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Hawx delist Thorp with a year to go under contract.
- Thread starter craig
- Start date
CyberKev said:
You could have added the Everett trade and the recent failure to off load Dowler despite clubs being interested.
So the fact that Hawthorn is the common factor in all these deals and them is just bad luck? No offence but it sounds like a line in the Warwick Todd diary
Col.W.Kurtz said:
Wow, the Everitt trade, where Sydney sooked it up bigtime, got their deal, moaned about never dealing with Hawthorn again, and were back front and centre at the trade table first thing the next year. Sydney sooked, Hawthorn kept mum, the media merrily made muck and the easily led types lapped it up . The Everitt trade was no different to numerous other trades conducted by numerous other clubs across numerous trade weeks, except that in those instances the clubs didn't sook to the media about it to help their agendas.
And given that Hawthorn wasn't pushing to offload Dowler, your other "example" is absolutely meaningless. Still, thanks for proving my point about Hawthorn automatically being blamed , regardless of the situation.
Answer me this, if you will:
Was Hawthorn remiss in not meeting Carlton's demands for a first and second round pick for Brett Thornton? And was Hawthorn remiss in not giving up their first round pick + a key player + a lower pick for the privilege of paying an ageing Ryan O'Keefe $650k a year to be at a club he didn't really want to be at anyway?
Funny how the club cops so much uneducated grief from media-led sheep over trading practices, and yet the only key trades they haven't satisfactorily resolved are the ones they were held over a barrell for by whining clubs hell-bent on doing what was necessary to keep their player.
Hmmm. May have a bit to do with residual bitterness and envy from the Thompson & Hay trades (which the Kangaroos readily did without guns pointed at their heads) and an overt willingness for the media to sink the slipper at every opportunity given the testy relationship they have with the club.
No matter. Another year will come, another club will sook hypocritically, but they'll still keep coming to the table to get what they want.
Col.W.Kurtz said:
Wasn't Pelchen also involved in the failed Nick Stevens stalemate, whilst at Port?
CyberKev said:
Look every one of the incidents is understandable in isolation, including the Thornton trade which personally I think was a good non trade in the end. The fact that these incidents keep happening to Hawthorn and they turn so nasty and public does seem to suggest that there is a systemic issue going on here.
But if you want to claim media bias against Hawthorn you’ve come to the wrong website brother. The Richmond get negative articles in the press if we don’t speak to a TAC cup manager. What do you think would have happen to the Tigers in the media if he just delisted a player taken before Joel Selwood? Frankly I thought you got off lightly.
Col.W.Kurtz said:
Oh, it will come.
Of course, smarter types would realise that Hawthorn were never going to take Joel Selwood, as they already had a strong midfield, but were lacking for KPP strength and depth.
Of course, nowadays Selwood is widely viewed as the best player from the draft, which wasn't the prevailing view back in 2006.
All clubs land misses with their drafting (which can only accurately be assessed in blocks over numerous years, rather than limited to isolated picks) , the challenge is getting more hits than misses.
I fully supported the decision to take Thorp, as most people did from inside and outside the club, at the time. Bugger-all key talls make it to elite level that aren't taken high and if there are hot prospects (such as Thorp was) you have to back yourself. If you're brave enough , often enough, you'll eventually reap the rewards. What I can't stomach is soft decisions such as using pick 8 on Luke Brennan, when we desperately needed talls and quality mids, but he was too small to be the former, and not skilled enough to be the latter.
Kev, just a quick one. If you can step away from the Hawthorn lens, can you see any upside to Thorpe - I mean, I assume you ventured down to Box Hill on a relatively extensively level, was there something there that you could see? What are the defining factors that saw his axing/departure? Cheers
can appreciate what you say the concern is though he has done nothing in three yrs and yep inkury has played a part so you would cut him some slack.Tango said:
the more i look at it the i think 2 psd selections will be used.
one thing for sure we will be chasing talls. looks like pattison will go huges schulz putt gone for sure likely that they will offer polak a mature rookie spot if not he will be gone. silvestor is likely gone from the rookie list and both richo and simmonds are likely entering their final yrs.
youth is primarily our goal picks 3 19 35 44 51 should be used in the draft we should still have 4 or 5 nd picks left and at least 1 psd pick likely 2.
i have no problem giving him a go but as usual the question has to be at what price.what is he worth given his record.
i would be dirty if we used any of picks 3 19 35 on him perhaps pick 44 if all of jackson cameron and hardwick agree he still has something to offer. this would then amount to raines for thorpe.
my problem is ive seen little of him but going by others opinions you have to ask is he worth pick 44 what is he worth.
so what would giving up pick 44 do. hmm still have picks 3 19 35 51 67 72 83 99 (the last 4 likely to be picks in the 60s.) and have farmer thorpe and hopefully macdonald with psd pick 2. plus three or so rookie picks.
in all honesty as long as we used 7 picks on kids i would not be averse to chasing two or three more mature players we would still have another 2 or 3 rookies to target kids with as well.
without a doubt macdonald welsh would be clear upgrades both are solid citizens with runs on the board. to me if i was going to take a punt on a kid who has had injury it would be smith.
who ever we take as long as they have good footskills have shown they are afl players fit a list need and fit into a reasonable age frame by all means lets grab a couple. the problem i have with thorpe is hes not proven he is afl standard, he fails one of the criteria. pick 2 in this yrs psd looks to be a valuable so is 44 in the nd would we be sure we are not wasting them taking thorpe. all im saying is lets not waste them
one thing for sure it is going to be interesting with so many half decent players being delisted.
