Cricket

[mrposhman]

It's crazy. I think its the fact the Poms have regenrated interest in Test cricket and are doing well that gets up everyones nose.

Well, the fans on PRE anyway.

I'm not sure what people want, for England to go back to boring cricket, trying to bat out for draws? Dull boring, scoring at less than 3 an over?

The term Bazball seems to be the thing that gets peoples backs up, as the way its termed I think is seen as a revolution in cricket, when this is really a revolution in ENGLISH cricket. The name is largely for the English public not something that is aimed at pushing other teams.

England is not Australia when it comes to learning cricket from young ages, when I grew up in the 80's and 90's over there, you barely even played cricket in schools. Aussies tend to assume that we did, but the facts are we didn't. There were other sports that were played, winter sports such as soccer and rugby, in the summer we generally played athletics, tennis, hockey and rounders when I was at school. I don't even really remember playing cricket bar a bit of french cricket.

That started to change around the time of the Ashes in 2005, but interest in the sport again was waning with England not performing well at the top level of cricket, so IMO this change of approach was focused on (more so than Stokes and McCullum, even though they are the face of it), to garner more interest in the sport, as England is very different to Australia in that we generally don't have the same focus on cricket at a young age as we do here. Thats why I think this focus was there, its all about generating more interest in the sport in England and TBH they have been very successful from that perspective.

 

[year of the tiger]

Ha ha. What a crazy way to look at it. Let's get Boycott back out there and have teams scoring 220 in a day.

What's being a 'traditionalist" got to do with it?

The proof is really over the lifetime of the approach.

No Jazz, what I am saying is cricket gets boring when you take the variables out of it, like always producing flat batting wickets like they do for t20, that’s boring. Watching a bowler getting smacked around the park when the contest isn‘t even, that’s boring.

Changing the tempo of the game depending on conditions, bowlers, time of day, to me makes test cricket really exciting.

I like that England are playing more attacking cricket - credit to them, it didn’t win them the ashes but they got dam close. It’s the hype around them that I struggle with - its as if bazball is their new superior approach that can’t be beaten unless you either cheat or are saved by the weather.

I know the English media………………..

 

[RoarEmotion]

Does anyone want to see Chris Tavare play again?

10 less runs per 100 than boycott.

 

[mrposhman]

No Jazz, what I am saying is cricket gets boring when you take the variables out of it, like always producing flat batting wickets like they do for t20, that’s boring. Watching a bowler getting smacked around the park when the contest isn‘t even, that’s boring.

Changing the tempo of the game depending on conditions, bowlers, time of day, to me makes test cricket really exciting.

I like that England are playing more attacking cricket - credit to them, it didn’t win them the ashes but they got dam close. It’s the hype around them that I struggle with - its as if bazball is their new superior approach that can’t be beaten unless you either cheat or are saved by the weather.

I know the English media………………..

See my post above, most Aussies don't get this, the term Bazball is for English supporter engagement, nothing about the other countries that play it, but for some reason so many Aussies seem to have an issue with it.

Like it or not, there are 3 countries worldwide that can keep Test cricket going, Australia, India and England. They are the only drawcards. The aim of this is actually what most Aussie fans want, continuation of test cricket, thats what England are trying to help with here. It engages English fans (drives revenue from England) and exciting batting etc is what Indian fans want (again drives revenue).

I'm not endeared to the term of Bazball but I understand what its trying to drive.

 

[tigertim]

Out? Or the spirit of the game? Hmmm, tough one…

https://twitter.com/x/status/1683890206343147537

 

[tigerman]

It's interesting that this Ashes series is being compared to the 2005 series. The 2005 series is when England were using mints, sunscreen and the zipper on their trousers to get the ball to reverse. Freddie Flintoff was unplayable, and was carrying on like Broad does.

What's reverse swing you say......................that's what future generations will ask.

And the England players and press have the temerity to ridicule Australia for a legitimate stumping............................

 

[jb03]

Two very even teams. Great series.

England miles ahead though on the whinging and hypocrisy scale.

 

[TigerForce]

Looks like rain in London from tomorrow.

 

[Leysy Days]

Leysy's musings:

On field Bazballs been fantastic for English and world test cricket. Only need to look at the Poms results pre/post McCallum becoming coach.

