Nick Vlastuin

[Merveille]

Re: Game plan analysis 2017 - rewind, Round 6 Adelaide

Yeah, that's fair Mervs. Although not having a second ruck didn't really hurt us that much against Port despite Ryder killing us in the HO. Against the Swans we just didn't seem to get numbers at the fall of the ball as much as we seem to do most games now, kicks up the line to half-forward were getting picked off by the Swans talls though. We just seemed flat the whole second half of that game - no run. Unlike against Port.

Maybe they actually have learned from that with a more 'keep attacking' attitude late in games. They were certainly still trying to score late against Port and but for Castagna's weird moment late could have easiy won by 4 goals going away..
Was a good sign re their mind-set..

 

[Scoop]

Re: Game plan analysis 2017 - rewind, Round 6 Adelaide

Vlastuin is perfect trade bait. Would ship off for a second rounder next year.

Give a club Vlastuin for a third rounder this year and next year. Points for Naish and another pick inside 50 next year.

He doesn't have a spot in this side at full strength unless we give him McIntosh's role. Fighting for the same role.

 

[AngryAnt]

Re: Game plan analysis 2017 - rewind, Round 6 Adelaide

Maybe they actually have learned from that with a more 'keep attacking' attitude late in games. They were certainly still trying to score late against Port and but for Castagna's weird moment late could have easiy won by 4 goals going away..
Was a good sign re their mind-set..

Great point. Certainly we've seen a growth in belief in the last few weeks. I certainly feel much happier watching them attack right to the end of the game than slowing it down...

 

[lukeanddad]

Re: Game plan analysis 2017 - rewind, Round 6 Adelaide

Vlastuin is perfect trade bait. Would ship off for a second rounder next year.

Give a club Vlastuin for a third rounder this year and next year. Points for Naish and another pick inside 50 next year.

He doesn't have a spot in this side at full strength unless we give him McIntosh's role. Fighting for the same role.

I am always interested in your perspective, but I do have some observations.

1 Vlaus is in our best 10 when he is in and fit. Perhaps you disagree?
2 Not many clubs willingly trade out top 10s. T-Hunt was not best 22 and I reckon Grigg/Houli were at the bottom quartile for Carlton/Ess when we got 'em.

It seems like a big loss to me. He is clearly superior to Mac, but even if they're both best 22, one of them may be moveable to the wing.

 

[AngryAnt]

Re: Game plan analysis 2017 - rewind, Round 6 Adelaide

Love Vlastuin, but I take the point that you have to give something of value to get something.

 

[Scoop]

Re: Game plan analysis 2017 - rewind, Round 6 Adelaide

I am always interested in your perspective, but I do have some observations.

1 Vlaus is in our best 10 when he is in and fit. Perhaps you disagree?
2 Not many clubs willingly trade out top 10s. T-Hunt was not best 22 and I reckon Grigg/Houli were at the bottom quartile for Carlton/Ess when we got 'em.

It seems like a big loss to me. He is clearly superior to Mac, but even if they're both best 22, one of them may be moveable to the wing.

Good questions both of them.

1 Vlaus is in our best 10 when he is in and fit. Perhaps you disagree?

Really tough question. What does best mean? Most important to our game plan is how I judge it. Our most important four are givens, Martin, Rance, Cotch and Jack.

Now it gets tricky. I'd have Nank, Grimes, Astbury all more crucial to structure and game plan, we would find it hard to win without any of them for long stretches. That's seven.

Now we have Presita & Caddy. The roles they play are so important. That's 9.

What is our game plan built around right now? Pace. That gives us Rioli, Butler, Castagna, Bolton/Stengle and Menadue. Would you drop any of them right now so Vlastuin gets in? I wouldn't. That's 14-15 blokes that get a gig before him.

What's left? Grigg, Lambert, Houli and Short. They run. They link, they find the footy more than Vlasutin. They are safe.

McIntosh or Vlastuin. That's how I have him outside our top 10. Easily. He doesn't add pace, run or carry. A back that doesn't run. Surplus to needs with little improvement left.


2 Not many clubs willingly trade out top 10s. T-Hunt was not best 22 and I reckon Grigg/Houli were at the bottom quartile for Carlton/Ess when we got 'em.

