I don't have an issue with that at all. It could also be called a "*smile* idiot levy".
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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Coronavirus
- Thread starter Tigers of Old
- Start date
Likewise. If you find yourself in a serious accident or medical episode that is an emergency. You don't pick and choose which ambulance will pick you up, which ER they will take you to, which emergency doctors and nursing staff who will treat you. You just take what you are given and feel gratitude that you live in a country with first world, life saving medical infrastructure to treat you. At least that's how I think about it. But then I was raised to not feel entitled or particularly special.
An old saying my grandparents used to say stays imprinted in my mind. "You get what you get and don't get upset."
It’s pretty much a straight line on the log scale. Vic is no different. x7-8 / month until it hits some different constraints.
Agree totally. Yet another example of the scourge of social media. Anyone with access to a keyboard all of a sudden becomes an expert in any topic they choose.
I mentioned this months ago. Effectively it will solve for itself when insurance providers, both private medical and life and income protection providers, start increasing their premiums for non vaccinated policy holders. They will move quicker than any federal government initiative involving Medicare, the outrage and needing bills passed etc etc.
Maybe if you were courageous enough you could ask someone how they would feel if they infected a family member and they died. They will still tell you to FRO but may do some more thinking about it later. When I gave safety presentations at work it was always about making it personal for each person. (What they couldn’t do / who they would let down etc.). You need a reason to do *smile* that pisses you off.
Latest data on the thrombosis syndrome linked to AZ is between 1.8 per 100,000 and 2.7 depending on age group. Highest is 50-59 , lowest is 60-69. Odds of dying from it would be even lower, as high as 20% in some countries but currently only 4% in Australia due to early detection. That means odds of dying from an AZ shot in Australia would be less than 1 in a million.
I wonder how that compares with getting in a car and driving somewhere ? Odds of dying in a plane accident is 1 in 9.2 million per flight
Another myth. Immunity whether acquired through natural exposure or through a vaccine is still immunity. Vaccine immunity though gets you immunity at far lower risk than natural exposure.
Immunity is no good to you if you are dead.
Fair point, but my partner has been talking to doctors (she is caring for her brother who has a lot of doctor appointments) and the doctors are saying that they cannot convince people over 60 to get AZ. The response they are getting is things like, they saw a report on ACA which said AZ was dangerous, and ScoMo said it was dangerous. Now, these are not random patients, these are people who have been their patients for decades, for whom they have prescribed multiple drugs without massive scrutiny of the side-effects and efficacy - suddenly now they want to choose their vaccine because of media coverage and social media scare campaigns. It is a ridiculous situation and the doctors are literally going out on the street at the end of the day asking people if they are vaccinated because otherwise they have to throw it away.
Even when the response is not some random person in public, when it is a trusted health professional with a long term relationship with the patient, the response is to ignore the health advice.
DS
Never mind even getting in a car. Being a pedestrian or riding a bicycle in an urban area. Swimming in a river or the surf and the chance of drowning. Playing contact sport and copping a life threatening injury......the list goes on. Yet we do these things every day.
The other thing that makes the vaccine shopping principle ridiculous. Most of them have some minor risk of side effects. And the difference in risk profile BETWEEN them then becomes even more miniscule than the overall risk.
yeah I know, it is pretty scary.
NSW public health system struggling to cope with 1,200 a day, imagine what it would be like at 8,000? Current rate probably has them at 4,000 per day by the end of the month so let's hope something happens to slow it
More of those who get it will be vaccinated so you would think the hospital demand shouldn’t scale linearly with case numbers. But we will move more to triage.
I would love to see CHOs asked about their triage policies. It’s an important dialogue and I don’t know who owns it.
Oldest? Youngest? Most likely to survive? FIFO? Lottery? Being utilitarian I like to maximise life years. So young people most likely to survive get prioritised if I was setting triage policies.
The data coming in must suggest there's very little evidence that transmission occurs in open outdoors spaces compared with in the home or workplace.
"Ignoring medical advice" comes up a lot in covid context. Often with the speaker expressing indigation that anyone who would do so was a fool.
Yet it is very common. Anyone who smokes ignores medical advice, anyone who drinks more than the daily quota or binge drinks (four in one day!) Ignores medical advice anyone who doesn't complete the course of medication because they feel better ignores medical advice.
Those alone would cover the great majority of us. So it's not perplexing at all to me that a small percentage are not listening about vaccinations.
There was a stat I think out of the US that said that the likelihood for those dying from AZ over the age of 60 was the same as driving 400km in their car. Or on another scale, dying from lightening strike 8 times. The risk is miniscule and the feds should have invested in a proper marketing campaign targeted at those over the age of 60.
