Damien Hardwick

[Cooper O'Reilly]

The stats would indicate that this phenonium isn't confined to the last few years. If fact since Dimma took over at the beginning of the 2010 season we have been involved in 40 games where the result was a goal or less for 10 wins.

10 wins, 24 losses & 6 draws

2010	Hawthorn	Loss	3 points
	Sydney	Win	4 points
2011	St. Kilda	Draw
2012	Gold Coast	Loss	2 points
	Nth Melb	Loss	4 points
	Carlton	Loss	4 points
	Port Adelaide	Draw
2013	Carlton	WIN	5 points
	Fremantle	Loss	1 point
2014	Bulldogs	Loss	2 points
	Geelong	Loss	5 points
	Sydney	Win	3 points
2015	Collingwood	WIN	5 points
	Fremantle	Loss	4 points
2016	Collingwood	Loss
	Sydney	WIN	1 point
	Geelong	Loss	4 points
2017	Bulldogs	Loss	5 points
	Fremantle	Loss	2 points
	GWS	Loss	3 points
2018	GWS	Loss	2 points
	Geelong	WIN	3 points
	Bulldogs	WIN	3 points
2019	West Coast	WIN	6 points
2020	Collingwood	Draw
	Port Adelaide	WIN	6 points
2021	Port Adelaide	Loss	2 points
	GWS	Win	4 points
	West Coast	Loss	4 points
	Fremantle	Loss	4 points
	Hawthorn	Draw
2022	Sydney	Loss	6 points
	Geelong	Loss	3 points
	Gold Coast	Loss	2 points
	Nth Melb	Loss	4 points
	Fremantle	Draw
	Brisbane	Loss	2 points
2023	Carlton	Draw
	Bulldogs	Loss	5 points
	Essendon	Loss	1 point

 

[tigers80]

A reminder..there was an unprecedented assault by the Australian Football League on Damien Hardwick's gameplan.

The Hardwick Rules.

They nobbled us.

 

[AngryAnt]

A reminder..there was an unprecedented assault by the Australian Football League on Damien Hardwick's gameplan.

The Hardwick Rules.

that's true, but once the environment changes you have to adapt. He hasn't. That to me is the biggest knock on his coaching since 2020. He's still a great motivator but he hasn't adapted game style and his positional changes largely fail.

Geelong and Melbourne were the two games that worked from a coaching perspective - but how anyone can claim he's coaching well this season is beyond me.

And yeah yeah injuries and age but even so.

 

[AngryAnt]

The stats would indicate that this phenonium isn't confined to the last few years. If fact since Dimma took over at the beginning of the 2010 season we have been involved in 40 games where the result was a goal or less for 10 wins.

10 wins, 24 losses & 6 draws

2010	Hawthorn	Loss	3 points
	Sydney	Win	4 points
2011	St. Kilda	Draw
2012	Gold Coast	Loss	2 points
	Nth Melb	Loss	4 points
	Carlton	Loss	4 points
	Port Adelaide	Draw
2013	Carlton	WIN	5 points
	Fremantle	Loss	1 point
2014	Bulldogs	Loss	2 points
	Geelong	Loss	5 points
	Sydney	Win	3 points
2015	Collingwood	WIN	5 points
	Fremantle	Loss	4 points
2016	Collingwood	Loss
	Sydney	WIN	1 point
	Geelong	Loss	4 points
2017	Bulldogs	Loss	5 points
	Fremantle	Loss	2 points
	GWS	Loss	3 points
2018	GWS	Loss	2 points
	Geelong	WIN	3 points
	Bulldogs	WIN	3 points
2019	West Coast	WIN	6 points
2020	Collingwood	Draw
	Port Adelaide	WIN	6 points
2021	Port Adelaide	Loss	2 points
	GWS	Win	4 points
	West Coast	Loss	4 points
	Fremantle	Loss	4 points
	Hawthorn	Draw
2022	Sydney	Loss	6 points
	Geelong	Loss	3 points
	Gold Coast	Loss	2 points
	Nth Melb	Loss	4 points
	Fremantle	Draw
	Brisbane	Loss	2 points
2023	Carlton	Draw
	Bulldogs	Loss	5 points
	Essendon	Loss	1 point

So there goes "the players are getting too old" theory.

That leaves player decision making, end-game tactics, and mindset (maybe).

All things that are eminently coachable.

Repeated close losses are on Dimma.

 

[tigersnake]

So there goes "the players are getting too old" theory.

That leaves player decision making, end-game tactics, and mindset (maybe).

All things that are eminently coachable.

Repeated close losses are on Dimma.

Not necessarily.

