True Ian. You are quite right, at this stage it works. But if further measures of integration are bought in (as Baloo hypothesises) puts me in a bit of a sticky wicket.
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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Coronavirus
- Thread starter Tigers of Old
- Start date
Like with lockdown restrictions ? Hmmmm.
It’s meritorious but not that practically workable. Very little control factor.
Correct. Agree including what Red mentioned, how do u control it.
A few have raised it before. Dan mentioned it early on and agreed with that stance, where he wanted everyone to have the chance to get vaccinated and where there is ample supply around, open up. He has changed his narrative now with reduced freedoms to push indirectly to vaccinate. Happened in France.
I dont like the Biden narrative, now used by other politicians, "a pandemic against the unvaccinated". Its like they want to treat unvaccinated people like as a form of criminal. Only going to divide people further. Hate what I'm seeing unfolding
One narrative I have said to me (unvaxed who refuses vax). They want to take their chance with this virus. Their point is vaccinated or not you still transmit the virus. If the survive their immune system will be stronger than a vax person. They accept the vax person less likely to spread it but if everyone has had the chance to vaccinate then it should be open.
Only have to stand out the front of any supermarket & watch how many people currently use the QR sign. I reckon it'd be about 6 out of every 10 people if lucky.
Not workable or police-able.
Where do you draw the line? Only people who are vaccinated can attend shopping centres? It's crazy stuff & opens a Pandora's box.
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the narrative is how it should be. taking these steps just piles on more pressure for the unvaccinated to get vaccinated. It’s the right thing to do. 80% is not enough. 90% has to be the minimum target.
You talk about “dividing people further,” but it’s the selfish anti-vaxxers that are driving this. Our combined objective should be to defeat COVID. The only objective the anti-vaxxers have is to loudly claim vaccines are poison and offer up no legitimate alternative.
It's workable. It's working now in countries where they are taking minimising community transmission seriously.
You can’t. And when that quickly becomes apparent, it’ll be no more useful than QR coding.
Laws, fines etc. Pffft. Like lockdowns ? Please. Who’s gonna check the tens and tens of thousands of places and events that every single client or patron is attending and that that they’re ALL producing a vax passport that belongs to them ? Like all the pubs around Melbourne can control and police that.
Like I say, it’s meritorious and I won’t have any problem using it, but it’ll be sub effective.
Current vaccination rates
Coronavirus
Not sure what capacity is. The point of the lockdowns is we don’t find out. So what would you do here with these rule breaches? There are different levels of capacity and it depends on capacity for what ? There is normal ICU capacity which in Victoria is probably around 400 or so but the...
www.puntroadend.com
What happens if you refuse to mask up
Woman who didn't wear mask at MBS, other places jailed 16 weeks
A 54-year-old woman who was in the news for not wearing a face mask at Marina Bay Sands (MBS) and other places was on Monday (6 September) jailed for 16 weeks.
What happens if establishments don't follow social distancing laws
8 F&B outlets ordered to close, another 22 fined for breaching COVID-19 rules
SINGAPORE: Eight food and beverage outlets were ordered to close and another 22 establishments were fined for breaching COVID-19 safe distancing measures, the Ministry of Sustainability and the Environment (MSE) said on Friday (Aug 20). Fifty-nine people were also fined between S$300 and S$1
Pertinent to this discussion is the following bit:
"Most were compliant with vaccination differentiated safe management measures and familiar with the requisite processes to check on patrons' vaccination status."
Operators were observed to have turned away patrons who could not prove that they were fully vaccinated, said MSE.
Majority of the more than 2,000 patrons checked were also found to have a cleared vaccination status, it added.
However, more than five F&B outlets were found to have breached the rules by failing to check the vaccination status of patrons before granting entry.
The best way for it to work to prevent fakes etc would be like a govt issued photo id (aka like a licence) but a vaccination card. This way can be screenshot, don't need a smart phone, can give to someone, quick entry to places by showing card. Problem is the time it will take to get photo and process 20m cards
Yes the reason NSW are ahead of Victoria in the vaccination race is because the Feds are supplying the lion's share of Pfizer vaccines to NSW GPs at the expense of VIC GPs. We were ahead of them at the start of August but then the PM for Sydney stepped in.
Hope he does too. Should be done evenly now as new supplies come in.
Every unvaccinated person who ends up in hospital is a person who probably doesnt need to be there.
Every unvaccinated person who catches the virus has a greatly increased chance of passing it on to those who cannot be vaccinated, either because of health conditions, or because they are too young.
Every unvaccinated person has a greater chance of catching and spreading the virus, continuing its spread in the community, increasing the need for restrictions/passports etc.
Every unvaccinated person has a greater chance of catching and spreading the virus, increasing the opportunity for the virus to mutate, to more deadly strains or into strains that the current vaccines are not as effective against.
At this point people have the right not to be vaccinated, but they cannot pretend it is not a selfish decision that has no adverse impact on others.
Pandemic of the unvaccinated is simply a reality. Those who are unvaccinated suffer the worst consequences from the disease. Its not a narrative, its the truth.
That’s not any data at all. Just anecdotes.Current vaccination rates
Coronavirus
Not sure what capacity is. The point of the lockdowns is we don’t find out. So what would you do here with these rule breaches? There are different levels of capacity and it depends on capacity for what ? There is normal ICU capacity which in Victoria is probably around 400 or so but the...
What happens if you refuse to mask up
Woman who didn't wear mask at MBS, other places jailed 16 weeks
A 54-year-old woman who was in the news for not wearing a face mask at Marina Bay Sands (MBS) and other places was on Monday (6 September) jailed for 16 weeks.news.yahoo.com
What happens if establishments don't follow social distancing laws
8 F&B outlets ordered to close, another 22 fined for breaching COVID-19 rules
SINGAPORE: Eight food and beverage outlets were ordered to close and another 22 establishments were fined for breaching COVID-19 safe distancing measures, the Ministry of Sustainability and the Environment (MSE) said on Friday (Aug 20). Fifty-nine people were also fined between S$300 and S$1www.channelnewsasia.com
Pertinent to this discussion is the following bit:
"Most were compliant with vaccination differentiated safe management measures and familiar with the requisite processes to check on patrons' vaccination status."
Operators were observed to have turned away patrons who could not prove that they were fully vaccinated, said MSE.
Majority of the more than 2,000 patrons checked were also found to have a cleared vaccination status, it added.
However, more than five F&B outlets were found to have breached the rules by failing to check the vaccination status of patrons before granting entry.
We already have plenty of lockdown anecdotes and we all know how many people are adhering to lockdown laws. This is just QR code-like and not much else.
Again, it’s meritorious and I won’t have any problem using it, but it’s impractical in terms of achieving any meaningful impact.
About the only use for it I can see is for overseas travel where every single person can be checked, and it can be enforced securely, each and every time for each and every person.
Bottom line: of the tens and tens of thousands of venues, most aren’t going to have the capacity to passport check. And we are going to have heaps of people who will avoid it. And we don’t have the resources to lawfully enforce it with any effectiveness either.
Meritorious but utopian. It’ll be abandoned or informally shelved within appx 12 months and the Darwin approach will be the only applicable incentive.
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They are digital and recommend to be saved in your Apple wallet (for those with iPhones) which makes them hard to be transferable. Not sure about Motorola, Blackberry or Nokia.