CHOs are usually public health officials they don’t manage the hospitals. It would be Chief medical officers. I know that is the case with Brett Sutton.
I can tell you that it is the thing that doctors and administrators in hospitals fear the most, rationing care to the most needy, because it goes against the principles for which they exist, to provide care to everyone. These decisions are made to a much lesser extent already I.e. should you give a heart transplant to an 80 year old? They are rare now but you are right, they would be very confronting.
Other countries have been there already of course
Just out of docs with AZ2 in my arm. Never seen local shops busier in lockdown. And this is a family, retired white collar high education area. Busker set up. Seats and walls full. The white flag has been hoisted.
Whilst the Covid virus is novel and produces all sorts of new challenges for us as a nation, it’s staggering never the less just how appalling both our federal and state governments are when it comes to basic planning for fundamental and easily predictable scenarios.
If Morrison’s total failure to deploy an effective vaccine program and what that presents for us, right now, as a nation, wasn’t predictable enough, the sad fact of the matter is that we are about to run into more predictable planning failures. These two in particular.
1. Vaccine passports. As we slowly continue to get the country vaccinated but still require suppression methods, calls for freedom passports will grow louder and louder - especially from the right side of politics and the right media. And to be honest, maybe fairly so. Andrews will be asked why vaccinated people can’t have more liberties. Why can’t businesses be afforded more liberties as well if they’re vax only enterprises be it for staff, customers or both. But what does Andrews have in place in that regard ? How would you securely identify a legitimately vaxxed person ? How do businesses control and apply it ? Via what technology and how ? Legislation ? Policing and control ? I’ve heard nothing on this front except for Andrews using a throw away line yesterday that part of the incremental release of lockdown restrictions MAY include greater liberties for those who are vaccinated. Great Dan. How ?
2. Booster vaccinations. We are fast running up against the timeline wall for decision making, policy and roll out for boosters. Come December GP’s and hubs will be inundated with people asking what should they be doing. Where is the policy and planning on this ? Where is ATAGI (under Federal management and control) at with a position statement ? Is it gonna become an issue in December and then ATAGI will do its usual trick of going through a 3 month process of evaluation ? A position and planning for it needs to be struck right now.
Australia is a great country. But one thing we are not good at is developing strategic plans quickly and effectively for easily identifiable issues. And then, when we finally do, we are slow to deploy them and usually with gaping holes that require copious re work.
Maybe it’s part of the old “she’ll be right” and casual nature we’re synonymous for. Island nation syndrome ? Dunno. Whatever it is, we’ve gotta change and become better forward planners with increased energy to deploy those plans.
If Morrison’s total failure to deploy an effective vaccine program and what that presents for us, right now, as a nation, wasn’t predictable enough, the sad fact of the matter is that we are about to run into more predictable planning failures. These two in particular.
1. Vaccine passports. As we slowly continue to get the country vaccinated but still require suppression methods, calls for freedom passports will grow louder and louder - especially from the right side of politics and the right media. And to be honest, maybe fairly so. Andrews will be asked why vaccinated people can’t have more liberties. Why can’t businesses be afforded more liberties as well if they’re vax only enterprises be it for staff, customers or both. But what does Andrews have in place in that regard ? How would you securely identify a legitimately vaxxed person ? How do businesses control and apply it ? Via what technology and how ? Legislation ? Policing and control ? I’ve heard nothing on this front except for Andrews using a throw away line yesterday that part of the incremental release of lockdown restrictions MAY include greater liberties for those who are vaccinated. Great Dan. How ?
2. Booster vaccinations. We are fast running up against the timeline wall for decision making, policy and roll out for boosters. Come December GP’s and hubs will be inundated with people asking what should they be doing. Where is the policy and planning on this ? Where is ATAGI (under Federal management and control) at with a position statement ? Is it gonna become an issue in December and then ATAGI will do its usual trick of going through a 3 month process of evaluation ? A position and planning for it needs to be struck right now.
Australia is a great country. But one thing we are not good at is developing strategic plans quickly and effectively for easily identifiable issues. And then, when we finally do, we are slow to deploy them and usually with gaping holes that require copious re work.
Maybe it’s part of the old “she’ll be right” and casual nature we’re synonymous for. Island nation syndrome ? Dunno. Whatever it is, we’ve gotta change and become better forward planners with increased energy to deploy those plans.
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Here here. Learnt some much more on here than from any "news" stations out there.
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