Coronavirus

[Redford]

The Murdoch rubbish rags and outlets really have backed themselves into a corner over Covid with their rabid right wing bias. They're conflicted from one day to another.

One moment you've got irrelevant but dangerous arsewipes like Rita Panahi calling Andrews crazy for shutting playgrounds down stop the lockdowns blah blah blah, then you've got them doing their typical Murdoch hysteria headlines about transmission occurring in them (and elsewhere) in Victoria !

You've got them railing and screaming about Victorian lockdowns but next to zero commentary on Berejiklian's lockdowns. You've got them whining about why can't we do this and why can't we do that, but then running outrage headlines about various breaches at the same time e.g. the recent Jewish engagement party.

They know they're limited about how far they can go with the anti Andrews+lockdown thing because at the end of the day, the entire country knows that's the only thing we can do to protect ourselves whilst its so chronically unvaccinated - a problem that lies with Morrisson. And drawing attention to that is not something they want to do.

The Murdoch media are in a real bind at the moment.

 

[mrposhman]

Their hospitalisation and serious infection rates are quite low. Which tentatively is a good advertisment for how things could be managed. So you are absolutely spot on in your inference.

But where I was coming from tongue in cheek was a kind of Devils Advocate. If you listen to the exact words spoken by the WA Premier, such a management scenario is unacceptable. A zero cases elimination strategy is what he stated is his aim is, when he broke ranks with national cabinet earlier in the week. He stated that he doesn't care what the vaccination rate is in the eastern states, he will not open up the state until he feels a zero cases elimination strategy can be maintained in WA.

Now of course, this could be hyperbole for the polls. But if you take it to the nth degree as a Devils Advocate. It means never opening to the rest of Australia or the outside world any time in any of our lifetimes.

Something was said a month or so ago by Anastacia Palycsuk (who however you spell it). She made a similar comment on deaths, ie. she didn't want to any deaths from Covid in her state and indicated that this would be when they open up too. People just have to accept that unfortunately people will die, but lockdowns are designed to stop the influx that would swamp our medical system (as we have seen in many places overseas) until we get vaccination rates up, but we have to be aware that people will still get Covid and people will still die from Covid but it should be at a much more controlled level than the uncontrolled nature we would have if we opened up now.

 

[Panthera Tigris]

thanks Al... seems like Sinovac is not the most effective but is better than nothing. I'm sure they'd welcome all the AZ we could supply if they had the choice.

One of my colleagues and I were talking about this about a month ago, when Astra was under the pump from a PR perspective in Australia. He said he had read and heard suggestions that a large chunk of the Astra stockpile in Australia might be donated to PNG, because it would never recover in the public consciousness.

I remember thinking to myself similar to what you suggest, that people in a poorer nation like PNG, riddled with COVID, would much appreciate it. But a torn feeling in me is thinking......hmmmm.....not overly good optics. "We won't give it to our people because of potential side effects, but it's good enough for you poor, dark people (*pat on the head)".

 

[Al Bundy]

thanks Al... seems like Sinovac is not the most effective but is better than nothing. I'm sure they'd welcome all the AZ we could supply if they had the choice.

Exactly !

 

[Panthera Tigris]

Man, I've read some dumb justifications for vaccine hesitancy, but this is right up there.

This is like refusing to drink the water coming out of your tap because some people in the world are dying of thirst.

Except in five times as many words.

I suppose I was raised to not feel entitled. Was raised to realise I'm no more special than anyone else.

Note, I did say, I took the pragmatic decision to get it. But booked in and patiently waited my turn (6 weeks wait from time of booking).

 

[DavidSSS]

didn't hear him calling out the media for their irresponsible actions.

So Dan runs ACMA now does he?

DS

 

[Coburgtiger]

I suppose I'm just not entitled. Was raised to realise I'm no more special than anyone else.

But you do drink water though? And eat? Go to the footy? Enjoy first world medical care? With a complete lack of entitlement?

 

[DavidSSS]

I think the reality is that the best chance of poorer countries getting the vaccine is when rich countries are vaccinated and have spare doses.

