It's time - Jack into the middle

[achillesjones]

Jack is just too slow to be playing in the middle. He can push up the ground as a forward because he uses his smarts and long leads to create space for himself but his leg speed is just not up to an on ball role imo.

Yep. That's it. It is a totally different skill set. Midfielders who cannot burst run repeatedly are quickly found out in today's game. I believe the game has evolved past the Diesel Williams style midfielder as the prolonged running both ways is now so essential. (Sam Mitchell being the exception to the rule...superstar footballer!) Hopefully we will develop some of our athletic recruits to fill the midfield vacancies.

 

[Carter]

Nah. Daniel Jackson was slow as.

Jack Riewoldt is a taller, smarter Jacko.

Don't forget we aren't crying out for a pack runner, but simply a big body.

Blocks, tackles, bumps, taps. Jack would excel at all these things and thats what we currently don't have.

Jack can win a JDM doing this and kicking 40 goals.

 

[achillesjones]

Jacko was one of the best runners at the club!

 

[Carter]

Jacko was one of the best runners at the club!

We're talking about burst running arent we? Jacko was treacle.

 

[Dev Tiger]

I think Jack can certainly play a similar role to Roughead at Hawthorn. If he can roll through the centre square on occasions through the year it will help if we need to do it like we did in the final against North last year. We are I believe still one A grade big bodied midfielder short of really contending. They are very difficult to get however so being able to rotate players like Jack and Vlaustin through the middle could definitely help. We don't want a repeat of the situation last year of having very limited options if Cotchin is being tagged out of the game.

 

[achillesjones]

We're talking about burst running arent we? Jacko was treacle.

OK I think we are talking about different running here. Jack R can do short bursts, but can you imagine him picking up Brent Harvey like Jacko used to do? That's what opposing coaches would do to Jack in the midfield. Run him into the ground. If there was ever a time to use Jack R in the midfield it would have been our last quarter against North, but the coaching staff knew that this is just not in Jack's bag of tricks. If you are in the midfield you have to be a sustained gut runner.

 

[Tigertough1974]

I think Jack can certainly play a similar role to Roughead at Hawthorn. If he can roll through the centre square on occasions through the year it will help if we need to do it like we did in the final against North last year. We are I believe still one A grade big bodied midfielder short of really contending. They are very difficult to get however so being able to rotate players like Jack and Vlaustin through the middle could definitely help. We don't want a repeat of the situation last year of having very limited options if Cotchin is being tagged out of the game.

Agree were 1-2 big bodied mid away from having a much better Mid brigade as do the coaches, hence Townsend and Moore coming in.... Jack will stay forward 50 and kick another 50+ in 2016...

 

[Carter]

OK I think we are talking about different running here. Jack R can do short bursts, but can you imagine him picking up Brent Harvey like Jacko used to do? That's what opposing coaches would do to Jack in the midfield. Run him into the ground. If there was ever a time to use Jack R in the midfield it would have been our last quarter against North, but the coaching staff knew that this is just not in Jack's bag of tricks. If you are in the midfield you have to be a sustained gut runner.

I'm saying that Jack R doesn't need to be able to run fast or hard I'm order to be that big bodied clearance support we need.

We could just play Jack at centre bounces or bring him into scrimmages if a game is bogged down and he would have a marked impact.

 

[Leysy Days]

No offense to any posters on here.

But Jack not having the attributes to play solid minutes in the midfield is ILHO absolute 100% bonafide drivel.

And wrong. ;D

 

[Baloo]

We've got the best Full Forward in the AFL about to reach his prime years. Why would we play him anywhere else?

With a functional forward line that will give Jack the space and opportunity to play one on one with his marker, he's unstoppable.

 

[Rfc4Ever]

Loved Jack's role in 2015.

Did move up the ground here and there but primarily fwd where he should be.

Happy with more of the same.

 

[tigersnake]

yeah i like Jack having stints in the middle, ah la Roughead, J Brown, Pavlich. The rare times he does do it, usually when we are really in the crap, he blitzes. I'd like to see it more often.

 

[Carter]

The issue at the heart of this is a weakness NM exposed on the biggest stage in September.

It was the third quarter and our midfield simply couldn't match their grunt. They got the ball out time and again and put us under enormous pressure.

It would've given the coaches nightmares. Dimma would be wondering how the hell his list became so toothless in clearances.

Of course, much of it begins with Maric. Heart and soul, but the harsh reality is he is lame.

There were no decent rucks to be had. So we went for a grunty mid and lost it at the finish line.

Then we went for untried grunt and got two players who have some size but are question marks at the level.