My quick look says we were approx 30% in the building/ scaffolding years, 50% during the premiership years, 15% 21 until now.

Call me crazy, but I'd say that actually backs the players are getting old theory.

Again, you may not be wrong, but you can drive a truck through your logic and analysis.

 

[AngryAnt]

Good breakdown of the stats Snake. So your hypothesis is essentially "older sides tend to lose close games".

Geelong is an older side than us - or at least an old side. They don't lose an abnormal number of close games.

And yeah, i can get that age is a factor in late game tiredness. But to lose every close game bar one over two seasons is... abnormal.

Sides with old heads should manage end of game scenarios better. We manage them terribly, so badly that we win only 7% of close games. 7%. That's staggering.

 

[Tigers of Old]

that's true, but once the environment changes you have to adapt. He hasn't. That to me is the biggest knock on his coaching since 2020. He's still a great motivator but he hasn't adapted game style and his positional changes largely fail.

Geelong and Melbourne were the two games that worked from a coaching perspective - but how anyone can claim he's coaching well this season is beyond me.

And yeah yeah injuries and age but even so.

To me it's more to do with the list build. Aside from those taken over the past several seasons. For all his strengths Taranto's weakness is kicking. Hopper not great either on that front. Good kicking skills are now paramount.

 

[MD Jazz]

To me it's more to do with the list build. Aside from those taken over the past several seasons. For all his strengths Taranto's weakness is kicking. Hopper not great either on that front. Good kicking skills are now paramount.

Yeh, there is a premium on skillls now that we simply do not have.

 

[tigersnake]

Good breakdown of the stats Snake. So your hypothesis is essentially "older sides tend to lose close games".

Geelong is an older side than us - or at least an old side. They don't lose an abnormal number of close games.

And yeah, i can get that age is a factor in late game tiredness. But to lose every close game bar one over two seasons is... abnormal.

Sides with old heads should manage end of game scenarios better. We manage them terribly, so badly that we win only 7% of close games. 7%. That's staggering.

Not my hypothesis. Losing a lot of close games is an indicator of where we're at. Stars nearing the end, not enough good young players due to no early draft picks from being at the top for so long.

But its more complicated than that. We always played on a knife edge. Blitzkreig to get a lead, team defence to keep it. It was the reason we rarely flogged sides. Some punters whinged about it, despite the fact its not possible to blitzkreig for a whole game and no plan works every game, some punters will whinge about anything. But it was sublime coaching and leadership which delivered top 4 finishes and flags.

Then the league, as tiges80 said, nobbled us. Stand and 666 make it hard for our game plan. Its not easy to re engineer a list and a gameplan, the old turning around an aircraft carrier analogy is a good one. Combine that with the core of that era getting older, no early draft picks, and here we are.

I think Dimma is coaching well, doing a good job. I'll back him to tackle the situation we're in over a greenhorn every day of the week. Beyond you I know but there it is.

You want to blame Dimma, go ahead, anyone can have any opinion they want. But opinion is all it is, and you're trying to dress it up as analysis.

 

[AngryAnt]

Not my hypothesis. Losing a lot of close games is an indicator of where we're at. Stars nearing the end, not enough good young players due to no early draft picks from being at the top for so long.

But its more complicated than that. We always played on a knife edge. Blitzkreig to get a lead, team defence to keep it. It was the reason we rarely flogged sides. Some punters whinged about it, some punters will whinge about anything. But it was sublime coaching and leadership which delivered top 4 finishes and flags.

Then the league, as tiges80 said, nobbled us. Stand and 666 make it hard for our game plan. Its not easy to re engineer a list and a gameplan, the old turning around an aircraft carrier analogy is a good one. Combine that with the core of that era getting older, no early draft picks, and here we are.

I think Dimma is coaching well, doing a good job. I'll back him to tackle the situation we're in over a greenhorn every day of the week. Beyond you I know but there it is.

You want to blame Dimma, go ahead, anyone can have any opinion they want. But opinion is all it is, and you're trying to dress it up as analysis.

Don't really get the personal stuff you are throwing here Snake. Disagree with me fine, but I'm arguing in good faith.

Dimma is an all time legend of the RFC and he should see out his contract at the very least, but he also needs to bear responsibility for an issue that has been around for two years or longer.

Nothing about this is easy but just saying the list, rule changes, changing a game plan etc make it all too hard is not going to help us get out of this hole.

 

[tigersnake]

Don't really get the personal stuff you are throwing here Snake. Disagree with me fine, but I'm arguing in good faith.

Dimma is an all time legend of the RFC and he should see out his contract at the very least, but he also needs to bear responsibility for an issue that has been around for two years or longer.

