I'm a homebody anyway, first sign of community infection and I'm in self-lockdown. I ain't giving it to anybody.
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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Coronavirus
- Thread starter Tigers of Old
- Start date
I can understand that they don't want unvaccinated people in the workplace where they could transmit it. If my employer made it a condition of my continued employment for that reason, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But while I'm working from home - 15 months now - I don't need to get it done.
Part of the point of a vaccine is that, if you catch the virus, it is nowhere near as dangerous. The articles I have read indicate that getting a severe case of COVID is not happening to anyone who is vaccinated, with AZ or Pfizer. At very least the incidence of severe cases of COVID is drastically reduced for those who are vaccinated.
Hence, you can let the virus in if everyone is vaccinated as the virus is not causing huge health problems. We all carry viruses, plenty of them, the problem is when a virus makes you sick. If the vaccine protects us from getting sick from COVID then we can open up.
But this relies on getting enough people vaccinated, and that means as many people as possible, so, yes, what everyone else does affects us all. This is because we don't live outside a community, we live in a community
I think everyone who had had the AZ vaccine would have preferred the Pfizer vaccine, it appears to be more effective and the second dose means you are fully vaccinated much earlier. But we know that incompetence from ScoMo and friends mean that this isn't a choice. The choice we have is to throw the toys out of the cot, reference some faux-libertarian claptrap, and refuse the vaccine which is available, or, act like a responsible member of the community and get the jab. I suppose it is hard to see this when your attitude is "me, me, me" but the reality is what we all do affects everyone else.
DS
Hence, you can let the virus in if everyone is vaccinated as the virus is not causing huge health problems. We all carry viruses, plenty of them, the problem is when a virus makes you sick. If the vaccine protects us from getting sick from COVID then we can open up.
But this relies on getting enough people vaccinated, and that means as many people as possible, so, yes, what everyone else does affects us all. This is because we don't live outside a community, we live in a community
I think everyone who had had the AZ vaccine would have preferred the Pfizer vaccine, it appears to be more effective and the second dose means you are fully vaccinated much earlier. But we know that incompetence from ScoMo and friends mean that this isn't a choice. The choice we have is to throw the toys out of the cot, reference some faux-libertarian claptrap, and refuse the vaccine which is available, or, act like a responsible member of the community and get the jab. I suppose it is hard to see this when your attitude is "me, me, me" but the reality is what we all do affects everyone else.
DS
You're like a broken *smile* record, David. It's not a case of one or the other. I don't support the rights protesters or the anti-vax protesters - those *smile* should be made to pay the full fine plus serve any criminal penalties on top.
As for being a responsible member of the community, I shouldn't have to defend myself. But here, go *smile* yourself David.
Covid is a serious airborne disease that causes all sorts of health issues. That alone should see the common sense in getting vaccinated.
If not getting vaccinated, I hope for your sake (if nobody else's) that you don't catch it when all things inevitably open up even if just heading out for 'essentials'.
Also with respect, if you don't head out much (self imposed) apart for essentials, I gotta say I find it pretty bizarre that you're so concerned about the hypothetical potential for future 'lockdowns'. You're allowed out for essentials in 'lockdowns' anyway so why the big deal?
I prefer to look at the vaccine as medicine.
Lots of medicines have a list of potential side effects but are also approved by the TGA.
Would you not take those medicines also?
yes.
the notion of us all in this together, is glib *smile*.
individualism.
they should say 'maybe 49% of us, are in this together'
one of the ironies with this one though I reckon,
is if the ICU is choccas, and someone goes to the doctor 'but please, give the ventilator to my husband, hes only 38 and is a really nice bloke'
the Doctor may say 'ok mate - its my decision'
not me.
I prefer the old school, chimpanzee technology.
It could be just that I think the notion of brand shopping for a life and community saving medicine, in the midst of a crisis
is one of the most perverse things ive ever experienced in western society.
And so im just being happy with what ive got?
There would be millions of facebook wars raging between the vaccinated and the unvaccinated right now wouldnt there?
I broadly agree with you,
but I think society's have a right, and an interest,
in pursuading members to make the choices that best serve that society.