^^^
MW...
Just to make clear. I'm not a Box Hill regular, as I don't live in Melbourne, and anything I've seen of Thorp I've seen on the tube (and I'd hardly call it extensive).
I've kept tabs on the comments of regular Box Hill watchers though, mainly because I so desperately wanted to hear that he was coming good.
Alas, the reports consistently equated to - "couldn't impress himself on the contest", "didn't work hard enough", "beaten on the day", "didn't win the marking contests"...
Didn't reconcile with my recollections of the young player running around for Tassie in 2006, but - lets be honest - three years is a long time in footy.
I'd fully understand another club picking him up though and couldn't say definitively that he won't come good with a second chance (hell we all deserve that much).
Clearly its untenable at Waverley though, as Hawthorn isn't likely to delist a tall 21 year old with talent and twelve months left on the contract, when they're going to have to find at least one tall with unfancied lower picks at the draft, without having good reason to.
Very disappointing nevertheless, but that's life.
I think if he is to have an upside, whichever club picks him up should be prepared to play him out of CHF and be willing to give him some early exposure to the top grade. Clearly he has not enjoyed being shuffled around while at Hawthorn, and you'd get a good early insite to whether he is really one of those players who will fare better in the top flight (ala Mark Williams) than the second level. It would also give you a sense of how eager he is to fully embrace the second chance. Would depend on him being fit enough for it, of course, which has been another of his ongoing downsides.
MW...
Just to make clear. I'm not a Box Hill regular, as I don't live in Melbourne, and anything I've seen of Thorp I've seen on the tube (and I'd hardly call it extensive).
I've kept tabs on the comments of regular Box Hill watchers though, mainly because I so desperately wanted to hear that he was coming good.
Alas, the reports consistently equated to - "couldn't impress himself on the contest", "didn't work hard enough", "beaten on the day", "didn't win the marking contests"...
Didn't reconcile with my recollections of the young player running around for Tassie in 2006, but - lets be honest - three years is a long time in footy.
I'd fully understand another club picking him up though and couldn't say definitively that he won't come good with a second chance (hell we all deserve that much).
Clearly its untenable at Waverley though, as Hawthorn isn't likely to delist a tall 21 year old with talent and twelve months left on the contract, when they're going to have to find at least one tall with unfancied lower picks at the draft, without having good reason to.
Very disappointing nevertheless, but that's life.
I think if he is to have an upside, whichever club picks him up should be prepared to play him out of CHF and be willing to give him some early exposure to the top grade. Clearly he has not enjoyed being shuffled around while at Hawthorn, and you'd get a good early insite to whether he is really one of those players who will fare better in the top flight (ala Mark Williams) than the second level. It would also give you a sense of how eager he is to fully embrace the second chance. Would depend on him being fit enough for it, of course, which has been another of his ongoing downsides.
Thanks Kev, appreciate the response. Hawthorn have been astute drafters over the last 5 years - I figure that them delisting this bloke says that there is something definitely not right.
CyberKev said:
the claw said:
I can't see Geelong, Essendon, Adelaide, Brisbane or Collingwood being interested, but any of the other clubs may make a play, especially if they have a good number of picks at their disposal.
If you're a club who has already had a first and second round pick (or several) and are in need of tall stocks (which is almost everyone) then you may start getting tempted from the third round on. Its whether you want to plumb for a steady depth option (and a player who doesn't look overly blessed with talent) or bet on a player who has previously shown talent, but is carrying obvious baggage.
Really, by then you're taking a risk either way with tall players, and - on the plus side with Thorp - he is still very much on the young side himself.
You're intimating using a 4th or 5th round pick, which to me would be perfectly fair and sensible for a punt of this type. a lot of players taken that low will fail anyway, so its not as if you have a lot to lose. Give him as short a contract as you can get away with, and if he starts causing problems with the other players, or doesn't show an increase in commitment, send him packing. You have to shed a few players each year anyway.
I could understand clubs picking him up and giving him a miss.
The Mighty Wozman said:
They make their errors like everyone else.
When I was 21 I got sacked from my job and, looking back, I can see why they did it. I had my problems and wasn't the right fit for that company or the job.
I went on to better things elsewhere and that company is still going strong.
Who knows how Thorp could go with a second chance in a new environment.
I'm willing to reserve definitive judgement until we see how he fares if given the chance.
