GAME DAY Rd 13 - against the Pepper Power at the home of the G

[jackfrost]

Port Adelaide fined for breaching concussion rules

Port Adelaide is fined $20,000 by the AFL for breaching concussion rules after allowing mid-fielder Hamish Hartlett back onto the field too soon after a head knock.

www.abc.net.au

but but but .................. according to Kenny H, HIS Doc is "the best in the AFL" ............. I had no idea there were rankings of AFL Doctors by the way. After his assessments last night, I have a feeling his ranking may plummet him out of the Top 5, which would be a real blow to his and Kenny's ego's no doubt.

 

[jackfrost]

Castagna must play every week. I don't care if he gets a kick or not. His closing speed is essential on our forward line. We looked slow without him!

Castagna must play every week. I don't care if he gets a kick or not. His closing speed is essential on our forward line. We looked slow without him!

Hmmmm.........the Ol' "Double Post" hey to get the message across !!!

Come on Jason, do better with your Burner account, you aren't fooling anybody.

I like MRJ's speed around the Fwd line moreso than George's by the way, but to each their own.

 

[tigersnake]

but but but .................. according to Kenny H, HIS Doc is "the best in the AFL" ............. I had no idea there were rankings of AFL Doctors by the way. After his assessments last night, I have a feeling his ranking may plummet him out of the Top 5, which would a real blow to his and Kenny's ego's no doubt.

Kenny had to back his man regardless. The question that pops in to my head is was any pressure put on the Doc, by say a senior member of the coaching staff, like Kenny maybe?

 

[The Big Richo]

The same angle or footage we were looking at obviously. As in this angle we are looking at.

Wouldn't he say this angle for whatever he was looking at on his screen?

My knowledge is out of date but unless it has changed you don't even know what is on channel 7 or Fox from the feed you get. You can't see that feed, just all the different camera feeds which you can bring up and scan through.

In my day the system was like a big multi screen where you could see all the on ground camera feeds at once. If someone copped a knock you could bring up a camera feed and go forward and back and look at it from any other angle you chose. But you couldn't see what was actually going to air at any time, just every single camera.

 

[tigersnake]

Yeah I saw that too, and assumed the goal umpire was over ruled due to them using the Edge of whatever its called, yet they didn't show that to anyone at the ground if they did.

They used snicko for one up the other end, I'm assuming they didn't use it because Gibbo and Allir collided with the post at the same time it would have hit? Just gotta assume stuff I suppose

 

[tigersnake]

Wouldn't he say this angle for whatever he was looking at on his screen?

My knowledge is out of date but unless it has changed you don't even know what is on channel 7 or Fox from the feed you get. You can't see that feed, just all the different camera feeds which you can bring up and scan through.

Logic dictates you're wrong, but it is the AFL, so you could be right.

Personally I think you're barking up the wrong tree, clutching at straws, its a red herring.

Sorry to go on and on, but the process of using the tech is meant to provide certainty and clarity. Time after time it fails to do that, annoys the *smile* out of me. Just when you think they might be starting to sort it out, they come up with new ways to stuff it up. If they were looking at different footage that showed it hit the post, just show us. Why do they show endless multiple angles sometimes, often when they aren't needed, but they don't in that instance when it was needed? Farce.

 

[The Big Richo]

Logic dictates you're wrong, but it is the AFL, so you could be right.

Personally I think you're barking up the wrong tree, clutching at straws, its a red herring.

Sorry to go on and on, but the process of using the tech is meant to provide certainty and clarity. Time after time it fails to do that, annoys the *smile* out of me. Just when you think they might be starting to sort it out, they come up with new ways to stuff it up.

I agree with all that, I'm with Red in that we should get rid of it and let the umpires umpire and accept mistakes like grown ups. And get rid of reviews in cricket as well.

 

[tiger76]

A goal should be awarded if the ball passes between the big sticks regardless of whether it touches the post.

It should be that simple.