It's too easy to say let's leave Jack in the F50 and bask in his warm, fuzzy glow. How will the ball get down there?

Now that NM, and before that, Adelaide, exposed our soft underbelly other teams will look to exploit clearances and thus gain a decided advantage.

Yes, we will slingshot like we did last season. We are brilliant in transition. But that can't be the only plan. The opp will simply press hard or choke our own sparsely populated forward line for easy intercepts.

No, you need to be able to vary your body sizes at stoppages in this game. It clearly is a must have in the toolbox.

For all these reasons it is vital that Jack spends more time at centre bounces.

 

[jb03]

No offense to any posters on here.

But Jack not having the attributes to play solid minutes in the midfield is ILHO absolute 100% bonafide drivel.

And wrong. ;D

Perhaps the question is not could he play in the middle, but should he play in the middle.

 

[Coburgtiger]

We've got the best Full Forward in the AFL about to reach his prime years. Why would we play him anywhere else?

With a functional forward line that will give Jack the space and opportunity to play one on one with his marker, he's unstoppable.

This is the key isn't it.


Jack is the best Full Forward in the AFL. I literally would not pick any other full forward in the game ahead of him for my side.

The midfield is not our issue. Yes, we'd be better with a Jackson type who could play (Moore? Townsend? KMac? Hopefully). But our struggle still is and always has been our ease of scoring. We make it so difficult with the way we get the ball inside 50. We also usually play a 5 man forward line.

With an outnumbered forward line, and slow, indirect movement into the forward 50, we do not have a forward friendly game plan. We need opportunistic, smart, skillful and creative forwards who can also keep the ball inside fifty. Enter Jack.

We haven't (knock on all the wood - knock on a forest of wood) had to see what that forward line looks like without Jack. I'm tipping, not good. You would essentially be relying on Vickery to be the primary target when he should be playing ruck/fwd. And you would be relying on Griffiths to not kick the ball on ninety degree angles into his own face, when he should be playing basketball.

For those saying Riewoldt couldn't be a gun midfielder... he could, and would. He has the ability to make space that is 1 in a million in a quality player. He's Edwardes with composure, better field kicking, and size, although slightly slower (by footspeed only - and he's also no plodder). Thing is, Deledio and Martin would probably make pretty decent mids too (duuuuuuuuhhhhhh) and there's a reason we're playing them forward.

We need more quality forwards, not less, because we need to capitalise on crap. How many times have we seen Jack kick goals from the pockets with snaps on both feet from a set shot? How many forwards can do that reliably? That was a set play last year. Dimma loves to go to the pocket, and we have exactly one forward who can regularly capitalise on that PLUS provide defense pressure PLUS lead down the centre when required.

To get Jack out of the forward line to play mid, is robbing Peter, assaulting Steve, setting fire to Wendy and assassinating Kennedy to pay Paul.

 

[Carter]

This is the key isn't it.


Jack is the best Full Forward in the AFL. I literally would not pick any other full forward in the game ahead of him for my side.

The midfield is not our issue. Yes, we'd be better with a Jackson type who could play (Moore? Townsend? KMac? Hopefully). But our struggle still is and always has been our ease of scoring. We make it so difficult with the way we get the ball inside 50. We also usually play a 5 man forward line.

With an outnumbered forward line, and slow, indirect movement into the forward 50, we do not have a forward friendly game plan. We need opportunistic, smart, skillful and creative forwards who can also keep the ball inside fifty. Enter Jack.

We haven't (knock on all the wood - knock on a forest of wood) had to see what that forward line looks like without Jack. I'm tipping, not good. You would essentially be relying on Vickery to be the primary target when he should be playing ruck/fwd. And you would be relying on Griffiths to not kick the ball on ninety degree angles into his own face, when he should be playing basketball.

For those saying Riewoldt couldn't be a gun midfielder... he could, and would. He has the ability to make space that is 1 in a million in a quality player. He's Edwardes with composure, better field kicking, and size, although slightly slower (by footspeed only - and he's also no plodder). Thing is, Deledio and Martin would probably make pretty decent mids too (duuuuuuuuhhhhhh) and there's a reason we're playing them forward.

We need more quality forwards, not less, because we need to capitalise on crap. How many times have we seen Jack kick goals from the pockets with snaps on both feet from a set shot? How many forwards can do that reliably? That was a set play last year. Dimma loves to go to the pocket, and we have exactly one forward who can regularly capitalise on that PLUS provide defense pressure PLUS lead down the centre when required.

