It's time - Jack into the middle

[AngryAnt]

They can try it of course.

Be interesting to see if it ever happens.

 

[kyuss]

I can't see any reason to play him any differently than we did last year. he was all over the ground, kicked plenty of goals and was AA. I think people are just getting bored. Bring on the season.

 

[Tigerfan]

First I need to acknowledge Spooker, who has been advocating this move for a while now.

I've been saying all summer that we're light on for grunt and Maric is on his last legs.

Unless Conca seriously steps up and Townsend proves to match Jacko in endeavour as well as size, we are going to need a containment policy in the middle.

This means degrading the opposition clearance. Effective, but we will leak inside 50s which is never ideal. We depend far too much on Rance and Vlastuin as it is.

Unless ...

Jack goes in. Doesn't have to be all game, just for extended creative sorties. When we want to make the play. Or arrest opposition momentum. We have Griff, Ty and McBean looming up forward along with Deledio, Lennon, Lloyd and Martin in highly skilled support.

Surely we can release Jack for ruck roving assignments for 40% of the time.

The thing about Jack is he is sublime in heavy traffic. I can see him releasing the likes of Shed and Cotch with a deft tap here, a canny block there. He is just so smart. Plus, he cops intense opp focus which takes away from prime extractors Cotch and Miles.

His field kicking is elite. Elite. He is different to Richo in that he wouldn't be able to find space like he did. But Richo didn't have Jack's uncanny read of the ground ball.

The best part? Jack can even give Ivan a chop out from time to time. "Need me to go third man up?" "Want me to sit on this tiring ruck's head?"

The beauty of all this is Jack is large enough to be a strong presence in the pack and take opportunistic hitouts. He is small and smart enough to win some contested footy and help his midfield comrades win theirs.

The move requires innovation and vision. Not sure if Dimma has enough funk in him.

Thats innovation

 

[Coburgtiger]

Carter, you seem quite certain Griffiths is a semi decent forward. He's yet to show that at any level.

 

[Sintiger]

Carter, you seem quite certain Griffiths is a semi decent forward. He's yet to show that at any level.

Not consistently but I think people are forgetting how good he was the last 7-8 rounds of 2014

 

[The_General]

So according to you and others we will have a one man forward line in 2016.

I think Vickery and Griff are unreliable but we also have Deledio, Lennon, McBean, Lloyd, Martin, Edwards, Cotchin, Short, Rioli, McKenzie.

You can plan for Jack if he is just roaming high.

You cannot cover him every time if he's been given a semi-permanent midfield opponent.

It would mess with opp rotations no end.

That's why it's not much point having a conversation with you carter. I don't recall anyone saying we want a one man forward line.

What we're saying is, he's our best and most reliable forward, in a team that is notorious for not kicking high scores. It's fine to bring Jack out for cameo's, but until we have viable options up forward we're gonna need Jack there more often than not.

And please, please, please, if you want to be taken seriously, don't throw names like McKenzie, Short and Rioli as forwardline contributors like that. None of them have played an AFL game, one is a rookie listed player, one can't run for more than a quarter and the other is a first year player. They are the very definition of unreliable right now. Until we've seen them consistently kicking goals at AFL level, they aren't the hopes to our forwardline deficiencies.

The last thing I think we'd want to do is put someone who's (to my limited knowledge) not shown any real skills as a roving midfielder in his time at the club, in the middle of the ground where it's toughest and ask him to put his head over the ball. Not because he wouldn't, but because we can't afford to let him get crunched and sit out games through injury. If he's doing that as part of his "normal role", then we wear it. But not as an inside mid.

 

[Carter]

That's why it's not much point having a conversation with you carter. I don't recall anyone saying we want a one man forward line.

What we're saying is, he's our best and most reliable forward, in a team that is notorious for not kicking high scores. It's fine to bring Jack out for cameo's, but until we have viable options up forward we're gonna need Jack there more often than not.

And please, please, please, if you want to be taken seriously, don't throw names like McKenzie, Short and Rioli as forwardline contributors like that. None of them have played an AFL game, one is a rookie listed player, one can't run for more than a quarter and the other is a first year player. They are the very definition of unreliable right now. Until we've seen them consistently kicking goals at AFL level, they aren't the hopes to our forwardline deficiencies.

The last thing I think we'd want to do is put someone who's (to my limited knowledge) not shown any real skills as a roving midfielder in his time at the club, in the middle of the ground where it's toughest and ask him to put his head over the ball. Not because he wouldn't, but because we can't afford to let him get crunched and sit out games through injury. If he's doing that as part of his "normal role", then we wear it. But not as an inside mid.

I try to look forward. Short will impress this season, as will McKenzie.

You are basing you're analysis on a freeze frame of October 2015. We are now four months on and counting. If you want to be taken seriously, have a proper look at our young players :hihi

And finally, people seem to want to wrap Jack in cotton wool by leaving him forward.

Whaaaat?

The only place on the ground where you get crunched repeatedly from behind? Gimme a spell.

Jack has shown time and again that he is a durable player.

