that they wouldn’t be the only people who would do that. You know! Defend themselves. Shocking as it may be.

I don’t think they’d nuke the planet, you’re getting very excitable Harry, calm down a bit.

But nuke their opponents, their sworn enemies who have no other aim that the total destruction of the Israeli Jewish people and state.
I‘d press the button myself if I was in their position. Just as any man would to protect his family and country.
Obviously a few on here wouldn’t look to protect anyone apart from themselves. Says a lot about them doesn’t it.

That’s about the only thing youve said that makes sense. Bravo.
The irony here Willo is that if a brave, chest beating person like yourself was born a Palestinian you'd be a part of Hamas. Think about that for a second.
 
Your post shows how little of what people are saying you really understand
Oh of course I wouldn’t understand. It’s only people who are pro Palestinian who have any idea whatsoever that happens. Nobody else. Why doesn’t that come as a surprise.
The world is not black and white Willo, there are not goodies and baddies, it’s not an old style western. The world is made up of contradictions and grey areas and frankly anyone who sees it any other way will always struggle with what happens in the world, as you clearly do.
oh of course let’s be condescending and pot anyone who dares voice or have a; opinion that differs fro: the park Palestinian posse.
That just shows your arguments are weak and indefensible.
Like saying “the sate of Israel” instead of the Israeli Jews or the Jewish homeland. Or there are more Ames not living in Israel.
Thats the pisser of the thread. What a cop out.
“The state of Israel” just in case someone dares to call you out for being antisemitic or racist.
What is Hamas? The state of Hamas. Too funny for any more words.
Even your highlighted question is irrelevant, you aren’t listening. No one is defending Hamas so why do you keep on asking questions about them? What Hamas did does not change the fundamental rights of Palestinians
Of course it’s irrelevant. It counters your words quite succinctly and you just don’t want to answer it.
It proves you wrong 8;your choice of words. They‘re meaningless.
I fear you may have lost it and your true feelings are starting to surface. It is getting close to basic anti Islamic and Arab racism. I hope I am wrong.
No I haven’t lost my true feelings at all. I’ve been consistently calling out my beliefs since day dot. .
I really couldn’t give a toss if people think I’m being anti islamic. People can think what they like. It’s a forum! It’s not going to cause me any issues. Truth be told, I probably lean that way when you read about the Islamic fundamentalists and terror groups doing what they do
Decapitating people, random stabbings on London Bridge, bombing trains, the Taliban, Houthis, Sharia Law, Persecution of different ethnicities and religions and of womens rights! Gays (oops gays for Palestine are in) and all the rest. There is a problem with either that religion and the absolute majority of its followers still l8ving pre the Middle Ages.

Nah! Not arabs. I don’t have a problem with them. So I don’t think I’m racist. But as I said I couldn’t give a toss if others thought differently.
Pity that others hide beside nuance,Little connotations, sly hints etc.
They can’t be honest and just say they’re antisemitic because of Israel’s past treatment of Palestinians. They hide, they obfuscate, but worse they cant be honest to themselves and just say it.
Or they’re racist anti Jews, but they’re too frightened someone will call them that.

So really they don’t have the strength of their convictions. They want to ride with the posse and fit in and be seen to be a progressive thinker and a humanitarian. Even while they betray their own convictions.
Tha5 would be a bigger issue to me, than being called names by others
 
The irony here Willo is that if a brave, chest beating person like yourself was born a Palestinian you'd be a part of Hamas. Think about that for a second.
Oh well done Harry, another marvellous post from you.
No, if I born a Palestinian as a family man I’d make sure my family didn’t become a 5th generation victim who depended on the world’s charity. I’d do what many other Palestinians have done and moved and provided a better life for those I loved.
Not take up a gun and murder, rape and commit atrocities against innocent people.
Some people will do something about it. While others will moan for a hundred years what could have been and do nothing

Maybe you shouldn’t judge people by what your own actions would be. Think about that for a second
 
Oh well done Harry, another marvellous post from you.
No, if I born a Palestinian as a family man I’d make sure my family didn’t become a 5th generation victim who depended on the world’s charity. I’d do what many other Palestinians have done and moved and provided a better life for those I loved.
Not take up a gun and murder, rape and commit atrocities against innocent people.
Some people will do something about it. While others will moan for a hundred years what could have been and do nothing

Maybe you shouldn’t judge people by what your own actions would be. Think about that for a second
So you'd run from your homeland and leave it to the Zionists.
 
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So you'd run from your homeland and leave it to the Zionists.
Yep. I’d make a life for my family. They would be my priority..
I thought those fascists had already stole my little piece of dirt 70 years ago when my ancestors were nakba’d

Which homeland did your folks run away from Harry?
 