To get Jack out of the forward line to play mid, is robbing Peter, assaulting Steve, setting fire to Wendy and assassinating Kennedy to pay Paul.

No one is suggesting 100% time mid.

We have forwards coming through and remember that such a move for Jack means Marto and Lids forward more.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Perhaps the question is not could he play in the middle, but should he play in the middle.

Bingo jimbob.
Reckon Jack would have an impact in the middle but would he be more effective there or forward?

Personally I think Jack is of most benefit to us floating around the forward line and leading up to the wings and having an impact in the middle of the ground.
Effectively a traditional CHF.
Then Vickery/Griffiths/McBean.. can play out of the square. These players are far more comfortable on a straight lead than around the arc where as Jack is excellent as a lead up forward.
He's also an awesome field kick off both feet. Just about our best in the team. I'm no expert but that's where I'd use him most.

 

[Ripplestick]

He has visibly slimmed down even more this year, I understand endurance will be the focus with less interchange and think this is the reason he is leaner than ever. He might pop into the centre square occasionally but won't be a full time mid, having him, Lids and Yarran delivering inside 50 and zig zagging around will be big time headaches for opposition coaches. chuck in a resting midfielder such as Shedda, Cotch or Martin and two tall forwards and that's a dangerous mix.

A recent interview on the club website with one of the assistant coaches said something to the effect that we are looking to score 2 more goals a game and see this coming from increased forward pressure. They will want to add more zip to the forward line which is where Rioli or Short might get an opportunity as well.

 

[Leysy Days]

Against the case for putting Jack into the middle is the end of the sub rule and far fewer rotations. This should result in more traditional stay at home forward style play and less congestion around the ball with players not able to rotate on and off so much so it will be harder for tireder players to make stoppages so frequently.

Forwards won't have to run up to the wings so much so we should see more 1 on one forward/back battles in the forward fifty. This might mean that Jack might put on more bulk and play more as a power forward if Dimma etc determine that's his role. Be interesting to see if this is case.

Some coaches think we might see a return to the flood defence as a consequence in some games.

Reckon this is a furphy Antman. There will be 4 interchange players next year instead of 3. Meaning more time for players to rest.

The laws of the game committee have hardly gone in full boar on the interchange cap either. Will be 90 next year, add another four at each break that arent counted and each team can still have 102 rotations.

Players will cover more ground than ever this year ILO.

 

[Leysy Days]

Jack is not a midfielder. He would be exploited by elite midfielders as being slow to defend. Opposing coaches would place burst midfielders on him to exploit this.

Jack is just too slow to be playing in the middle. He can push up the ground as a forward because he uses his smarts and long leads to create space for himself but his leg speed is just not up to an on ball role imo.

but agree with above the best Mids would expose his lack of pace and smarts as an inside or outside mid Jack is not...

OK I think we are talking about different running here. Jack R can do short bursts, but can you imagine him picking up Brent Harvey like Jacko used to do? That's what opposing coaches would do to Jack in the midfield.

Happy for you all to explain how if what your saying is true other big bodied mids, mostly over 6 ft 2 and mostly slower than treacle are able to excel in todays football. In fact 3 All Australian midfielders this year filled that bill - Matt Priddis, Sam Mitchell and David Mundy with Josh Kennedy extremely unlucky to miss out.

All would get burnt by Harvey, Gaff, Hill etc, but yet all the above are more important to their teams than ever and don't get exposed like you all suppose. All have more value now at 30 plus years of age than 3 years ago. Have they all simply improved? No. The game is now more suited to them.

As a famous TV quote said - Why is it so?

Leysy will tell you.

Today's football is more congested than ever. We have more stoppages than ever. We have more repeat stoppages than ever. We have more players at stoppages than ever. This means that guys that are big, strong, hard to move off the footy, are quick of mind and can dispose of the ball by both hand and foot quickly and skilfully are at the highest premium they have been for many years. Ala the above guys leysy listed.

Jack ticks every one of those boxes better than almost anyone in the league. The worth of an exquisite disposal, flick, tap or kick on in heavy traffic to break the game open your way is gold. Jack can help us do that like few on our list can. Not to mention the advantage of throwing the forward matchups around with us going smaller/faster against a team with too many talls.

This is all not to say quick players aren't vital either. They are and you need plenty of them, both to transition and break once you win/lose the footy. But you also need to win the footy first and this is exactly where we have lost two of our past three finals while our most talented player gets a cold in the forward line.

What would Pavlich, Hird and Roughead (now) have done in there prime when your facing an onslaught from the centre during the second halves tight finals?

We all know the answer. In Jack we have a player with every bit their ability but without the current impact.