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Coronavirus

Another comparison - Murdoch rag in Vic vs Murdoch rag in NSW

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I get what you're trying to say, but NSW hasn't had a COVID death for 93 days. Victoria was coming off a week of 62 deaths and heading into subsequent weeks of 86, 100, 106, 109, 142. I dare say both editors had it about right.

What it really shows is that Dan was slow to react (August 3). Hope NSW doesn't make the same mistake.
 
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The bias in the Murdoch papers is pretty damned obvious, mainly because their reporting is so skewed.

Surely even you can see that.

DS
 
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Can somebody explain to me why in some cases people have to quarantine for 14 days & be tested 3 times over that period when others can have a test & be cleared to go after getting results within 7 hours after testing negative? Eg: Minister Hazzard had a test the other day but tested negative & was back at work the very next day, yet return travellers have to quarantine for 2 weeks & have numerous tests. On the face of it, it doesn't make any sense.
 
Can somebody explain to me why in some cases people have to quarantine for 14 days & be tested 3 times over that period when others can have a test & be cleared to go after getting results within 7 hours after testing negative? Eg: Minister Hazzard had a test the other day but tested negative & was back at work the very next day, yet return travellers have to quarantine for 2 weeks & have numerous tests. On the face of it, it doesn't make any sense.

This is what I cant understand.

I think there must be a cheap, *smile*, innacurate, slow test

and an expensive, good, fast, accurate test???

What I dont get is If I want to go to WA, I pay $3000 to quarantine for 14 days. Surely I could pay that $3000 for the best Covid test available, wait 24 hours for a negative (im pretty sure some give an almost instant result), and carry on?

surely the good test isnt more expensive than 14 day rooms and board and 3 *smile* tests?

I know for a fact, that mining companies are conducting fast, accurate tests on their FIFO workers

Lucky states NSW
Unlucky Vic
Well managed WA Qld Tas ACT
SA unknown because I don't know what party is in power there.

If well managed,

means majority of your citizens who return with international Covid,

spend 14 days locked up 4000km away,

then, yes, I agree WA is very well managed
 
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Can somebody explain to me why in some cases people have to quarantine for 14 days & be tested 3 times over that period when others can have a test & be cleared to go after getting results within 7 hours after testing negative? Eg: Minister Hazzard had a test the other day but tested negative & was back at work the very next day, yet return travellers have to quarantine for 2 weeks & have numerous tests. On the face of it, it doesn't make any sense.

Agree. The only place we get the virus is through returning travellers. How they haven't still got this right is amazing. NSW may argue they are receiving the bulk of travellers but it doesn't excuse not getting it right. They have *smile* it royally., There should be no exceptions for anyone flying into the country. Not aircrew, not celebrities, not tennis players, not politicians. Everyone should be received with the assumption they have covid and treated accordingly. We are in a position to eliminate the virus in the community. Whilst it is great to have a swift and co-ordinated response to outbreaks we are in a position to prevent them. Lets do everything we can to prevent the outbreak in the first place, the costr is almost irrelevant. The cost to Victorians of another lockdown would be way more then financial.

Once we get this right then I imagine the domestic tourism industry will boom.
 
Were you as impressed by his answers?
Did you applaud his performance in front of the (hardly penetrating) grilling from Judge Coates?
Dan gets a fair bit of grace when it comes to those sort of matters. Appears fronting a 3 hr press conference is more important than outcomes.

The beauty of the quarantine inquiry is I now have some free passes. When my wife asks who gave premission for a golf weekend i say I don't know, it was a creeping assumption. When I go to the pub to watch the footy and I get a text as to my whereabouts I merely reply creeping assumption (can be shortened to ca) and all is sweet.
 
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Dan gets a fair bit of grace when it comes to those sort of matters. Appears fronting a 3 hr press conference is more important than outcomes.

The beauty of the quarantine inquiry is I now have some free passes. When my wife asks who gave premission for a golf weekend i say I don't know, it was a creeping assumption. When I go to the pub to watch the footy and I get a text as to my whereabouts I merely reply creeping assumption (can be shortened to ca) and all is sweet.
fronting 3 hour press conferences every day for four? months in a row and answering every question with clarity and a duty of care to all Victorians does get him some kudos IMO.

Hell, even that journo from the Hun and the super-intellect Peta Credible couldn't lay a glove on him.
 
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Dan gets a fair bit of grace when it comes to those sort of matters. Appears fronting a 3 hr press conference is more important than outcomes.

The beauty of the quarantine inquiry is I now have some free passes. When my wife asks who gave premission for a golf weekend i say I don't know, it was a creeping assumption. When I go to the pub to watch the footy and I get a text as to my whereabouts I merely reply creeping assumption (can be shortened to ca) and all is sweet.
Do you even have a point any more? Or is it just that you don't like Dan Andrews. Cause we get it.
 
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Do you even have a point any more? Or is it just that you don't like Dan Andrews. Cause we get it.
I find it odd that outcomes do not appear important to some. Dan is the premier is he not? He appears a decent guy, I don't rate him on personality, can only judge him on the outcomes. Read the final report from the hotel quarantine inquiry and tell me about leadership again?

BTW those hoping for full scale armageddon in NSW prepare to be disappointed. 15 new cases all linked to the cluster. Probably dumb luck......again.
 
This is what I cant understand.

I think there must be a cheap, *smile*, innacurate, slow test

and an expensive, good, fast, accurate test???

What I dont get is If I want to go to WA, I pay $3000 to quarantine for 14 days. Surely I could pay that $3000 for the best Covid test available, wait 24 hours for a negative (im pretty sure some give an almost instant result), and carry on?

surely the good test isnt more expensive than 14 day rooms and board and 3 *smile* tests?