Yep. I’d make a life for my family. They would be my priority..
I thought those fascists had already stole my little piece of dirt 70 years ago when my ancestors were nakba’d
Exactly what the Zionists want.
 
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What might have been..if he had lived

The Life of Yitzhak Rabin​

The slain Israeli prime minister was a military hero who embarked on a historic effort to bring peace to his country and paid for it with his life.
Yitzhak Rabin was an Israeli military hero and political leader who served two terms as prime minister. He was assassinated while in office on November 4, 1995 in Tel Aviv.

A prominent member of the Israeli establishment for more than five decades, Rabin spent his early years of public service building the capacity of the Israel Defense Forces, which he led to a spectacular victory in the 1967 Six-Day War. But while he distinguished himself in his early years as a cunning military man, he is best remembered for enacting perhaps the most consequential shift in the history of Israeli foreign policy: the launch of the Israeli-Palestinian peace process and the signing of the historic Oslo Accords in 1993. The agreement, for which Rabin earned a Nobel Prize but paid with his life, would forever alter the basic terms of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Early Life​

Rabin was born in Jerusalem in 1922 to Rosa Cohen and Nehemiah Rubichev, both immigrants from the Russian Empire. The family was poor, but Rabin’s parents were politically connected. When Rabin’s mother died in 1937, David Ben Gurion, the future prime minister, attended her funeral.

Rabin attended the Kadoorie Agricultural High School in the Galilee where he excelled, earning a prize at graduation from the British High Commissioner that would have entitled him to study abroad. Instead, Rabin stayed in Israel and, in 1941, enlisted in the Palmach, a pre-state militia.

Military Career​

Rabin rose steadily through the ranks of the military, earning a reputation as an outstanding intellect and a capable thinker in matters of military strategy and operations despite his shyness and social awkwardness. During the 1948 war, he was instrumental in securing the besieged road to Jerusalem. In 1964, he became the Israel Defense Forces chief of staff.
Three years later, with Rabin at the helm of the IDF, the Six-Day War broke out. Israel’s lightning victory in the war and the vast enlargement of its territory helped burnish Rabin’s image as a legendary military figure. But a speech he delivered at Hebrew University seemed to foreshadow the complications of that victory — namely, the occupation of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, which Rabin would be compelled to grapple with later as prime minister. “It is possible the Jewish people have never been educated or accustomed to feel the joy of conquest and victory,” Rabin said. “Therefore, it is received with mixed feelings.”

Rabin retired from the army following the war and went to Washington as Israel’s ambassador, a five-year period during which he gained valuable diplomatic experience and an extensive network of connections among American Jews and Washington political figures.

Entering Israeli Politics​

Almost immediately upon his return to Israel, he began a career in politics, starting his first stint as prime minister in 1974 — the first native-born Israeli to hold that position.



rabinford-1010x630.jpg
Credit: U.S. Government Archives


His tenure began at a difficult moment for Israel. The 1973 Yom Kippur War had caught Israel unawares and the public fallout was significant. The Arab Oil Embargo led to a a quadrupling of global oil prices and an increase in Arab wealth and influence. And Rabin was forced to contend with a fragile parliamentary majority and an increasingly fractious Israeli public.

But Rabin nevertheless managed to achieve an interim agreement with Egypt in 1975, an accord seen as paving the way for the full peace treaty signed in 1979. He also presided over the spectacularly successful rescue of the passengers of a hijacked airplane at the Entebbe airport in Uganda, a mission considered one of the Israeli military’s most legendary feats.

Always an astute strategist, Rabin was already growing concerned about the long-term viability of Israel’s military presence in the West Bank and Gaza. Though he was often careful in his public statements at the time, documents revealed decades later show that he considered Israeli authority there to be untenable and would eventually lead to apartheid. Those views led to increasing conflict with Shimon Peres, Rabin’s longtime political rival, who at the time was sympathetic to the Israeli settler community, an increasingly vocal and potent force in Israeli politics.

Rabin’s tenure ended in disgrace after his wife Leah was prosecuted for maintaining an American bank account in violation of Israeli law. Rabin resigned as Labor Party leader ahead of the 1977 elections and was replaced by Peres, who led the party to a stunning defeat, ending decades of Labor hegemony.

But Rabin stayed in politics, becoming minister of defense under a national unity government in 1984. Three years later, the Palestinian uprising known as the First Intifada began. As defense minister, Rabin ordered the use of force to put down the uprising, which was largely the work of Palestinian civilians. But over time, Rabin came to believe that the Intifada was driven by deeper forces in Israeli-Palestinian relations that could not ultimately be put to rest without a political settlement.