I don't think this is right, but it is the way the world works (lovely system we have).

So, if we get vaccinated and put pressure on to continue to manufacture AZ and purchase the others (even manufacture the mRNA vaccines eventually) this would be the best chance to get vaccines to countries which are currently struggling to get enough.

DS

 

[Panthera Tigris]

But you do drink water though? And eat? Go to the footy? Enjoy first world medical care? With a complete lack of entitlement?

Certainly don't decadently over indulge on those things. Am very aware of what I consume in those examples. I live in a humble 1950s bungalow, don't get tied up in the consumerist hamster wheel of continually trading up houses. I drive a 9-10yo car, don't buy all of the latest gadgets and toys or take the yearly trip away to Bali etc. As a bit of background, I was raised partly by depression era grandparents who were very much of that waste not, want not generation. They grew up as rural poor. So found it gave me quite a different outlook to my peers.

The "don't waste food, because there are starving people out there" guilt trip was often foist upon us (because my grandparents knew that reality in their childhood). Obviously I appreciate it's not quite that simple. In line with your critique, that food on your plate is not going to make it to the plate of a starving person in Africa. But having that ringing in one's ears does make it second nature to have gratitude for what we have. And the loss of gratitude in our society I believe is one of the causes of a sense of entitlement. From that sense of entitlement people lose touch with realities that the world is a finite place with unlimited wants vs limited resources, which obviously influence such things as gross inequalities of resources across the world and environmental degradation.

As for medical care. Interesting I was watching one of those Ambulance shows. One of the Ambulance officers was lamenting the fact that old people often won't call an ambulance unless they are nearly dying. They won't call it for much lesser complaints that other people would do, when maybe they should. The reason being that they grew up in a time when resourcing and medical care was more scarce. So only want to use it when absolutely necessary, so as to not access resources that could be going to people more in need. This is certainly my grandparents. And it's so ingrained in my psyche that it's how I am too.

 

[Panthera Tigris]

I think the reality is that the best chance of poorer countries getting the vaccine is when rich countries are vaccinated and have spare doses.

I don't think this is right, but it is the way the world works (lovely system we have).

Yep spot on David. That's where I arrived at in the end. Pragmatism vs what I think actually is right.

 

[Rancey18]

168k doses administered in NSW yesterday. But dont worry, they havent received any doses from other states' allocations

 

[Coburgtiger]

Certainly don't decadently over indulge on those things. Am very aware of what I consume in those examples. I live in a humble 1950s bungalow, don't get tied up in the consumerist hamster wheel of continually trading up houses. I drive a 9-10yo car, don't buy all of the latest gadgets and toys etc. As a bit of background, I was raised partly by depression era grandparents who were very much of that waste not, want not generation. They grew up as rural poor. So found it gave me quite a different outlook to my peers.

The "don't waste food, because there are starving people out there" guilt trip was often foist upon us (because my grandparents knew that reality in their childhood). Obviously I appreciate it's not quite that simple. In line with your critique, that food on your plate is not going to make it to the plate of a starving person in Africa. But having that ringing in one's ears does make it second nature to have gratitude for what we have. And the loss of gratitude in our society I believe is one of the causes of a sense of entitlement. From that sense of entitlement people lose touch with realities that the world is a finite place with unlimited wants vs limited resources.

As for medical care. Interesting I was watching one of those Ambulance shows. One of the Ambulance officers was lamenting the fact that old people often won't call an ambulance unless they are nearly dying. They won't call it for much lesser complaints that other people would do. The reason being that they grew up in a time when resourcing and medical care was more scarce. So only want to use it when absolutely necessary, so as to not over indulge resources that could be going to people more in need. This is certainly my grandparents. And it's so engrained in my psyche that it's how I am too.

Yeah, so none of that gives any value to the notion of not getting your vaccination as soon as possible.

I don't think anyone's suggesting you overindulge in vaccination.

I don't think your grandparents would ever have said 'Don't eat food because there are starving people out there.'

 

[Redford]

168k doses administered in NSW yesterday. But dont worry, they havent received any doses from other states' allocations

*smile*. I know we did about 65k doses on Friday but what did we do yesterday ? NSW doing nearly 2.5x more.