 

[MD Jazz]

However, before you get to that point, you assess the player and determine if you consider that assessment is required. So when those boys get to the bench, you have little information other than there has been a clash, they have clearly both sustained knocks to the head and both looked a little dazed and were slow to get up. The latter is not particularly instructive because players stay down or get up for all sorts of reasons after a collision, shock, fatigue, pain, hoping for a free or a 50 etc...

So once those boys come to the bench to be patched up, the entire time they are being assessed. How is their speech, can they answer simple questions, what do their pupils look like, how is balance and co-ordination, how are their emotions, memory, how do they feel in terms of headache, nausea etc..... The fact neither lost consciousness is also important.

Good post however I do think slow to get up in this instance is instructive to how hurt they were. It was a crucial stage of the game (we lead by 3 points IIRC) , and the tigers were going into attack. Jonas and Butters are not the type to feign injury, even moreso given the circumstances.

One other thing, it appears from my observations that concussions are more likely from knocks to the temple, top of or back of head than strikes to face. The real damage from many punches is when people hit their heads on the ground with no bracing. You see kicks in the UFC that only brush the top of the head disable people. Butters was a direct strike on cheek and Jonas the eye socket, I imagine there is less "brain rattling" in these instances? I may be wrong of course.

 

[MD Jazz]

Were you sitting behind the goals at the PRE? It wasn't clear to me from that footage, wasn't clear to the goal ump, or the players who were there. I watched it few times, if it hit the post, and it might have, it hit the back of the post.

It might have been a point, but definitely not 'clearly', nowhere near it. I'm not carrying on because it was definately a goal, I'm carrying on because that footage was inconclusive, and the whole point is it has to be conclusive to overturn the ump.

I watched on TV. Saw the vision from the front when they were reviewing. Clear as day deviation on first viewing. I think they showed it twice, that was all that was needed. Point.

I was upset because i thought a free was being paid to Gibcus and there was clearly no advantage once it was deemed a point.

 

[jackfrost]

That's the second time in a short space of time that journalist has had some pretty vile, misogynistic crap posted about her, as did another earlier in this thread.

How about we grow up, play the issue and not the woman and cut out the cheap, ignorant, sexist rubbish?

Just trying to "lighten the mood" a little TBR, nothing to be taken overly seriously, sorry that you have seen it that way. I assume you are referring to my earlier post regarding Abbie Holmes and the makeup and teeth-whitening ? So please, does she NOT use those products ? Nothing sexist or misogynistic about it if its obviously FACTUAL so I'm not sure why you are using such strong terms in your reply. I happen to enjoy many women commentators in many different sports I watch, Isa Guha in my mind is the best commentator bar none in the world for what its worth, just because I'm neither a fan of Jones or Holmes does NOT make me either of the PC terms you have used above by the way, so I hope you can in fact "lighten up" a little with all due respect of course.

 

[jackfrost]

Kenny had to back his man regardless. The question that pops in to my head is was any pressure put on the Doc, by say a senior member of the coaching staff, like Kenny maybe?

I think we all know the obvious answer to that question TS ............... those Doc's are in a NO WIN situation.

 

[jackfrost]

A goal should be awarded if the ball passes between the big sticks regardless of whether it touches the post.

It should be that simple.

Exactly ........... how much crap/confusion/time wasting would be averted if this simple rule was implemented ?

Was obviously far to complicated for the likes of Vlad and his predecessors to have made and far to simple and logical.

 

[bozo]

That's the second time in a short space of time that journalist has had some pretty vile, misogynistic crap posted about her, as did another earlier in this thread.

How about we grow up, play the issue and not the woman and cut out the cheap, ignorant, sexist rubbish?

 

[Jason King]

When you say 'not warranting a test' I think you are misunderstanding how the process would work. I'm assuming the 'test' you mean is the Scat3 test, which is the formal assessment tool used to determine if a player can continue playing following a suspected concussion.

