Coronavirus

[lamb22]

Yes.

If you read that it states that Ivermectin potentially reduces inflammation in the respiratory tract, but does nothing to stop viral lifespan or replication. This means you really have to be in a bad way in terms of covid infection for this to be of any benefit. Lots of medications can do that and many are already being used in Covid treatment for severely affected patients.

I wondered why Lamby had made a subtle shift from claiming that Ivermectin was a prophylactic and a covid cure to a "therapeutic". Nice move Lambster.

No shift from me Anty. Ivermectin is a prophylactic and treatment. I suggest you read the Hector Carvallo study from Argentina to see how effective Ivermectin might be in this regard. I am double vaccinated because I see that as an effective method of prevention. The studies which show high efficacy for ivermectin involve weekly doses. However with waning vaccine protection Ivermectin's prevention qualities may become more relevant. However it's real importance is that regardless of whether you are vaccinated or not people still get infections. At that point therapies are important and as I have made clear numerous times if you had any inclination to understand viral load is everything and if you have treatments that can reduce that then outcomes are likely to be better. Ivermectin should be seen as a bridge to full vaccination and an important adjunct in treatment.

Please don't embarrass yourself with a 5 minute google search and then proclaim Ivermectin's main strength is anti- inflammatory. It does have those properties which makes it useful in the post viral stage but if anything Ivermectin is less effective in late stage Covid.

In quick layman's terms Ivermectin has three main mechanisms which are seen as assisting in fighting Covid.

1 Importins alpha and beta have the role of transporting proteins into the cell nucleus. The virus piggy backs on the importins to send messages to the cell to not defend itself (inhibit release of interferons). The ivermectin molecule disrupts this attempted process resulting in greater cell protection.

2. The Virus spike protein locks into the Ace 2 Receptor , again in simplified terms like a phone charger into a phone and then downloads the virus into the cell cytoplasm. Ivermectin glugs up the receptor and spike protein so that it again disrupts and prevents that binding, pretty much like if there is dirt or other obstruction in your phone socket which means the charger cant connect cleanly and function.

3 Ivermectin disrupts certain enzymes which affects the virus ability to replicate.

Play school version of description of mechanism of action.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

i mean seriously... these numbers are frightening and unsustainable. The Doherty report modelling is suggesting we will get much more numbers than the UK is currently getting, which will mean more deaths. Not 35-40 per day, but potentially 150-200.

It's going to be a right royal clusterfuck precipitated by NSW's incompetence.

 

[DavidSSS]

So Lamb, you are a big advocate for Ivermectin - are you taking it or are you all talk?

Personally, I'll wait for scientific evidence before I go around touting for a parasite treatment to treat a respiratory virus. There was a researcher from Monash on 7.30 tonight. She said, yes, Ivermectin is effective against COVID in a petri dish, probably lots of things are. The issue was that the effectiveness was at concentrations which are way too high for humans to ingest. Research needs to be done before we go and tell people to take drugs, or maybe you're happy for Uttar Pradesh to do the research on their population?

DS

 

[lamb22]

Anty. I note you post the WHO article on Uttar Pradesh. The medical kits mentioned in that article that are given to every symptomatic, positive case or close contact contains paracetemol for symptom relief. ORS packets (reyhdration), multi vitamins (Vit C and zinc )which assist the immune system and Ivermectin as the anti viral medication. These kits have also been extended to symptomatic children over the age of 5.

We have gold class track and tracing, full lockdown restrictions and a vaccination rate of 35% . Uttar Pradesh has few restrictions, having opened up since July, and basically all businesses are open and has a vaccination rate of about 12%. So what explains the fact our cases are going up and Uttar Pradesh have basically no cases.

 

[lamb22]

So Lamb, you are a big advocate for Ivermectin - are you taking it or are you all talk?

