Coronavirus

[Panthera Tigris]

Australia dipped into COVAX Pfizer stockpile intended for poor nations

Australia received about 500,000 Pfizer vaccine doses out of the global COVAX facility in June – double what the entire continent of Africa received in the same month.

www.smh.com.au

This is a bit embarassing.

don't worry about the poor nations or the refugees fleeing afghanistan. as long as we can open up asap to get a good feed at a restaurant.

the poor who can't isolate or feed their families and are exposed to covid should be the top priority. But the affluent of western europe, US, UK have pushed into the front of the queue so they can go to the ski fields.

This is why I have dragged my feet and procrastinated regarding the vaccine. I am not an anti-vaxxer. It was more for altruistic reasons. I identified that this would happen very early on in the piece, that the developed world would get it before everyone else. So it felt entitled and morally wrong to be first in the queue when there are far more needy people than myself.

From a 'whole of world' perspective vaccinating the developing world (where the virus is rampant) as a priority was far more important than a first world nation like Australia or NZ, who are relatively unaffected. Again, from a whole of world perspective, having it running rampant in these poorer countries undermines the vaccine programmes in the developed world, because the virus has more chance to mutate into variations that the vaccines are ineffective (or less effective) against. Meaning that the vaccine rollout then becomes somewhat mute.

I had this debate with a family member, who suggested that I was letting the team down, being some sort of selfish *smile*. And explained to them the irony that my position was actually quite the opposite, it was for altruistic motivations. And felt that people in first world nations look a bit entitled receiving it first so they can get a good feed at a restaurant or go skiiing. It definitely has an element of selfishness, but people are kind of are oblivious to it, because the average person just isn't that holistic thinking in their scope.

Ultimately I am booked in to get my first shot late this month. Because I have an elderly grandparent in a nursing home that I need to continue to visit and can see the writing on the wall that visitation will be cut off for the unvaccinated at some imminent point. So for pragmatic reasons, I've accepted the reality I have to get it now. But the overall picture you gentlemen illustrate does make me squirm.

 

[Ian4]

Dan calling out anti-Semitism in todays presser. After he instigated it. Bit late for that.

Bullcrap.

maybe but don't try to claim that Premier Andrews is just an amplifier for CHO Suttons recommendations.

What do you mean? of course he is. Sutton's role is non-political, and the government of the day must abide by any decision made by the CHO. This is the same in every state except NSW, where the final call is the responsibility of the health minister.

 

[jb03]

Appalling testing rate by Victorians, the 1st couple of days of this wave we did get to 50,000 we are now in a worse position and testing has dropped away to continual low numbers around 30,000. No way is that going to help tracers get control of the ViC situation.

Yes I know Covid in NSW is rampant and their essential workers who have to leave LGA's need to get tested multiple times but they have been hitting 150,000 tests a day.

Why are the testing numbers so critical? Those who were in hot spots or feel unwell will still get tested. Those not getting tested would be those with no chance of testing positive anyway.

 

[Panthera Tigris]

Interesting reading an article about Iceland. Vaccination rate is world leading (around 92% of those above 16YO and around 70% of the overall population). Population of the country is around 400k. But, they are still getting around 200 infection cases per day.

Based on this picture, then turning the attention back to the antics of our various levels of government and rhetoric being uttered by various Premiers and other government officials. And applying this above illustration to that rhetoric. Clearly WA will not be open to the rest of the country or anywhere else in the world anytime in any of our lifetimes.

 

[jb03]

Interesting reading an article about Iceland. Vaccination rate is world leading (around 92% of those above 16YO and around 70% of the overall population). Population of the country is around 400k. But, they are still getting around 2000 infection cases per day.

Based on this picture, then turning the attention back to the antics of our various levels of government and rhetoric being uttered by various Premiers and other government officials. And applying this above illustration to that rhetoric. Clearly WA will not be open to the rest of the country or anywhere else in the world anytime in any of our lifetimes.

Can that be right? Starting from zero, that means the entire population is affected in 200 days?

 

[caesar]

Why are the testing numbers so critical? Those who were in hot spots or feel unwell will still get tested. Those not getting tested would be those with no chance of testing positive anyway.

Mystery unlinked cases that's why

 

[Panthera Tigris]

Can that be right? Starting from zero, that means the entire population is affected in 200 days?

Typo - 200 per day, not 2000

You got in before my correction of the typo.

 

[AngryAnt]

This is why I have dragged my feet and procrastinated regarding the vaccine. I am not an anti-vaxxer. It was more for altruistic reasons. I identified that this would happen very early on in the piece, that the developed world would get it before everyone else. So it felt entitled and morally wrong to be first in the queue when there are far more needy people than myself.