Its more the self entitled and righteous disposition off field that grates. Sore losers.

The mistake they made was not reigning this attacking Bazball in at important stages with the bat in the first two tests. A touch more nouse and they would be walking this series in. Such a shame ha!

Saying that, we have lost all tosses and also our most important player. The GOAT is certainly showing his knockers how vital (and great) he is. Irreplaceable. Champion.

On the captaincy, Cummins is copping it a lot, some justified as he was clearly rattled when the onslaught was on. Half the team setting the field, poor tactics from coaching staff, Cummins dropping catches as mind was elsewhere etc.

The pressure of leading a team under that onslaught will be a rarity though. Whilst he is a tactically poor captain, but he is an excellent leader of men. And the latter is far more important. Clarke was tactically astute, but absolutely horrible captain because he was a very poor leader. That aspect is far more important.

Hopefully the defensive shackles are off now and we attack them, none of this every man back for new batsmen rubbish.

 

[Leysy Days]

Here's why I hate Bazball:

It demands dead pitches. ODI pitches for tests, made to last five days with little change, with no grass, cracks, nothing in them for the bowlers. Concrete. So flawed long-form batsmen like Brook and Crawley can swing through the line without any concern of extra bounce or deviation. It takes the spinner out of the game to a large degree. It means that once the ball gets soft and old the attack is at the mercy of the sloggers. Dead pitch, soft ball, big bats, small grounds = money for jam.

It tips the balance between bat and ball too far.

No one can tell me Harry Brook is a good batsman. He's a *smile* baseballer.

They took down Pakistan away though.

And rolled us for 320 before they scored a run a ball 600. By your reckoning re the pitch. That made us either pathetic with the bat, or the poms geniuses with the ball?

The upcoming Indian series will be a great litmus test. A lot of Bazball is built on self belief (hence all the cult media speak from the players), once/if it gets broken it could crumble.

The mindset has made Root and Stokes better players as well ILO. It spooked us to get so defensive we aren't trying to get them out, just go defensive and hope for a mistake. Even when just getting to the crease. Unheard of.

 

[Leysy Days]

Finally on Warner. Whilst he's been serviceable this tour. Looking ahead:

He simply mustn't play the soft home test series to come.

1) We have another opening batsman close to the end,
2) A perfect easy kill to blood someone
3) helps regenerate without everyone going at once
4) His performances don't deserve it
5) We will win either way
6) Australian cricket is littered with batsmen of similar ilk, with similar/better recent records, not given the fortune of calling time when they want. In fact almost all.

Warner above nearly all should be no different.

The NSW, Candice, Warner media campaign will be strong.

Gorgeous George has pulled the right reign nearly every time since becoming Chairman of Selectors.

The team for this last test (talking bowlers as Warner should now play) plus how we shape for the Aus summer is a great test of the Taswegian Legend.

 

[tigersnake]

This Warner planning his farewell itinerary business is a farce.

 

[Leysy Days]

Last one, gotta laugh at the media - Mark Waugh, Brendan Julian, Stokes and Baz before them.

Talking about rest (6th) days.

Yet all the talk in the past couple of years (from most of those same people) has been about 4 day tests. Which is yet lol?

 

[Mopsy]

Pointsbet put some funny stuff up on their instagram page.

PointsBet Australia on Instagram: "What an effort from the fielder ( @europeancricket)"

pointsbet on June 1, 2023: "What an effort from the fielder ( @europeancricket)"

www.instagram.com

 

[Mopsy]

Double post

 

[spook]

They took down Pakistan away though.

And rolled us for 320 before they scored a run a ball 600. By your reckoning re the pitch. That made us either pathetic with the bat, or the poms geniuses with the ball?

The upcoming Indian series will be a great litmus test. A lot of Bazball is built on self belief (hence all the cult media speak from the players), once/if it gets broken it could crumble.

The mindset has made Root and Stokes better players as well ILO. It spooked us to get so defensive we aren't trying to get them out, just go defensive and hope for a mistake. Even when just getting to the crease. Unheard of.

Pakistan pitches are roads too.