Personally, I'll wait for scientific evidence before I go around touting for a parasite treatment to treat a respiratory virus. There was a researcher from Monash on 7.30 tonight. She said, yes, Ivermectin is effective against COVID in a petri dish, probably lots of things are. The issue was that the effectiveness was at concentrations which are way too high for humans to ingest. Research needs to be done before we go and tell people to take drugs, or maybe you're happy for Uttar Pradesh to do the research on their population?

DS

I am fully vaccinated. I have my prescription and will take Ivermectin if I come down with symptoms. I also am metabolically healthy which I hope helps me a little.

Sorry I missed that interview . She is a real hero. She began testing Ivermectin in 2012 and found it was effective in vitro against Dengue, zika, HIV , influenza etc. Obviously a key issue is whether you can get a dosage safe to humans which gives you an effect. The research seems to suggest you can. I am fairly simple sort of guy. In the Carvallo study I mentioned above 1195 heath workers in Argentina during their second wave were given the option as to whether they wanted to take Ivermectin to supplement their PPE. No vaccinations were available. 788 said yes 407 said no thanks. The ivermectin group were given 12mg once a week for 12 weeks. Infection rate in the Ivermectin group was 0 out of 788. The control group was 237 out of 405 (58%). There are some limitations. Participants self selected, not randomised but it certainly caught my attention. You would think that the WHO or other regulatory authority would say is this *smile* or real and set up a large RCT to see if the results could be replicated. No urge or urgency to do so apparently.

BTW other smaller trials have confirmed the quite significant benefit Ivermectin appears to provide as a prophylactic.

By the way it is one of the safest drugs ever invented. Much safer than aspirin (and the vaccines in fact - 16 deaths associated with 4 billion doses as opposed to 40,000 deaths for vaccines after 4 billion doses) In the article I quoted above about Uttar Pradesh rolling out Ivermectin to children it stated the medicine kit did not contain anti biotics which would require a prescription implying how safe they feel Ivermectin is. You need to remember that while we are scared of it in the west, developing countries are very familiar with it having used it extensively for 40 years. Its an over the counter drug in many countries. They know how safe it is at the recommended doses. The dosage in the kits and prophylactic trials are usually 0.2mg per kilo which is the dose used and recommended for anti parasitic purposes.

 

[DavidSSS]

Absolutely.
In case ya might have missed it, being alive is guaranteed to kill everyone eventually.
Cooties is simply another virus that we have no current cure for, so some people will get crook from it n a small percentage will also die. Same as happens with the flu, malaria, aids, pneumonia, wars, vehicle accidents, criminal activity, famine or any one of thousands of other reasons people die.
Nothing but egotistical power manipulation going on at the moment n poor old Joe public is getting bent over n butt *smile* and ordered to enjoy it.

I presume you are willing to be one of the ones who dies?

DS

 

[Sintiger]

Absolutely.
In case ya might have missed it, being alive is guaranteed to kill everyone eventually.
Cooties is simply another virus that we have no current cure for, so some people will get crook from it n a small percentage will also die. Same as happens with the flu, malaria, aids, pneumonia, wars, vehicle accidents, criminal activity, famine or any one of thousands of other reasons people die.
Nothing but egotistical power manipulation going on at the moment n poor old Joe public is getting bent over n butt *smile* and ordered to enjoy it.

COVID delta has a reinfection rate of 8 without any intervention, that will reduce to about 4 with a 50% vaccination rate. That’s a rosy picture of where we are.
Let it rip now and we will have 5000 cases a day in a month conservatively, we would probably have 100,000 active cases at one time. The hospitalisation rate is around 4.8%, so that’s 5,000 people in hospital of which around 6-700 would be in ICU and about 200 of those would need to be ventilated. That is far in excess of the state’s ICU capacity
Yep, let’s let it rip. It’s only another virus ….

 

[AngryAnt]

So potentially a treatment for covid. Not sure why so many on here mock something that could treat the sick.

I mock the conspiracy theories that suggest Dr Fauci and "big pharma" are suppressing ivermectin as a potential treatment.

 

[22nd Man]

CovidLive said NSW did 121,000 VIC 105,000 which i believe combines State hubs and GP's and Pharmacists?