Launch of the Peace Process​

In 1992, Rabin was again elected prime minister and he began to translate this belief into actual policy. A secret negotiating channel with the Palestinians led, in 1993, to the signing of the Oslo Accords, a groundbreaking agreement in which Israel and the Palestinian Liberation Organization recognized one another and promised to negotiate a peace settlement based on the land-for-peace formula. Rabin was visibly uncomfortable shaking the hand of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat at the signing ceremony on the White House lawn, a sign of his ambivalence about the agreement generally and about Arafat particularly.

The Oslo process did not proceed smoothly, though it did pave the way for Rabin’s conclusion of a peace treaty with Jordan in 1994 and the softening of Arab exclusion of Israel from regional economic gatherings. Rabin, Peres and Arafat also shared a Nobel Peace Prize in 1994.



rabinnobel-945x630.jpg
Credit: Israel Government Press Office


Nevertheless, Rabin’s peace agenda — both on the Palestinian front and with Syria, where he was willing to contemplate withdrawal from the strategically significant Golan Heights in exchange for peace — began to generate significant domestic opposition, fed by a surge in terrorist activity in 1994 and 1995. Rabin was increasingly the target of venomous rhetoric describing him as a traitor and a Nazi. After 22 Israelis were killed in a bus bombing in central Tel Aviv in October, 1994, Benjamin Netanyahu, then the leader of the opposition, went to the site of the attack and accused Rabin of favoring the welfare of the Palestinians over that of Israelis. A number of hardline rabbis suggested that Jewish laws which allow the killing of a Jew who endangers Jewish lives might apply to Rabin.

Assassination and Aftermath​

With public support for the peace process in peril, Rabin appeared at a large rally at Kings of Israel Square (later Rabin Square) in Tel Aviv on November 4, 1995. Warning that violence was undermining the foundations of Israeli democracy, Rabin thanked the crowd for demonstrating Israel’s commitment to peace and vowed to persist in his efforts to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian dispute. As he departed the stage, a young radical named Yigal Amir fired three shots at him. He was pronounced dead a short while later.

Rabin’s funeral was attended by more than 70 heads of state, including the leaders of Egypt and Jordan. U.S. President Bill Clinton bid an emotional farewell (“Shalom, chaver” — Goodbye, friend) to his partner in Mideast peacemaking. And Rabin’s granddaughter showed the world a softer side of the soldier-statesman.

But the outpouring of goodwill could not halt the shifting political winds. Peres assumed the premiership after Rabin’s death, but ongoing violence led to his narrow loss to Netanyahu in 1996. Rabin’s death ultimately proved to be a watershed moment in Israeli history, inflicting a deep wound on the Israeli peace camp and inaugurating a rightward shift in Israeli politics that has made the prospects of peace with the Palestinians seem more implausible than at any time since Rabin was at the helm.

 
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I think may be the calm before the storm. I believe it won’t be too much longer before Iran perpetrates an attack on the State of Israel.

Fortunately (using Sintigers lexicon) it will be against the State not against the Israeli people. Or the Jews.
What will it look like? I’m not sure but I hope no Arab Israeli or Israeli Arab pays the price. Jews only.

No doubt the more deaths and destruction the merrier the celebrations will be. All around the world there will be tears of joy and celebration.
If you think I’m wrong, just wait and see.

I’m sure there will be some private celebrations from the pro Palestinian posse from PRE as well. Not that they’d ever admit it. They wouldn’t want to be accused of being racists or antisemitism.
Just a quiet clinking of wine glasses…l’chaim

Just wait a little longer….. it will happen
 

I’m betting there are quite a few on PRE who haven’t the wherewithal to read this article.​

Victim blamingng is a crime to so many progressives. Except when it comes to Jews​

Howard Jacobson


An old man sits amid the destruction on what’s left of a wall and lets the tears stream from his eyes. He seems not to have the strength to dry them. Maybe he means never to dry them. A woman clutches her head, not knowing which way to turn. She has lost her children. There is no one near to help her find them. She won’t find them. I don’t know that for sure but my fears for her authorise me to say it. We are in a world emptied of good fortune, never mind God, where children aren’t found and husbands and wives don’t come back.

I turn off the television. My wife is out with friends. Alone, at my weakest, I let my own tears flow. They are a Jew’s tears but they are all I have.


And these are Gazans I am weeping for. For all I know, they were dancing in these now ruined streets when pictures of butchered Israelis went around the world. For all I know, they are crying today for terrorists – perhaps their own children or brothers – who didn’t make it back to boast of the number of Israelis they had killed. And it’s very likely that they taught their children from the cradle to despise all Jews, for that was no occasional, skin-deep animosity enacted in southern Israel last week. I am sorrowing for an old man and a distraught mother who think I am an animal and that my children are animals, too.