However, before you get to that point, you assess the player and determine if you consider that assessment is required. So when those boys get to the bench, you have little information other than there has been a clash, they have clearly both sustained knocks to the head and both looked a little dazed and were slow to get up. The latter is not particularly instructive because players stay down or get up for all sorts of reasons after a collision, shock, fatigue, pain, hoping for a free or a 50 etc...

So once those boys come to the bench to be patched up, the entire time they are being assessed. How is their speech, can they answer simple questions, what do their pupils look like, how is balance and co-ordination, how are their emotions, memory, how do they feel in terms of headache, nausea etc..... The fact neither lost consciousness is also important.

If there are no issues with any of those things then there is no reason to proceed with the Scat3, just you wouldn't put someone in an x-ray simply because you saw them get a knock on their leg. Concussions are often caused by very innocuous contact. If you placed every player in protocol because they took a knock without any further assessment then you would have to have a bench of 15.

In that instance the players return to the game and are closely monitored for any signs of delayed symptoms. You occasionally see an instance where a player is removed from the game and placed into protocol later following that close monitoring, or even after the game has concluded as I believe happened with Dylan Grimes at some stage.

You are putting your position very reasonably Jason, and I'm not directing this at you, but some of the rubbish I've read on here and heard in the media since last night is unbelievable.

Is the underlying premise of some of the comments on here that these dedicated professionals, who have a lifelong commitment to these boys and their families and go above and beyond in every single instance to preserve and protect their health and wellbeing would put these players back on the ground without due care?

For what? To try and win a game of football? There's some dumb stuff written on here from time to time but that without question is the dumbest.

This really is a great response from someone who knows exactly what goes on and I am grateful for it

You are correct I misunderstood the process and should have clarified it before commenting. I was under the impression that AFL guidelines meant a player who received a head knock and required assistance to get off the ground and showed symptoms of concussion was to have a Scat3 test.

Maybe its a case of it just looks much worse than what it actually was. I still don't like it and if we are rinky dink about CTE then it really should be the protocol.

 

[WildStyle]

I watched on TV. Saw the vision from the front when they were reviewing. Clear as day deviation on first viewing. I think they showed it twice, that was all that was needed. Point.

I was upset because i thought a free was being paid to Gibcus and there was clearly no advantage once it was deemed a point.

There was a deviation but it was not clear if it was from hitting the post or from Gibcus' hand behind the post. It seemed like the arc assumed it was the post and rushed the decision.

 

[mrposhman]

They used snicko for one up the other end, I'm assuming they didn't use it because Gibbo and Allir collided with the post at the same time it would have hit? Just gotta assume stuff I suppose

Both the reviews last night were poor. The 1st one (for Port) clearly didn't hit the post, even as they were still reviewing the goal, every player on the ground was set up for a centre bounce, if there is even any indication that it might be a behind they immediately setup for a kickout (like they did for our review), but everyone in the ground knew that was a goal for Port. Ridiculous yet again that it took so longer to actually get that result. The ARC (following the Bummers game) is seriously griping at me at the moment, such a waste of time.

 

[waiting]

What, 12 games in a row???

True but thought he was on the improve.

Injured?

 

[The Big Richo]

Just trying to "lighten the mood" a little TBR, nothing to be taken overly seriously, sorry that you have seen it that way.

Apologies Jack, I should have been clearer, there were comments of sexual nature about Holmes sitting near the AFL CEO, nothing to do with you.

In your case I think the sexual connotation in your post about Jones was in poor taste.

 

[The Big Richo]

One other thing, it appears from my observations that concussions are more likely from knocks to the temple, top of or back of head than strikes to face. The real damage from many punches is when people hit their heads on the ground with no bracing. You see kicks in the UFC that only brush the top of the head disable people. Butters was a direct strike on cheek and Jonas the eye socket, I imagine there is less "brain rattling" in these instances? I may be wrong of course.

Absolutely, there's a lot more 'shock absorption' in the face for the brain than in the other areas of the head. For example you often get broken noses in football, very rarely are they also concussive impacts.