Mark Harvey Sacked- Official | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Mark Harvey Sacked- Official

tiger12 said:
I know it's a professional caper, but coaches need to show loyalty to the club and players. Wallace, Thompson, not really men of great integrity. Lyon is in danger of being cast in the same mould. I wouldn't want Hardwick to walk. Somehow I think our bloke is made of the right stuff.
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If he gives us two flags and an era like Geelong is having he can walk where ever he wants but until then I reckon he's here for the long haul.
 
tiger12 said:
I know it's a professional caper, but coaches need to show loyalty to the club and players. Wallace, Thompson, not really men of great integrity. Lyon is in danger of being cast in the same mould. I wouldn't want Hardwick to walk. Somehow I think our bloke is made of the right stuff.
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It's a changed world. Clubs don't show loyalty to coaches (have they really ever?), coaches don't show loyalty to clubs, players don't show loyalty to clubs and vice versa. Pretty simply, when money becomes a primary factor in any sport, then the values will change. Everyone has a price. I just don't know too many people who would knock back a $4mill deal, do you? Who's to say Hardwick wouldn't walk if an offer too good to refuse came up? Everyone has a price.
 
GoodOne said:
It's a changed world. Clubs don't show loyalty to coaches (have they really ever?), coaches don't show loyalty to clubs, players don't show loyalty to clubs and vice versa. Pretty simply, when money becomes a primary factor in any sport, then the values will change. Everyone has a price. I just don't know too many people who would knock back a $4mill deal, do you? Who's to say Hardwick wouldn't walk if an offer too good to refuse came up? Everyone has a price.
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Understand.

However, I think players are more loyal than is perceived (unless, off course you get an offer like Scully). Unfortunately, clubs can't be as loyal to players with lists of only 40 that need to be regenerated each year. Moreover, if you indicate an intention to be a career coach (as Lyon has, and most do as well), I believe you need to show more character than Lyon has. If Lyon doesn't succeed at Freo he can kiss his coaching career goodbye. It would be a matter of once bitten, twice shy. The difference in monetary terms between what St Kilda would've paid to Freo's offer would not have been life changing; yet, if he doesn't coach beyond his new contract it will be. I for one hope he fails, and with Freo the odds are he will.
 
jb03 said:
You guys damning Lyon should read Rohan COnnolly's piece today in the Age.
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So because Connolly says it it's true? He's as big a flog as most of the other footy journos.
 
GoodOne said:
If there was a get out clause in Lyon's contract and the club was adamant they wanted to keep him, why would you wait and open up an opportunity to lose him? There was plenty going on around other clubs sacking coaches, I would have thought you'd try and shore up a new contract as soon as possible. Saints management plain and simply stuffed up (assuming they wanted 100% Lyon to stay).
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The get out clause is the key. If that wasn't there they were well within their rights to wait. But with the get out clause, there is no doubt they dithered if in fact they did want to keep Lyon.
 
tiger12 said:
Understand.

However, I think players are more loyal than is perceived (unless, off course you get an offer like Scully).
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I think the hordes of cash being thrown around is starting to show otherwise. We'll certainly get a better picture once free agency kicks in.

tiger12 said:
Unfortunately, clubs can't be as loyal to players with lists of only 40 that need to be regenerated each year.
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What about loyal to coaches?

tiger12 said:
Moreover, if you indicate an intention to be a career coach (as Lyon has, and most do as well), I believe you need to show more character than Lyon has.
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What does 'career' coach mean? It's pretty simple in this caper, if you succeed you last longer than if you don't. There's no such thing as a 'career' coach in modern AFL.

tiger12 said:
If Lyon doesn't succeed at Freo he can kiss his coaching career goodbye. It would be a matter of once bitten, twice shy.
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Sure, no different to him failing in the next 4 years at the Saints. Nothing to do with being once bitten, twice shy.

tiger12 said:
The difference in monetary terms between what St Kilda would've paid to Freo's offer would not have been life changing; yet, if he doesn't coach beyond his new contract it will be.
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Frankly I don't think any coach who has been in the system for as long as Lyon has in the modern AFL needs to worry about an event being 'life changing'. I don't think money was Lyon's predominant driver, I am sure it was a factor though. I tend to think that Lyon's chances of success at the Saints would be alot less than at Freo. Saints have thrown all their eggs in the one basket over the last few years to get that premiership. Fremantle have done alot more building of younger players and looks to have a stronger list fo future years to me.

tiger12 said:
I for one hope he fails, and with Freo the odds are he will.
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A bit personal there. Why would one hope so badly for someone to fail? I think you're wrong. I don't think Lyon will fail, I think his chances of the ultimate success are greater than that of Harvey as coach. Of course all this is futile discussion withut defining what 'success' and 'failure' means in this instance.

I reckon Lyon had to put up with enough off-field dramas during his reign at the Saints. Why does he owe anyone anything at the Saints? Their administration and recruiting has been a rabble. He probably couldn't get out of there quick enough.
 
Quite a number of untried coaches have landed jobs. Woah.

Might see Eade struggle to land a job with rumours of St K enquiring about Scott Waters another assistant
 
GoodOne said:
I reckon Lyon had to put up with enough off-field dramas during his reign at the Saints. Why does he owe anyone anything at the Saints? Their administration and recruiting has been a rabble. He probably couldn't get out of there quick enough.
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This, no doubt, was the key. Lyon would have been better served, imo, if he'd quit the Saints saying as much and then accepting the Freo job. How Freo managed the transition is for them. The way Lyon was party to the change doesn't look good. Anyway, *smile* the Saints and Dockers! Go Tiges!!
 
tiger12 said:
This, no doubt, was the key. Lyon would have been better served, imo, if he'd quit the Saints saying as much and then accepting the Freo job. How Freo managed the transition is for them. The way Lyon was party to the change doesn't look good. Anyway, *smile* the Saints and Dockers! Go Tiges!!
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So Lyon should have said that he'd had enough of the off-field dramas and that the Saints administration and reruiting was a rabble? And then accepted the Freo job? Honestly I can't see how that would have endeared Lyon to anyone. I do agree though, who really cares, *smile* em all.
 
GoodOne said:
So why complain when they lost out? It was their decision to wait another 5+ months to come to the party. Indecision is bad management. Saints only have themselves to blame.
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So why should St. Kilda have given him what he wanted when he didn't deserve it?
 
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