That would make sense if the vaccination dose you passed up went to someone in the developing world, but that's not the case.

 

[Harry]

Why are the media fear mongering with the story of the 15 year old who died from meningitis. He was even in yesterdays stats as a death with covid, not from covid. Falsely pumping up the covid death toll is not doing anyone any good.

 

[Brodders17]

I did say this was her plan about a month ago and some on here scoffed at me.

She has seen the failure as an opportunity to be the 1st state fully vaccinated and opening up the rest of the world so she can claim that as something she has driven.

All the other states will continue to keep borders closed to NSW until their vaccination rates are high enough, and international borders wont re-open until the country as a whole ahs high enough vaccination rates.

 

[RoarEmotion]

Geez things can go to *smile* quickly when people act in anger and post on social media without thinking. (My assumption as opposed to deliberately thought out hate posting) Lost her job apparently.

After Melbourne lockdown breach, hospital intern says send Jews to ‘gas chamber’

Royal Melbourne Hospital 'working to rectify this situation,' as footage from Jewish engagement party that violated Australia's virus orders sparks antisemitic backlash

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[Panthera Tigris]

That would make sense if the vaccination dose you passed up went to someone in the developing world, but that's not the case.

True in part, hence why I took the pragmatic decision to get it. Although consistent with earlier posts from BT and Harry, 500k doses did come from a stockpile set aside to potentially go to poorer nations, so it is a bit grey.

 

[AngryAnt]

True in part, hence why I took the pragmatic decision to get it. Although consistent with earlier posts from BT and Harry, 500k doses did come from a stockpile set aside to potentially go to poorer nations, so it is a bit grey.

Yes, I agree that really sucks. Given I have a lot of friends in Indonesia suffering the loss of family members now I really hope Australia and the developed world continue to send vaccines to these countries for as long as its needed.

 

[Al Bundy]

Yes, I agree that really sucks. Given I have a lot of friends in Indonesia suffering the loss of family members now I really hope Australia and the developed world continue to send vaccines to these countries for as long as its needed.

Doing a quick surf of news re vaccines came across this article about countries like Indonesia looking for booster shots due to questions on the Chinese vaccine Sinovac.

Comes down where & when they can get supply being available to them.

Indonesia, Thailand consider booster shots amid doubts over Sinovac vaccine

Indonesia and Thailand are considering offering a booster shot to their medical workers immunized with Sinovac's COVID-19 vaccine, a move likely to reduce public trust in the Chinese product that has been their main inoculation tool.

www.reuters.com

and also

Covid: Is China's vaccine success waning in Asia?

Thailand and Indonesia's switch to other Covid jabs has raised questions about Chinese vaccines.

www.bbc.com

 

[mrposhman]

Interesting reading an article about Iceland. Vaccination rate is world leading (around 92% of those above 16YO and around 70% of the overall population). Population of the country is around 400k. But, they are still getting around 200 infection cases per day.

Based on this picture, then turning the attention back to the antics of our various levels of government and rhetoric being uttered by various Premiers and other government officials. And applying this above illustration to that rhetoric. Clearly WA will not be open to the rest of the country or anywhere else in the world anytime in any of our lifetimes.

Its certainly possible. What are their hospitalisation and death rates like?

200 / day in Iceland is close to 500 per day per million.

UK is currently running at 25k / day which is equivalent to 450 per day per million.

Cases numbers don't matter once you get hospitalisations under control for opening up. Thats when case numbers become irrelevant and the only relevant stat is hospitalisation rates.

Just as a gauge for when we open up, this is equivalent to 11k cases per day in Australia.

 

[AngryAnt]

Doing a quick surf of news re vaccines came across this article about countries like Indonesia looking for booster shots due to questions on the Chinese vaccine Sinovac.

Comes down where & when they can get supply being available to them.

Indonesia, Thailand consider booster shots amid doubts over Sinovac vaccine

Indonesia and Thailand are considering offering a booster shot to their medical workers immunized with Sinovac's COVID-19 vaccine, a move likely to reduce public trust in the Chinese product that has been their main inoculation tool.

www.reuters.com

and also

Covid: Is China's vaccine success waning in Asia?

Thailand and Indonesia's switch to other Covid jabs has raised questions about Chinese vaccines.

www.bbc.com

thanks Al... seems like Sinovac is not the most effective but is better than nothing. I'm sure they'd welcome all the AZ we could supply if they had the choice.

