Coronavirus

[AngryAnt]

He was asked at the inquiry and was allowed to tiptoe around it. Bring on the inquisition RC.

There's no evidence except your hearsay evidence which no one has even repeated, not even unethical operators like Credlin and whatshername from the Hun. If there was anything to it they would have been all over it.

Wake up Lee, you bought into a rumour and can't let it go.

 

[AngryAnt]

Some newspaper headlines from Chicago during the great epidemic.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

There's no evidence except your hearsay evidence which no one has even repeated, not even unethical operators like Credlin and whatshername from the Hun. If there was anything to it they would have been all over it.

Wake up Lee, you bought into a rumour and can't let it go.

As you might suggest about Pell, Andrews hasn't been proven not guilty, he just hasn't been proven guilty.

Still a detestable *smile*, regardless. Can't wait until someone at Labor knocks him on the head with a lump of 4x2. Politically speaking of course.

 

[AngryAnt]

As you might suggest about Pell, Andrews hasn't been proven not guilty, he just hasn't been proven guilty.

Still a detestable *smile*, regardless. Can't wait until someone at Labor knocks him on the head with a lump of 4x2. Politically speaking of course.

And the same can be said for anyone who have ever had a malicious rumour spread against us.

Until there is evidence, I treat rumours with the contempt they deserve.

 

[Sintiger]

It's hinted at in the inquiry report. Who hired Unified when they weren't even on the list of preferred government suppliers? Dan ain't telling. Clearly a Royal Commission is required to obtain answers to simple questions.

It's there if you look.

That has already been addressed a while ago. It was the preference of one of the other Departments ( Jobs I think) because Unified were high on the list in meeting certain social procurement targets. Can't remember exactly what but it may have been an indigenous ownership/involvement or something like that.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

It was the preference of one of the other Departments ( Jobs I think) because Unified were high on the list in meeting certain social procurement targets.

Well put them on the preferred list, then.

And take them off again. They were sh!t.

 

[Sintiger]

Well put them on the preferred list, then.

And take them off again. They were sh!t.

Just reminding you what was reported months ago, I think in the interim report or by one of the officials giving evidence.

No idea whether they are still on any supplier list

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Just reminding you what was reported months ago, I think in the interim report or by one of the officials giving evidence.

No idea whether they are still on any supplier list

I did see something to that effect, prior to the inquiry. They were also paid more than the other security firms.

Would've been prudent to ask Unified's owner David Milward to give evidence.

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6200456375001

 

[Sintiger]

I did see something to that effect, prior to the inquiry. They were also paid more than the other security firms.

Would've been prudent to ask Unified's owner David Milward to give evidence.

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6200456375001

That decision was one that surprised me the most actually because contracting anyone not on an approved panel is notoriously difficult in the Public sector. It's possible if you go high enough. It certainly wouldn't need a Minister but someone reasonably high up in the department.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Even the lefties among us must cringe at the "orphan" explanation in the face of 800 deaths.

Is just one of you prepared to concede how pathetic it is?

 

[MD Jazz]

I'm not hearing that MD. I am hearing concern, which I have as well, but I haven't heard the terms " no way and it's going to be a disaster"

Read the last few pages on this thread. Questioning the NSW response - the main state with the track record of managing outbreaks.

 

[Sintiger]

Read the last few pages on this thread. Questioning the NSW response - the main state with the track record of managing outbreaks.

Questioning the response is not the same as saying it will be a disaster.

I question the response because I think they could have been stronger but it could work anyway and let's hope that it does. Anyway, it's not really a productive conversation

 

[Nico]

Dan and his government lit a bushfire, and then did an excellent job putting out the fire ensuring all spot fires were totally extinguished. Sadly approx. 800 Victorians perished.

Lest we forget

 

[DavidSSS]

We should learn every time there is a problem. Whilst Dan did introduce strict lockdown as you say I bet he wishes he has done it even a few days or a week earlier and introduced mandatory mask wearing earlier.
That's what worries me about NSW. I get that it's really hard and that it's Christmas but the right decision would have been hard lock down and early. I'm worried that they haven't learned from the mistakes Victoria made. NSW has the advantage of seeing history which Victoria didn't have and I am concerned about that.
I really hope I am wrong

This is the worry. Yes, the Northern Beaches of Sydney are less connected than our Northern suburbs, but locking down part of Melbourne failed and the worry is a similar strategy in Sydney will fail.

Christmas makes it harder to lock down but also gatherings will promote the spread if infected people go to their family Christmas do.

Bloody difficult situation but they should learn from Vic, I think I might have gone for hard lockdown for a week just because any lockdown is going to be very difficult to implement over Christmas and leading into New Year. I know it is not perfect but a short hard lockdown might have worked, let's hope what they are doing will work but the 3 weeks following Christmas will really tell us.

