It's time - Jack into the middle

[Leysy Days]

Personally I think Jack is of most benefit to us floating around the forward line and leading up to the wings and having an impact in the middle of the ground.

If your going to do that why not then utilise him where the ball is most, where winning it is vital whilst also limiting his running.

The 3rd quarters of the Carlton and North finals showed how imperative the ability to inject some size and class to our clearance combination is leysy would have thought.

 

[Tigers of Old]

If your going to do that why not then utilise him where the ball is most, where winning it is vital whilst also limiting his running.

The 3rd quarters of the Carlton and North finals showed how imperative the ability to inject some size and class to our clearance combination is leysy would have thought.

I'm hoping McIntosh/CEllis/Conca will be the solution to that.

 

[Leysy Days]

Jack has more chance than those three combined to heavily influence a game from the middle in a big match this year ILO ToO.

All will play there best footy outside that clearance area, with McIntosh and Ellis chances in time.

 

[St Kevin]

I think he needs to spend more of time there because he's so creative and instinctive but it'll probably require TV to be a bit more consistently dangerous up forward.

Same with Lids. He needs to push 35 goals.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Jack has more chance than those three combined to heavily influence a game from the middle in a big match this year ILO ToO.

All will play there best footy outside that clearance area, with McIntosh and Ellis chances in time.

Riewoldt's a gun for sure Daisy which we all know & no doubt he would have an influence wherever he plays.
However haven't seen enough of Jack in the centre in minor games against elite midfielders to pass judgement on the influence he might have in say a final against say a Fyfe.
He's our only proven forward & my gut feel is it would be robbing Peter to pay Paul.

 

[AngryAnt]

Reckon this is a furphy Antman. There will be 4 interchange players next year instead of 3. Meaning more time for players to rest.

The laws of the game committee have hardly gone in full boar on the interchange cap either. Will be 90 next year, add another four at each break that arent counted and each team can still have 102 rotations.

Players will cover more ground than ever this year ILO.

Fair point on the 4th player LD. It is one of the goals of the rule change to get fewer players around the ball, butyYou never know how these rules changes play out exactly until they are in effect, and then how coaches will adapt to them after a few months.

I don't see the break rotations as significant as the players have 5/20/5 minutes to rest over the breaks anyway. It'll come down to whether less frequent rotations/longer rests mean a continuation of the congested get players round the ball games that we have now or that the coaches will concede that part of the game to some extent and come up with other strategies.

Going back to Jack, definitely reckon he's got the skills to play mid at times in a game - whether that's the best place for him, not sure, but as others have said it's maybe a useful plan B.

 

[tigerman]

The occasional run in the midfield would be ok, but with Yarran and Corey Ellis's foot skills we would be best served if our best forward plays forward.

 

[achillesjones]

Hey Leysy and Co,
Oh Dearie me, as much as I love Jack (as a forward) he is not a Priddis, Mitchell or Kennedy. Nor, In Achilles' Humble Opinion will he ever be. These guys gut run both ways and have centre bounce aptitudes that Jack MAY or MAY NOT develop over a period of three or four years. Elite centre square work is a craft to be learned.

My questions...
1. Do we really want to fluff around with him with experimentation?
2. If he has the skills set, why didn't we turn to him in the elimination final against North?
3. If we take Jack out of our forward line, will we lose potency?
4. In which games has he shown any recent centre clearance prowess?

If I were an opposition coach and I saw Jack lining up in the centre I would play a burst runner who could run off him all day every day. Jack, with his agility and smarts can apply great defensive pressure to lumbering full backs and CHBs but holding any the above trio of elite midfielders?????

 

[casper68]

Hey Leysy and Co,
Oh Dearie me, as much as I love Jack (as a forward) he is not a Priddis, Mitchell or Kennedy. Nor, In Achilles' Humble Opinion will he ever be. These guys gut run both ways and have centre bounce aptitudes that Jack MAY or MAY NOT develop over a period of three or four years. Elite centre square work is a craft to be learned.

My questions...
1. Do we really want to fluff around with him with experimentation?
2. If he has the skills set, why didn't we turn to him in the elimination final against North?
3. If we take Jack out of our forward line, will we lose potency?
4. In which games has he shown any recent centre clearance prowess?

If I were an opposition coach and I saw Jack lining up in the centre I would play a burst runner who could run off him all day every day. Jack, with his agility and smarts can apply great defensive pressure to lumbering full backs and CHBs but holding any the above trio of elite midfielders?????

That elite midfielder would want to be a good defender when jack goes forward.

 

[Carter]

That elite midfielder would want to be a good defender when jack goes forward.

:clap

 

[TigerMasochist]

That elite midfielder would want to be a good defender when jack goes forward.

Nope. Teams just finger point a bit n a defender would pick Jaaack up on the transition, while the opp mid would play free while someone from our side went looking for him.
Don't mind Jaaack being used as a roaming forward, playing as high as about wing. Doing some link n set up work going deep to our other fwds.

Can't see Jaaack as some sort of regular beast contested ball winning mid. Pretty much played his entire career as an elite forward, n simply don't see him being instinctive enough around the ruck contests n barging around inside the stoppages. He could be one you get the ball out to from the initial stoppage, that would then utilize his skills n decision making to advantage as we've been doing a little bit already.