NSW always announce the combined total VIC usually just the State Hub amount, No idea why all I am interested in is the daily total administered.

Andrews has always been very focussed on things he can control ie state hubs etc in this case.... but he does encourage people to go to GPs too but why he can't report their numbers would need to ask him.

 

[22nd Man]

COVID delta has a reinfection rate of 8 without any intervention, that will reduce to about 4 with a 50% vaccination rate. That’s a rosy picture of where we are.
Let it rip now and we will have 5000 cases a day in a month conservatively, we would probably have 100,000 active cases at one time. The hospitalisation rate is around 4.8%, so that’s 5,000 people in hospital of which around 6-700 would be in ICU and about 200 of those would need to be ventilated. That is far in excess of the state’s ICU capacity
Yep, let’s let it rip. It’s only another virus ….

I thought 18 months ago the govt was gearing up ICU capacity for way more those numbers. What happened?

 

[Sintiger]

I thought 18 months ago the govt was gearing up ICU capacity for way more those numbers. What happened?

They can gear up, the equipment and spaces are ready with a little bit of notice. The issue is that it will be extremely difficult to staff . Nurses and doctors will need to be redeployed from other areas, only emergency and extremely urgent surgery will be done.

We are one month of let it rip away from this. NSW are close to it now partly because they didn’t put in place plans and purchase equipment ready for it.

We can’t do it now, we are too close. The belief is that with 80% vaccination and public health measures (some mask wearing and social distancing) the reinfection rate can be kept at or below 1. If we are 10 weeks or so away from that we have to stay the course.

That being said I am all for loosening bit by bit as we go along, my comments are just about the “let it rip” option. It is the number of people a carrier infects that is the major difference. Influenza is about 1.2-1.3 and compared to 8 that is enormous. We can see the effect of public health actions and lockdowns on influenza, there is virtual none around.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Does anyone have a credible source on how much children under 12 are affected by the current Delta variant?
As yet we don't have a vaccine for this age bracket.
I would hope any National Cabinet policy has taken this into account with regards to 70%-80% targets we keep hearing about.

 

[Scoop]

Raf Epstein never misses with the number and he is tipping around 170 today!! 170. It's so heavy.

We have to be getting to the point were LGA's are treated differently. Things aren't working. We are a month behind NSW and supposedly locked down earlier.

What ever we are doing, it's not working.

 

[Tigers of Old]

The dam broke a couple of weeks ago. Numbers just reflective of the selfish acts of many now.
Get vaccinated cause those numbers are going to go way higher than that.

 

[RoarEmotion]

My simple rule of thumb for cases doubling every 11 days is ~x7 a month until the virus starts running into a lot of vaccinated or infected people in the groups of people that contact a lot. So 2100 for Vic at start of November and 50k for nsw.

I’d be guessing at what caseload it starts to turn. US peaked at 300k a days so maybe 8k a day for NSW is peak just as rough pro rata on population. Hopefully it isn’t so grim amd many of those who get infected are protected.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

We're going under the wheels. Strap yourselves in.

 

[Sintiger]

My simple rule of thumb for cases doubling every 11 days is ~x7 a month until the virus starts running into a lot of vaccinated or infected people in the groups of people that contact a lot. So 2100 for Vic at start of November and 50k for nsw.

I’d be guessing at what caseload it starts to turn. US peaked at 300k a days so maybe 8k a day for NSW is peak just as rough pro rata on population. Hopefully it isn’t so grim amd many of those who get infected are protected.

US has virtually no public health measures in place, at least in some areas of the country , so you would hope NSW could stay below that 8,000 number given they have some measures in place and a lockdown

 

[22nd Man]

176 cases ...we ate off to the races now (but I was thinking when we had a few days in 50s we were on the right trajectory so hope I wrong again)

 

[Redford]

Our under vaccinated country is heading into a very precarious situation.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Dont worry, no doubt Morrison will be redirecting the vaccines Victoria's way right?