 

[AngryAnt]

I

One of my colleagues and I were talking about this about a month ago, when Astra was under the pump from a PR perspective in Australia. He said he had read and heard suggestions that a large chunk of the Astra stockpile in Australia might be donated to PNG, because it would never recover in the public consciousness.

I remember thinking to myself similar to what you suggest, that people in a poorer nation like PNG, riddled with COVID, would much appreciate it. But a torn feeling in me is thinking......hmmmm.....not overly good optics. "We won't give it to our people because of potential side effects, but it's good enough for you poor, dark people (*pat on the head)".

Believe me, they'd be amazed at the panic here over a statistically insignificant clotting/death rate. They literally have family members sick and dying right now, if you said there's a tiny chance of clotting but thousands of lives will be saved, they'd jump at it.

Remember in these countries most people will get no significant ICU treatment if they get seriously ill. They'll just die. Indonesians are dying at between 1000-2000 people per day including children, and that's just the official figures.

You could say refusing AZ because of a tiny rate of clotting is white privilege as well.

 

[AngryAnt]

I think the reality is that the best chance of poorer countries getting the vaccine is when rich countries are vaccinated and have spare doses.

I don't think this is right, but it is the way the world works (lovely system we have).

So, if we get vaccinated and put pressure on to continue to manufacture AZ and purchase the others (even manufacture the mRNA vaccines eventually) this would be the best chance to get vaccines to countries which are currently struggling to get enough.

DS

Yep, I said this a few months back.

 

[Panthera Tigris]

Yeah, so none of that gives any value to the notion of not getting your vaccination as soon as possible.

I don't think anyone's suggesting you overindulge in vaccination.

I don't think your grandparents would ever have said 'Don't eat food because there are starving people out there.'

I think DavidSSS summed up my thoughts.

"I think the reality is that the best chance of poorer countries getting the vaccine is when rich countries are vaccinated and have spare doses.

I don't think this is right, but it is the way the world works (lovely system we have)."

Hence pragmatically I accepted reality that I'd get it. But still leaves a bit of an uncomfortable feeling that it isn't right.

But I didn't rush out full of self importance to be front of the queue, trying to get on standby lists. There's people who need it more than I. Simply booked in, waiting out my 6 weeks and didn’t *smile* and whinge.

From a purely theoretical sense of course, the poor person living in a densely populated slum in Bangladesh, without sanitation or medical care needs the vaccination as a higher priority than I. That's more where I was coming from. I wouldn't have thought that as "dumb" to have concern for those less fortunate. Obviously in practice though the world doesn't work like this. Which is what makes me feel guilty that I'm able to access it before people in greater need. That was all I was pointing out.

 

[Rancey18]

*smile*. I know we did about 65k doses on Friday but what did we do yesterday ? NSW doing nearly 2.5x more.

I know right... Hmm I cant seem to find our numbers for yesterday yet, perhaps there is a delay with reporting this. I saw the 168k for NSW during both their press conference and on the ABC website.

 

[jb03]

Yes, UK cases still very high (but dropped a lot from the peak) and death rate is low and dropping. Vaccination doesn't fully stop transmission, but is working very effectively against deaths and even hospitalisation.

View attachment 13086

View attachment 13087

United Kingdom COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

United Kingdom Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

So the UK are having over 20k new cases a day? How are they coping with those big soccer and cricket crowds? How does their hospital/medical system cope?

 

[Al Bundy]

168k doses administered in NSW yesterday. But dont worry, they havent received any doses from other states' allocations

bit I take its like watching the suddent Vic uptake vax jab compared to other states when we had an earlier outbreak. Fence sitters finally deciding to go to get it.

Looks like the penny is dropping for many in NSW as the problem continues there and more & more get vaxed. Rapt to see those rates. Either way encouraged by this.

 

[mrposhman]

I know right... Hmm I cant seem to find our numbers for yesterday yet, perhaps there is a delay with reporting this. I saw the 168k for NSW during both their press conference and on the ABC website.

Looks like it was 80k in VIC yesterday