 

[Carter]

Nope. Teams just finger point a bit n a defender would pick Jaaack up on the transition, while the opp mid would play free while someone from our side went looking for him.

Hard to do in transition. Particularly with Cotch and Dusty going in and out.

Also, if we have two big guys forward already, you are stretching most teams with Jack roaming around.

 

[Rowdy]

For me it would be Mc Intosh in to the guts, jack to a wing/ very high 1/2 fwd

 

[The_General]

Rubbish, teams transition all the time. It's not that hard to find Reiwoldt heading back into the Forward line to match him up. He's a 6' 5" redhead! We'd have to send him back forward, otherwise, what's the point of putting him in the side?

It'd be harder to find the mid who is now going into the midfield.

For a team that's struggling to kick a winning score, taking our most dangerous KPF out of the forward line for anything other than cameos is silly. Griff and Vickery need to suddenly swallow Jesus juice to step up into the hole Jack would leave.

 

[Carter]

Rubbish, teams transition all the time. It's not that hard to find Reiwoldt heading back into the Forward line to match him up. He's a 6' 5" redhead! We'd have to send him back forward, otherwise, what's the point of putting him in the side?

It'd be harder to find the mid who is now going into the midfield.

For a team that's struggling to kick a winning score, taking our most dangerous KPF out of the forward line for anything other than cameos is silly. Griff and Vickery need to suddenly swallow Jesus juice to step up into the hole Jack would leave.

Nah. It is easy to defend against teams who pigeon hole their players in easy slots.

Imagine preparing for Riewoldt if he was both a mid and a forward.

You must select a backline that can handle him so you need three bigger guys if Griff and Vickery also play.

Then, if we slot Jack in the centre, there is immediately a mismatch, especially if Deledio takes that third tall defender.

So Lids gets active and works the guy around. There's shed and Lloyd down there too to keep the smaller defenders honest.

In comes Jack to the fat side on the break.

You cannot tell me he is covered every time.

Either he will get plenty of uncontested grabs or Vickery will get a shitload of Joe the gooses over the top.

Different body sizes, different positions. Hard to defend against.

 

[TigerMasochist]

Hard to do in transition. Particularly with Cotch and Dusty going in and out.

Also, if we have two big guys forward already, you are stretching most teams with Jack roaming around.

All teams constantly transition players or throw an extra backwards or forward at times to unsettle the mix n hopefully create a mis match no matter how temporary. We are generally playing Ty n Jaaack as our main big guys forward n float / rotate Griff n Ivvy through there as well. Stretch, or over stretch as you will, all sides do similar at different times during games.
Jaaacks the best suited tall to play a high roaming semi midfielder type role for us as he's an extremely smart n creative footballer. He's also our best forward by far, so we're always robbing Peter to pay Paul by using Jaaack to play an up ground role.
Guess the coaches theory is to try n gain maximum output or advantage by having an extremely flexible and creative forward system that is unable to be tied down because of it's variations. It hasn't quite clicked yet as the more regular forward personnel Vickery / Griffiths, Lloyd / Gordon / Lennon / Morris types in the forward line haven't quite provided the consistency hoped for in the past.

Jaaack, Vickery, Griff / Lids, Lennon, Dusty, Cotch, Shedda / Grigga, C Ellis, B Ellis, Lloyd, should be able to provide a consistent n dangerous n flexible forward half for us. Still leaves us the occasional pop ups of Yazz, Houli, KMac, Conca, Miles, Lambert n Maric who are capable of sneaking through a gap or into a hole n cooking a sausage.

 

[achillesjones]

That's it. The Masochist and the General have beaten me to it. By the time Jack moved forward, opposing defences would be well and truly covering him. It's not as if we have a scary array of other dangerous forwards to cover. When Jack is in front of goals he draws two defenders and that helps to make our other forwards effective.

 

[Carter]

That's it. The Masochist and the General have beaten me to it. By the time Jack moved forward, opposing defences would be well and truly covering him. It's not as if we have a scary array of other dangerous forwards to cover. When Jack is in front of goals he draws two defenders and that helps to make our other forwards effective.

So according to you and others we will have a one man forward line in 2016.

I think Vickery and Griff are unreliable but we also have Deledio, Lennon, McBean, Lloyd, Martin, Edwards, Cotchin, Short, Rioli, McKenzie.

You can plan for Jack if he is just roaming high.

You cannot cover him every time if he's been given a semi-permanent midfield opponent.

It would mess with opp rotations no end.

 

[casper68]

That's it. The Masochist and the General have beaten me to it. By the time Jack moved forward, opposing defences would be well and truly covering him. It's not as if we have a scary array of other dangerous forwards to cover. When Jack is in front of goals he draws two defenders and that helps to make our other forwards effective.

Have a look at the Hawthorn game from 2015 when Burgoyne gets the job of minding Jack in our forward 50.Yes Jack marks the ball and Burgoyne looks around pointing at his team mates.

 

[Elmer]

If they can try Rance in the middle they can try Jack.