Yeah, we batted poorly to make 300. I said so at the time. We should have made 500 on that pitch. I'm not talking up Australia. We don't have or haven't picked (apart from Starc) the swing bowlers you need to get movement in these conditions. (Note: England's bowlers have far and away had the better of the conditions in this series. Another note : David Warner is averaging three times as much as he did on the previous Ashes tour. Khawaja, Marnus, Smith and Marsh have made tons.)

As I thought I made clear, my criticism of Bazball is its effect on the pitches. I agree Australia has reacted defensively but when there is nothing in the pitch for the bowlers and the ball is soft, options are limited. Cummins averages 21 for his career - 32 in this series.

We've clearly missed Lyon or the score could be 3-0, as it likely would be if the tosses had gone the other way. Even with all that. The Bazirony is if they'd produced the greentops they did in 2019, 2015 and 2013, the Poms might well have won the series.

 

[Brodders17]

Based on the last 4 tests?

That's like saying I don't like the way the tigers played to win 3 flags, with their get it forward at all costs tapping, kicking off the ground chaos type stuff. It lacks "skill" in a way.

The Poms approach and manner reminds me a lot of of the mindset the tigers had to win 3 flags, authentic and positive. It's surprises me how much hatred their is towards them.

We never whinged when things didnt go our way. You can possibly compare the attacking styles to each other, but off field the English are nothing like the RFC, and certainly not authentic.

 

[tigerman]

I think Warner will play at Old Trafford, but I'd rather he didn't, in 32 test innings in England he averages just 26.

Marnus to open, gives us a left & right combination, Green to come back in.

Labuschagne
Khawaja
Smith
Head
Marsh
Green
Carey
Starc
Cummins
Hazlewood
Murphy

Khawaja started opening when he replaced Finch, who had replaced Warner because of his Sandpapergate suspension.

I say again...this should've been the side for Old Trafford, and should be the side for The Oval...that's assuming everyone is fit.

Labuschagne
Khawaja
Smith
Head
Marsh
Green
Carey
Starc
Cummins
Hazlewood
Murphy

 

[mrposhman]

Pakistan pitches are roads too.

Yeah, we batted poorly to make 300. I said so at the time. We should have made 500 on that pitch. I'm not talking up Australia. We don't have or haven't picked (apart from Starc) the swing bowlers you need to get movement in these conditions. (Note: England's bowlers have far and away had the better of the conditions in this series. Another note : David Warner is averaging three times as much as he did on the previous Ashes tour. Khawaja, Marnus, Smith and Marsh have made tons.)

As I thought I made clear, my criticism of Bazball is its effect on the pitches. I agree Australia has reacted defensively but when there is nothing in the pitch for the bowlers and the ball is soft, options are limited. Cummins averages 21 for his career - 32 in this series.

We've clearly missed Lyon or the score could be 3-0, as it likely would be if the tosses had gone the other way. Even with all that. The Bazirony is if they'd produced the greentops they did in 2019, 2015 and 2013, the Poms might well have won the series.

But again I'm not sure of your point.

You say the pitches were roads, the 2 wickets that seemed to give the least to the bowlers were at Lords and Edgebaston.

Headingley was a good wicket for the bowlers, and Old Trafford certainly wasn't as big a road as you are saying, I reckon it was a mixed wicket, it was a nice batting track but it had pace, swing, seam, bounce and it span on day 1. The facts are that Australia bowled really poorly and the English batters put the Aussie bowlers under a lot of pressure, and they couldn't mix it up with good spin because they didn't pick a good spinner.

Bear in mind that Wood has an average over those 2 tests of 17 and Woakes at 19.5, I'd say its not the massive road you indicate. Even the 1st 2 tests, the top score was 416 and the average from those 8 innings was 335 and remember both of those were won by Australia. When the wicket did more, England won which kind of goes against your whole Bazball needs crap pitches, how did England win the one that did more (the average innings score at Headingley was 244 with a high of 263.

 

[mrposhman]

We never whinged when things didnt go our way. You can possibly compare the attacking styles to each other, but off field the English are nothing like the RFC, and certainly not authentic.

I agree on the whinging, its embarrassing and way over the top. Sometimes things don't go your way, they need to get over it.