We got Grigg and Houli when we shouldn't have. They were great pieces of business that we got virtually for nothing. Hunt was signed as depth, nothing more.
They key to trading is knowing when to offload. At Richmond we hold on for far too long. We missed Conca for a second rounder years ago. At one stage Batchelor may have fetched you a third. We got rid of Tambling at exactly the right time. We need to do the same with Vlastuin. Get some points to make suer Naish is cheap and get a third rounder in a strong draft next year that you give yourself a chance to get a second round talent.

I'd be trying to do the same with Miles this year. Just get a fourth this year. Points for Naish.

 

[lukeanddad]

Re: Game plan analysis 2017 - rewind, Round 6 Adelaide

Good questions both of them.

1 Vlaus is in our best 10 when he is in and fit. Perhaps you disagree?

Really tough question. What does best mean? Most important to our game plan is how I judge it. Our most important four are givens, Martin, Rance, Cotch and Jack.

Now it gets tricky. I'd have Nank, Grimes, Astbury all more crucial to structure and game plan, we would find it hard to win without any of them for long stretches. That's seven.

Now we have Presita & Caddy. The roles they play are so important. That's 9.

What is our game plan built around right now? Pace. That gives us Rioli, Butler, Castagna, Bolton/Stengle and Menadue. Would you drop any of them right now so Vlastuin gets in? I wouldn't. That's 14-15 blokes that get a gig before him.

What's left? Grigg, Lambert, Houli and Short. They run. They link, they find the footy more than Vlasutin. They are safe.

McIntosh or Vlastuin. That's how I have him outside our top 10. Easily. He doesn't add pace, run or carry. A back that doesn't run. Surplus to needs with little improvement left.


2 Not many clubs willingly trade out top 10s. T-Hunt was not best 22 and I reckon Grigg/Houli were at the bottom quartile for Carlton/Ess when we got 'em.

We got Grigg and Houli when we shouldn't have. They were great pieces of business that we got virtually for nothing. Hunt was signed as depth, nothing more.
They key to trading is knowing when to offload. At Richmond we hold on for far too long. We missed Conca for a second rounder years ago. At one stage Batchelor may have fetched you a third. We got rid of Tambling at exactly the right time. We need to do the same with Vlastuin. Get some points to make suer Naish is cheap and get a third rounder in a strong draft next year that you give yourself a chance to get a second round talent.

I'd be trying to do the same with Miles this year. Just get a fourth this year. Points for Naish.

Pretty compelling. Can't argue with the logic. Having said that, I hope Vlaus comes back and kills it for the next 8-10 weeks

 

[tigerlove]

Re: Game plan analysis 2017 - rewind, Round 6 Adelaide

I still like to think Vlastuin has much more to give than he has so far in his career. But maybe he hasn't.

 

[easy_tiger]

Re: Game plan analysis 2017 - rewind, Round 6 Adelaide

Vlastuin is perfect trade bait. Would ship off for a second rounder next year.

Give a club Vlastuin for a third rounder this year and next year. Points for Naish and another pick inside 50 next year.

He doesn't have a spot in this side at full strength unless we give him McIntosh's role. Fighting for the same role.

no way. entering his prime, tough as hell, and just before he done his shoulder, was fulfilling his promise.

I dont think he'll be a super star. But could easy do an Easton Wood in a final series.

 

[RoarEmotion]

Re: Game plan analysis 2017 - rewind, Round 6 Adelaide

Agree with easy. He was winning contests and rebounding vs bulldogs before he did his shoulder. If he can make this his minimum will be pretty tough customer as already has proven he doesn't lose many one on ones.

 

[Scoop]

Re: Game plan analysis 2017 - rewind, Round 6 Adelaide

no way. entering his prime, tough as hell, and just before he done his shoulder, was fulfilling his promise.

I dont think he'll be a super star. But could easy do an Easton Wood in a final series.

Ok, who does he replace?

 

[tigersnake]

Re: Game plan analysis 2017 - rewind, Round 6 Adelaide

Ok, who does he replace?

Marcov. Still remember Vlas had a blistering first Q the game he went down, a belter. Been solid, but steadily lifting a notch or two IMO. I appreciate many of your arguments though.