I am sorrowing for an old man and a distraught mother who think I am an animal and that my children are animals too
But for the very reason that I am not an animal I can see them only as people with feelings like my own. Grief is grief. Fear is fear. What we share we should not scorn. The day after tomorrow I might feel differently. But the time we give to let pity breathe is one of the measures of being civilised. To everything a season. To everyone a time to mourn


And the day after tomorrow, sure enough, an educated Gazan woman tries my humanity to its limits when she assures Newsnight that “Maybe Hamas killed Israeli soldiers,” but shrugs aside the suggestion they killed anyone else. She shakes her head. “No, we do not kill.” It’s impossible to know whether she is afraid to admit the truth or simply does not believe it. Little wonder. It does, after all, beggar the imagination that men could have done what those men did. “Ay, in the catalogue ye go for men,” Macbeth tells the murderers he has hired to kill Banquo, “as … mongrels, spaniels, curs … and demi-wolves, are clept all by the name of dogs.” Who but a demi-wolf would tear the life out of sleeping babies? Not even if those babies are Jews? Not even if they illegally occupy Palestinian land? Now there you have me.

What we don’t know about the education of a terrorist we can guess. But those in European capitals who celebrated the slaughter of Jews of all ages present a greater challenge to comprehension. How does a feminist put aside all she believes to cheer on a rapist? Is rape in one cause allowably different from rape in another? How many lecturers in human rights partied through the night after being shown the footage of Israelis denied their right to live?

That there was no pause even for provisional pity among the progressive supporters of Hamas in the west is scarcely less shocking than the pitiless acts themselves. Allow the fallacious narrative that Zionists dropped out of a clear blue sky to occupy someone else’s country, and you would still expect some inhalation of breath, some space for shock or sorrow, some admission that when they shouted, “From the river to the sea, Palestine shall be free”, even the most fervent anti-Zionists never envisaged freedom-taking in quite so bloody a form. But no. Ere yet that blood had dried, the victims of this unimaginable horror were normalised into burglars who had broken into someone else’s house and got what they deserved. Hard cheese. If you don’t want to be cut down at a music festival, opined one Soas-educated scholar, how about, “don’t have musical festivals on stolen land?”


To which I am not going to answer – if you don’t want your country reduced to rubble, how about not slaughtering teenagers at a rave or babies in their beds? Just because you were dancing on my grave yesterday, I will not dance on yours today.

But here’s something that puzzles me: is not victim-blaming counted among the worst of crimes wherever courses on faith and diversity, race and ethnicity, feminist philosophy and so on are taught. Or is victim-blaming an academic luxury not afforded to Jews? Israelis, do I mean? I understand the distinction. The separation between Israel and Jews is fundamental to anti-Zionist discourse. Anti-Semitic, I am assured repeatedly, is the last thing anti-Zionists are.

But understand that the sight of Israelis who just happen to be Jews being manhandled into cars and driven away into captivity stirs memories of events that Jews hoped never to be caught up in again. One of the elderly Israeli hostages who just happens to be Jewish is a peacenik who lived in a kibbutz close to Gaza and ferried sick Gazans to hospitals in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv. He thought they were his friends. The experience of friends turning on you the minute a pogrom gets under way is also burned into the minds of Jews.

“Never again,” the world said after the death camps were liberated. But here that “never” is once more returned in all its crimson glory.

My father, who was not an active Zionist, maintained that since Jews would never be safe, we should look to Israel as our lifeboat. The bitter irony is that the more unsafe in Israel we feel, the more we need it. That we have to fight to the death for its survival should surprise no one. There is a much used Yiddish word, rachmones. It means pity. How not to forgo rachmones while fighting to the death to hold on to it would try the wisdom of Solomon. But trying the wisdom of Solomon is something in which Jews are well versed.

 
It'll definitely happen Willo - Iran and it's proxies are becoming stronger and they won't lie still for too long which is why peace negotiations and settlement agreements need to happen asap. The US and the West need to reign in Israel and they need to sit down with the heads of Iran, Saudi Arabia, China and Russia to draw up a plan before it's too late. Russia and China will then need to reign in Iran and it's proxies.
 
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It'll definitely happen Willo - Iran and it's proxies are becoming stronger and they won't lie still for too long which is why peace negotiations and settlement agreements need to happen asap. The US and the West need to reign in Israel and they need to sit down with the heads of Iran, Saudi Arabia, China and Russia to draw up a plan before it's too late. Russia and China will then need to reign in Iran and it's proxies.
Something needs to be done urgently.
This will get out of hand and escalate very quickly. The result will be a massive death toll on more innocents
 
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