I know for a fact, that mining companies are conducting fast, accurate tests on their FIFO workers



If well managed,

means majority of your citizens who return with international Covid,

spend 14 days locked up 4000km away,

then, yes, I agree WA is very well managed

In regards to how the tests work, there are actually a few different versions of tests, which can either assess one of three things.

Whether you have covid antigens in your system (the viral protein), whether you have covid genetic material in your system (the viral RNA - effectively its genome and information to make the protein) or whether you have antibodies against covid in your system (host proteins that fight off the virus).

They can be used to find out different stuff depending on what you're interested in.

The 'gold standard' that we're using for initial diagnosis is to see if the viral RNA is present.

To do this, you need to go through a few steps of purification/isolation on the patient sample, then go through a few rounds of PCR (amplification/copying of the RNA) to get it to high enough levels to visualise and see if it's really there.

Where these tests have gotten faster is in the purification/isolation steps (some omit them entirely) but that does sacrifice sensitivity slightly. Just as an aside, sensitivity is how likely you are to catch all the real positives (and lower the risk of false negatives) and accuracy is knowing that when you get a positive it actually is positive (and lower the chance of false positives).

Tests have also gotten faster by streamlining the lab tech work, employing more people, and batching more efficiently.

So faster doesn't mean better, it just means faster.

The real kicker here is that because you're looking for the test to pass a certain threshold (amount of RNA) rather than a binary yes/no, you can be infected, still show up negative, then once the viral genome has multiplied to high enough levels, you'll show up positive.

That's the logic behind the multiple tests. Like anything here though, its a social and political question how safe you play it. How many tests are enough? Three is always a good number in testing.
 
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I find it odd that outcomes do not appear important to some. Dan is the premier is he not? He appears a decent guy, I don't rate him on personality, can only judge him on the outcomes. Read the final report from the hotel quarantine inquiry and tell me about leadership again?

BTW those hoping for full scale armageddon in NSW prepare to be disappointed. 15 new cases all linked to the cluster. Probably dumb luck......again.
Everyone - everyone - is hoping this gets under control. You are the one playing politics here.

If you want outcomes, we had 700 plus cases in a day, and then eradicated it. No where else in the world has done that.

If you want to look at what actually happened, we stuffed up a bunch of times early, mainly by listening to morons who wanted to go golfing before we had an effective contact tracing system and opened up while we were still blind.

We also had/have a completely insufficient federal aged care system which couldn't cope with even a slight pressure on their system.

But if you just want outcomes, holy hell did we do well.
 
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I find it odd that outcomes do not appear important to some. Dan is the premier is he not? He appears a decent guy, I don't rate him on personality, can only judge him on the outcomes. Read the final report from the hotel quarantine inquiry and tell me about leadership again?

BTW those hoping for full scale armageddon in NSW prepare to be disappointed. 15 new cases all linked to the cluster. Probably dumb luck......again.

And that's great for all of us. If NSW has to shutdown completely it's a disaster for the whole country, so I hope for the best.
 
I get a warm feeling imagining Dan in the group ahead and hitting a steepling drive past his left earhole.

"Fore! Fore I said!"

Well, you were the guy who recommended Dan leave town because "sensible people were really angry" and his physical well-being was at risk. Turns out you were talking about yourself. Trump-esque projection.
 
fronting 3 hour press conferences every day for four? months in a row and answering every question with clarity and a duty of care to all Victorians does get him some kudos IMO.

Hell, even that journo from the Hun and the super-intellect Peta Credible couldn't lay a glove on him.

Yeah Dan is good:

"Such a finding is likely to shock the public," retired judge Jennifer Coate wrote in the report

 
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The report confirms that noone actually made the decision to use private security guards, it confirms the creeping assumption as I understand it.

I don't say that to defend anyone only to say that is exactly as I and others on this forum who have been in and around the public service assumed it happened. When you have seen the public sector in action (if you can call it that) it is totally understandable how it could happen, almost predictable, and not just in Victoria . To fix this means fixing the DHHS and other departments as well.

I have always said however that what happened after the initial infections was way more important and damaging than the actual infections themselves and that was primarily DHHS' responsibility as well, at least until it got to aged care when the public hospitals came in to clean up the federal Government's mess. We can see that infections occur as it now appears possible, even probable, that the NSW cluster is linked to Hotel quarantine as well. They will happen, hotels are not hospitals and the level of infection control can never be hospital grade, no matter how hard we try.
 
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Yeah, it's already been stated many times that the hotel/security guard issue is a mess and Dan and the state gov. own that, as sin says contact tracing etc was bad.

What Dan did well was communicate to us and have the balls to impose strict lockdown despite the alt-right nutjobs, whiteanting from Josh F and Scotty, Peta Credlin and the like.
 
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it always goes back to the golf with MD.
Outcomes ant, outcomes. To get them you need leadership, planning, systems, competence etc.
Yeah, it's already been stated many times that the hotel/security guard issue is a mess and Dan and the state gov. own that, as sin says contact tracing etc was bad.

What Dan did well was communicate to us and have the balls to impose strict lockdown despite the alt-right nutjobs, whiteanting from Josh F and Scotty, Peta Credlin and the like.
That's the best thing Dan did - recognise he couldn't trust his own gov't. and systems. He knew his limitations I suppose. Many appear to find that acceptable.
 
The report confirms that noone actually made the decision to use private security guards, it confirms the creeping assumption as I understand it.

And on that decision in all probability it would have made no difference. The ADF were never going to provide security, they aren't providing security now. The virus escaped and spread because of other factors not least of which is the fact that it got into federally controlled Aged Care homes.

Plus the police commissioner refused to do it, it looks like the creeping assumption all stemmed from that.
 
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