 

[Brodders17]

Re: Game plan analysis 2017 - rewind, Round 6 Adelaide

Marcov. Still remember Vlas had a blistering first Q the game he went down, a belter. Been solid, but steadily lifting a notch or two IMO. I appreciate many of your arguments though.

Marcov is keeping Houli's spot warm.

it is an interesting point Scoop raises. Do we want a not tall, not quick, not constant running half back flanker? if he can keep the form he did show for that quarter then yes he is probably worth the spot but if he drops off a bit then the run we lose will hurt.
ill probably change my mind tomorrow cos i do like him but it might be worth seeing if there is any interest.

 

[tigersnake]

Re: Game plan analysis 2017 - rewind, Round 6 Adelaide

Marcov is keeping Houli's spot warm.

it is an interesting point Scoop raises. Do we want a not tall, not quick, not constant running half back flanker? if he can keep the form he did show for that quarter then yes he is probably worth the spot but if he drops off a bit then the run we lose will hurt.
ill probably change my mind tomorrow cos i do like him but it might be worth seeing if there is any interest.

don't disagree. anything is for sale at the right price, except Dusty, Jack, Cotchy, Rance and all the young players ;D

The point is fair enough. I reckon you're talking him down a bit though, been building as a smart, strong marking leader. Might not quite step up to elite and might be time to sell, but I can also see him being a big game stalwart, who knows?

 

[AngryAnt]

Re: Game plan analysis 2017 - rewind, Round 6 Adelaide

Marcov is keeping Houli's spot warm.

it is an interesting point Scoop raises. Do we want a not tall, not quick, not constant running half back flanker? if he can keep the form he did show for that quarter then yes he is probably worth the spot but if he drops off a bit then the run we lose will hurt.
ill probably change my mind tomorrow cos i do like him but it might be worth seeing if there is any interest.

Scoop's point is good. You trade something of value out that won't hurt you too much to lose. Something Richmond hasn't been that good at recently, Deledio excepted. So if we assume Vlas is a running half back, is that something we can afford to lose? Probably yes.

 

[Scoop]

Re: Game plan analysis 2017 - rewind, Round 6 Adelaide

Marcov. Still remember Vlas had a blistering first Q the game he went down, a belter. Been solid, but steadily lifting a notch or two IMO. I appreciate many of your arguments though.

I don't disagree with the Markov call. But we are taking out player 22 for Vlastuin.

Shows he sits well outside of our top 10.

 

[AngryAnt]

Re: Game plan analysis 2017 - rewind, Round 6 Adelaide

My lesson from this thread is be careful about your last sentence as the thread becomes about that rather than what you actually wanted to talk about.

Or may the the rest of it wasn't that interesting. :blah

 

[tigersnake]

Re: Game plan analysis 2017 - rewind, Round 6 Adelaide

I don't disagree with the Markov call. But we are taking out player 22 for Vlastuin.

Shows he sits well outside of our top 10.

I thought that as soon as I wrote it 8-. I disagree though on the not top 10 call. He might not be, but he might be. Everything is all steak and beer at the moment, but that can change, and as I said, before the injury he was top 10, so why isn't he now when he hasn't played? at least partially a function of nice shiny stuff in front of us.

 

[tigersnake]

Re: Game plan analysis 2017 - rewind, Round 6 Adelaide

Vlastuin is perfect trade bait. Would ship off for a second rounder next year.

Give a club Vlastuin for a third rounder this year and next year. Points for Naish and another pick inside 50 next year.

He doesn't have a spot in this side at full strength unless we give him McIntosh's role. Fighting for the same role.

I reckon you're underrating him a bit. second and a third, could be wrong, but it strengthens your position.

 

[Leysy Days]

Re: Game plan analysis 2017 - rewind, Round 6 Adelaide

Great convo.

Scoop is dead right in the points he raises. And all things equal on the flag clock it would be right to shop him.

The only poser. We have what, a 3 year window with our foot just planted in it.

Would we give someone, that can make an impact and is up to the level now, especially if injuries hit, even in a very big game, for a pick or two that won't come to fruition until after said window.

Is it the right time to trade out for non premium picks?

Not sure of the answer - just throwing another layer to the topic out there.