 

[Panthera Tigris]

Its certainly possible. What are their hospitalisation and death rates like?

200 / day in Iceland is close to 50 per day per million.

UK is currently running at 25k / day which is equivalent to 45 per day per million.

Cases numbers don't matter once you get hospitalisations under control for opening up. Thats when case numbers become irrelevant and the only relevant stat is hospitalisation rates.

Just as a gauge for when we open up, this is equivalent to 11k cases per day in Australia.

Their hospitalisation and serious infection rates are quite low. Which tentatively is a good advertisment for how things could be managed. So you are absolutely spot on in your inference.

But where I was coming from tongue in cheek was a kind of Devils Advocate. If you listen to the exact words spoken by the WA Premier, such a management scenario is unacceptable. A zero cases elimination strategy is what he stated is his aim is, when he broke ranks with national cabinet earlier in the week. He stated that he doesn't care what the vaccination rate is in the eastern states, he will not open up the state until he feels a zero cases elimination strategy can be maintained in WA.

Now of course, this could be hyperbole for the polls. But if you take it to the nth degree as a Devils Advocate. It means never opening to the rest of Australia or the outside world any time in any of our lifetimes.

 

[AngryAnt]

Its certainly possible. What are their hospitalisation and death rates like?

200 / day in Iceland is close to 500 per day per million.

UK is currently running at 25k / day which is equivalent to 450 per day per million.

Cases numbers don't matter once you get hospitalisations under control for opening up. Thats when case numbers become irrelevant and the only relevant stat is hospitalisation rates.

Just as a gauge for when we open up, this is equivalent to 11k cases per day in Australia.

Yes, UK cases still very high (but dropped a lot from the peak) and death rate is low and dropping. Vaccination doesn't fully stop transmission, but is working very effectively against deaths and even hospitalisation.

United Kingdom COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

United Kingdom Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

 

[Coburgtiger]

This is why I have dragged my feet and procrastinated regarding the vaccine. I am not an anti-vaxxer. It was more for altruistic reasons. I identified that this would happen very early on in the piece, that the developed world would get it before everyone else. So it felt entitled and morally wrong to be first in the queue when there are far more needy people than myself.

From a 'whole of world' perspective vaccinating the developing world (where the virus is rampant) as a priority was far more important than a first world nation like Australia or NZ, who are relatively unaffected. Again, from a whole of world perspective, having it running rampant in these poorer countries undermines the vaccine programmes in the developed world, because the virus has more chance to mutate into variations that the vaccines are ineffective (or less effective) against. Meaning that the vaccine rollout then becomes somewhat mute.

I had this debate with a family member, who suggested that I was letting the team down, being some sort of selfish *smile*. And explained to them the irony that my position was actually quite the opposite, it was for altruistic motivations. And felt that people in first world nations look a bit entitled receiving it first so they can get a good feed at a restaurant or go skiiing. It definitely has an element of selfishness, but people are kind of are oblivious to it, because the average person just isn't that holistic thinking in their scope.

Ultimately I am booked in to get my first shot late this month. Because I have an elderly grandparent in a nursing home that I need to continue to visit and can see the writing on the wall that visitation will be cut off for the unvaccinated at some imminent point. So for pragmatic reasons, I've accepted the reality I have to get it now. But the overall picture you gentlemen illustrate does make me squirm.

Man, I've read some dumb justifications for vaccine hesitancy, but this is right up there.

This is like refusing to drink the water coming out of your tap because some people in the world are dying of thirst.

Except in five times as many words.

 

[AngryAnt]

Their hospitalisation and serious infection rates are quite low. Which tentatively is a good advertisment for how things could be managed. So you are absolutely spot on in your inference.

But where I was coming from tongue in cheek was a kind of Devils Advocate. If you listen to the exact words spoken by the WA Premier, such a management scenario is unacceptable. A zero cases elimination strategy is what he stated is his aim is, when he broke ranks with national cabinet earlier in the week. He stated that he doesn't care what the vaccination rate is in the eastern states, he will not open up the state until he feels a zero cases elimination strategy can be maintained in WA.

Now of course, this could be hyperbole for the polls. But if you take it to the nth degree as a Devils Advocate. It means never opening to the rest of Australia or the outside world any time in any of our lifetimes.

Right, and that is obviously untenable. The clear way out is vaccination, then relaxation of border controls and social distancing/lockdowns.

I have no problem with him locking the border right now though, and no problem with a complete closure of our border to NSW. They are not managing the Covid situation and relying on vaccination to solve their problem after 3-6 months is clearly unacceptable.