DS

 

[Coburgtiger]

Even the lefties among us must cringe at the "orphan" explanation in the face of 800 deaths.

Is just one of you prepared to concede how pathetic it is?

800 people dying is terrible.

Most places have seen much worse. This is a lethal disease. Millions have died across the globe.

There are a lot of reasons 800 people died in Victoria. It could have been less if there was no hotel quarantine failure. But as we've seen in other states, these are difficult to avoid.

It could have been less if we hadn't opened up so quickly after the first lockdown. But the political/social pressure to do so (as seen by many on here) was immense.

It could have been less if our contact tracing system had been better. We had no infrastructure in place for this, we were both more unprepared than we could have been, and more unlucky in the timing than we could have been.

It could have been less if our aged care facilities didn't have so little support for their employees, and weren't already at a tipping point of functionality.

The fact that our country has lost so few lives in a global pandemic is a testament to all our leaders.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

The fact that our country has lost so few lives in a global pandemic is a testament to all our leaders.

Well that's one for the statistically-minded. I've posted as much myself at times. But if you take the drilldown view the problems are heavily concentrated in the south-east corner. And if you were personally affected then you probably don't give a damn about the numbers, but you might expect leaders not to pass the buck.

 

[Sintiger]

This is the other report released yesterday. Pure coincidence that it was released the same day as the hotel quarantine report?
The regulation of aged care by the commonwealth DH is absolutely appalling. It has been appalling for quite a long time and will continue to be so unless something changes. I fear however that Teflon SCOMO is going to do nothing apart from a few cosmetic changes.
The reports in this article about exchanges between operators and regulator are quite disturbing.

Report into St Basil's and Epping Gardens COVID-19 outbreaks highlights failures

More than 80 residents died during the two largest aged care COVID-19 outbreaks in Victoria. The report highlights weaknesses in the response.

www.theage.com.au

 

[22nd Man]

This is the other report released yesterday. Pure coincidence that it was released the same day as the hotel quarantine report?
The regulation of aged care by the commonwealth DH is absolutely appalling. It has been appalling for quite a long time and will continue to be so unless something changes. I fear however that Teflon SCOMO is going to do nothing apart from a few cosmetic changes.
The reports in this article about exchanges between operators and regulator are quite disturbing.

Report into St Basil's and Epping Gardens COVID-19 outbreaks highlights failures

More than 80 residents died during the two largest aged care COVID-19 outbreaks in Victoria. The report highlights weaknesses in the response.

www.theage.com.au

How many organisations in any field could successfully completely replace its work force overnight?
In this case who and where are experienced aged staff sitting around waiting for a pandemic for a call up?
Once the staff were ordered out a disaster became a catastrophe.

Probably time for aged care to become part of state health systems which we all trust. And nationalised ... The billions it would cost would be accepted by the voting public but only the Greens would have the courage.

 

[Sintiger]

How many organisations in any field could successfully completely replace its work force overnight?
In this case who and where are experienced aged staff sitting around waiting for a pandemic for a call up?
Once the staff were ordered out a disaster became a catastrophe.

Probably time for aged care to become part of state health systems which we all trust. And nationalised ... The billions it would cost would be accepted by the voting public but only the Greens would have the courage.

yes that's true about the workforce replacement but the Commonwealth DH actually has the capacity to liaise with the state jurisdiction to get access to state public health workers and the individual operators do not. In fact that is what happened in the end with these two in the report and others as well, the whole workforce was replaced by state hospital workforce, nurses and others from public hospitals. The individual operators were looking for leadership and direction and what they got was "you are on your own" .

The Commonwealth DH are responsible for standards in these facilities so the complete lack of basic infection prevention training and capability and the ridiculously low number of qualified nurses in them is their responsibility. I know people who went into these places at the height of the 2nd wave and experienced nurses were almost traumatised by it, they said the conditions were horrendous and the poor level of care gobsmacking.

For those who say that Dan Andrews is responsible for 800 deaths if we put it is those terms then if not for the failings of the the Feds over many years then those deaths would have probably been more like 300-400 at the most. I don't know if nationalising is the answer but we have to get nurses back into nursing homes (as they used to be called) and the level of expertise, training and clinical standards increased.

 

[eZyT]

Probably time for aged care to become part of state health systems which we all trust. And nationalised ...

that's how it often goes .....

1. Conservatives sell a state asset to their mates for $50m
2. Mates rape the sector, cut cost, lower service, steal subsidies, take profits, run it down
3. Socialists buy it back for $500m

Murray Darling Water allocation/Pat Corrigan a case in point.