Nothing about this is easy but just saying the list, rule changes, changing a game plan etc make it all too hard is not going to help us get out of this hole.

Whats the personal stuff? You said how anyone could say Dimma is coaching well is beyond me. You said there goes the players are getting old theory, I'm just presenting counter arguments.

On the last point, not at all. Where did I say it is all too hard? That is the situation. Recognising and understanding the situation is the first step to getting us out of this hole.

 

[AngryAnt]

Whats the personal stuff? You said how anyone could say Dimma is coaching well is beyond me. You said there goes the players are getting old theory, I'm just presenting counter arguments.

On the last point, not at all. Where did I say it is all too hard? That is the situation. Recognising and understanding the situation is the first step to getting us out of this hole.

Fair enough, agree on that last point.

To me Dimma has coached well in the sense of having a game plan that countered the strengths of the oppo against Melbourne and Geelong. I just cannot see any evidence of good coaching on Saturday night.

Give me one example of good coaching from Dimma in the Essendon loss though, maybe you can convince me.

 

[tigersnake]

Yeh, there is a premium on skillls now that we simply do not have.

But apparently playing all our players in the exact posi they've been playing in since u12s will save us.

 

[Rantnrave]

You could see within the first quater that bombing it was killin us and bombers chipping it around was to...Yet nothing changed. Our foward line rarely had anyone lead.But two times Ross lowered his eyes and hit a lead we goaled
..then it was back to bombing it.
Could not fathom how we persisted with this bomning crap for four quaters

 

[TimeToRoar]

You could see within the first quater that bombing it was killin us and bombers chipping it around was to...Yet nothing changed. Our foward line rarely had anyone lead.But two times Ross lowered his eyes and hit a lead we goaled
..then it was back to bombing it.
Could not fathom how we persisted with this bomning crap for four quaters

That was what lost it for me. Whether that was the coaches instructions or not - it was not working!! Surely after half time we would have changed strategy. We could all see our forward line (apart from Jack) played behind their opponent. Defensively. Putting players who for years you have trained to have a defensive mindset up forward and expect them to be leading forwards wont work. If the plan was to have them lock the ball in when it came to ground - that did not work. The Essendon defenders played in front / read the ball well and just streamed out with our pseudo forwards trailing behind. Time and time again. You may say we did not have the cattle to do anything else on the night - that is a reflection of team selection.

 

[AngryAnt]

That was what lost it for me. Whether that was the coaches instructions or not - it was not working!! Surely after half time we would have changed strategy. We could all see our forward line (apart from Jack) played behind their opponent. Defensively. Putting players who for years you have trained to have a defensive mindset up forward and expect them to be leading forwards wont work. If the plan was to have them lock the ball in when it came to ground - that did not work. The Essendon defenders played in front / read the ball well and just streamed out with our pseudo forwards trailing behind. Time and time again. You may say we did not have the cattle to do anything else on the night - that is a reflection of team selection.

Exactly what I'm saying. Let's see if Snake can give me an example of good coaching from Dimma this game but I can't see one.

Dimma coaching his arse off this year? Nup.

 

[tigersnake]

Exactly what I'm saying. Let's see if Snake can give me an example of good coaching from Dimma this game but I can't see one.

Dimma coaching his arse off this year? Nup.

Any example or not of Good coaching or 'bad coaching by Dimma last saturday makes no difference to my argument. Dimma is battling away with the hand he's got, and its not a great hand. He's trying different things and has an eye on the future, but some things are gunna work and some aren't in any given game and he'll be praised and bagged accordingly.

Scapegoating and banishing Cotchy to the seconds for the rest of the season ah la Spud and Knighter, to me that would be bad coaching. Some people might crack the champaign and give Dimma job for life. Gifting games to Sonz when he's played lazy and timid, I'm not a fan of that idea, some are.

You've made up your mind it seems. Go for your life.

 

[Merveille]

One actual forward in the forward line and he is banged up and the only tall.
All other forwards better known for playing midfield or wing or defence.
To be an effective forward at this level is so specialised - Pickett, Cotch , Dusty, Prestia, Mansell, Samson all part time forwards.

Collingwood- Ash Johnson, Mihocek, Elliott all forever forwards.
Cumberland and Baur have to play at least until Lynch comes back

 

[daniel30]

He shouldn't escape criticism fullstop. Our preseason was a mess you could see early signs poor skills and kicking , not enough innovation in our game plan , players out of position or poor moves during the games and poor team selection.

How many times we hear the same thing in his press conference we need to do this better etc yet it's the same story weekly.

 

[Little Ziggyadee]

He is exhausted.
He is a KiTKaT.
He needs to Break.
Time for the Teague Train to bring us back to the glory years of 1987-1994