In the words of the great Mike Whitney, who dares wins.

RFC hasn't dared for a while. We're still an immature club that seems happy to be competitive. Hopefully the onfield innovation will come.

 

[TigerMasochist]

And finally, people seem to want to wrap Jack in cotton wool by leaving him forward

Pretty sure most of us understand that Jaaack has been playing a roaming forward role and sneaking up to the mid area in recent times and are comfortable with him in that role.
There's only a couple of excitable experts that suddenly seem to want Jaaack to replace Snipper under the packs.

 

[Carter]

Pretty sure most of us understand that Jaaack has been playing a roaming forward role and sneaking up to the mid area in recent times and are comfortable with him in that role.
There's only a couple of excitable experts that suddenly seem to want Jaaack to replace Snipper under the packs.

roaming is different to clearance rotation, but yeah, go for it TM

 

[TigerMasochist]

roaming is different to clearance rotation, but yeah, go for it TM

Yep Derrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Jaaack's an elite key forward, who will roam up the ground n link up n set up play at times, he may even scrounge around the outer regions of the midfield packs at times. He is not n will not become a clearance midfielder as some so desperately seem to wish for to justify their thought bubbles.

 

[Carter]

Yep Derrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Jaaack's an elite key forward, who will roam up the ground n link up n set up play at times, he may even scrounge around the outer regions of the midfield packs at times. He is not n will not become a clearance midfielder as some so desperately seem to wish for to justify their thought bubbles.

blah blah. keep living in the past.

i agree it probably won't happen with Hardwick.

we probably won't finish top four either (and we should)

 

[The_General]

I'd not waste my time TM, when it comes to Carter's opinions, he clearly becomes incapable of rational argument.

Once again, he's taken one phrase in a long post as his focus and basis for future conversation, ignoring the rest of it.
Too difficult to have a conversation like that.

 

[Freame Team]

I lurk on this site a bit however don't generally post due to a lack of anything to contribute..

Sometimes there is a frustrating amount of vitriol but I am a Tiger tragic.

I am however loving this thread. It has been five pages of considered, knowledgable, respectful and articulate opinion.

Thanks

 

[Coburgtiger]

Not consistently but I think people are forgetting how good he was the last 7-8 rounds of 2014

I'm not, he played above the expectation, but that was already extremely low. He was pretty serviceable. In addition, he was playing mainly as a ruck/on the ball. Not a forward.

 

[Carter]

Griffiths goes for the air ball but Vickery hangs back too often.

Vickery nails his shots, Griff fades to the right.

They both need to improve and I think Ben's problems are easier to address.

 

[mrposhman]

Griffiths goes for the air ball but Vickery hangs back too often.

Vickery nails his shots, Griff fades to the right.

They both need to improve and I think Ben's problems are easier to address.

Pretty sure one of them will not be at the club next year. I suspect one will be used as part of a trade for either JOM or Prestia.

Personally reckon you are wrong on Jack, he needs to stay as that roaming high forward and competing where is of most value. We will get plenty of improvement elsewhere in the team this year, there should be improvements from C Ellis, B Ellis, McIntosh, Grimes, Vlastuin, Lennon, Menadue, Drummond etc. Add to that we brought in Moore and Townsend, we need one of them to step up this year and replace Cotch in and under and release Cotch to hopefully recover that form that he showed back in 2012, thats the real improvement and probably the biggest improvement that we need to see.

 

[Carter]

Pretty sure one of them will not be at the club next year. I suspect one will be used as part of a trade for either JOM or Prestia.

Personally reckon you are wrong on Jack, he needs to stay as that roaming high forward and competing where is of most value. We will get plenty of improvement elsewhere in the team this year, there should be improvements from C Ellis, B Ellis, McIntosh, Grimes, Vlastuin, Lennon, Menadue, Drummond etc. Add to that we brought in Moore and Townsend, we need one of them to step up this year and replace Cotch in and under and release Cotch to hopefully recover that form that he showed back in 2012, thats the real improvement and probably the biggest improvement that we need to see.

Good post but that last one is a massive if, Posh.

The best way to release Cotch is via Jack. No one else can do it (this year).

 

[Ral]

Im happy with his role as a high half forward without exposing his body to the crash and bash of the midfield trenches.

 

[mrposhman]

Good post but that last one is a massive if, Posh.

The best way to release Cotch is via Jack. No one else can do it (this year).

Jack is also a massive IF. You seem to be stating that its a certainty that he will monster being an inside midfielder but there's no proof of that, there is proof that he is a superstar forward. I would rather we go with what we have planned and thats Moore / Townsend to try and release Cotch.

 

[tigerman]

I lurk on this site a bit however don't generally post due to a lack of anything to contribute..

Sometimes there is a frustrating amount of vitriol but I am a Tiger tragic.

I am however loving this thread. It has been five pages of considered, knowledgable, respectful and articulate opinion.

Thanks

Welcome Freame Team, what's your thoughts about Jack?

I reckon Jack and Ty are going to tear the competition a new one this season, i've got them down for a 110 plus goals between them.
Carn the Tiges!!!!