I have a go at people who smoke cigarettes in my vicinity all the time. I have at go at dangerous drivers. I have a go at people who vote for the LNP.
But again, I broadly agree with you, that its too early and unhelpful to be vilifying the unvaccinated, unless they are Pete Evans types, or other mega hypocritical, irrational, zero credibility internet kooks
Uh-oh....
www.bbc.com
Covid: Vietnam detects new UK-Indian variant, health officials say
The mutation, a combination of the Indian and UK variants, is described by officials as "very dangerous".
www.bbc.com
I don't want to get in the argument that has been going back and forth because all the views have been stated but all I will say is that there is no such thing as a decision not to be vaccinated having no effect on anyone else.
What if that person has an accident at home, has to go to hospital? That person puts the paramedics at greater risk, the emergency staff at the hospital and all the contacts of those people.
You can limit exposure to others but there is no guarantee of 100% elimination of that exposure.
I get individual choice but there is no choice now that does not create potentially a greater risk for someone else.
What if that person has an accident at home, has to go to hospital? That person puts the paramedics at greater risk, the emergency staff at the hospital and all the contacts of those people.
You can limit exposure to others but there is no guarantee of 100% elimination of that exposure.
I get individual choice but there is no choice now that does not create potentially a greater risk for someone else.
Individualism partly explains the botched rollout.
LNP are the party of every man (sic) for himself (sic)
Idealogically, Morrison believes in doing nothing,
except helping the rich man, help himself.
would have been interesting seeing how brave Aussie diggers would go in trenches these days I reckon.
There'd be blokes on Facebook debating whether Smith and Wesson hand grenades are more effective than Winchester, and they'de be shooting blokes in the same uniform point blank I reckon.
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totally agree - we (work) advocates the Aust Charter of Healthcare Rights, which is ensuring every individual has the right to make decisions about what healthcare treatments they receive and that everybody has equal rights to access to healthcare.
you will know my personal view on being vaccinated but just because I have had the jab doesn’t mean I expect others to do likewise.
My position is that each person needs to look at the info and if they are not sure, then keep asking till you get the information / answers you need to make an informed decision - something Scotty from marketing doesn’t seem to understand - this is not about political statements, or spin - it’s about a civil public conversation.
I have liked the conversation on this thread so far - people have put forward concerns and issues around the vaccination process and by and large, most responses have been respectful in putting up research / alternate views.
I spent weeks looking at all the info before I was confident to make a decision - perhaps reluctantly.
After being turned away from trying to walk-in to what looked a pretty quiet Coburg set-up on Thursday night, and three days of trying to book via phone, I booked online last night for my Pfizer shot - in four weeks' time, the earliest i could get it.
yeah I get that.
Personally, I try to live by the notion that 'its not about me'; 'I' am irrelevant in every possibly way you look at it.
I feel the same when I vote; ' I ' am irrelevant, so I vote for 'we'.
but that the difference between right and left. simples. and at the moment theres more I's than we's
But I reckon theres nothing worse than a chronic hypocrite; so if someone bangs on and rages against Indian Australians returning and botched politicians and and and them and them and them,
and doesnt get vaccinated, ive got no tolerance.
If the person accepts the result of their actions and says 'I dont wish to get vaccinated and I accept that this increases the likelihood of me, or other members of my community dying because of my decision. I am the most important person in the universe'
Im OK with that
but Ive only really got respect for The Individual who drives without a licence, pays cash for their healthcare and lifts their piano on their own.
I actually knew one once.
the rest can get *smile*. they're just up the wrong end of the selfish *smile* spectrum
I do believe theres is a decent equaliser though; the individual facing their inevitable death from the POV that its all about them, faces genuine terror at the prospect of obliteration. whereas for the person who has understood they are insignificant and irrelevant, its no big deal
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I'd say since this lockdown and with people in their 40s now eligible, they've been flooded.
Trying to book by phone is impossible. You spend forever on hold or get a message asking you to call back later. Friday morning they had the option to leave your number for a call-back, which I did. Not expecting one, though.
It's almost like if you gut public health, it struggles to keep up with demand in a public health crisis.
