CC on his last legs?

[gustiger12]

he might of been jonny come lately so he had an extenuating circumstance still doesnt alter the fact we got it wrong some it seems want to fight tooth and nail to not admit this. for some the club can do no wrong or theres some extenuating reason that means its not really a failure. please give me a break.

We started to get things right when we got rid of Miller and Wallace. Taking them in the first place was the major thing we got wrong (and I thought was was a good appointment sheesh. There goes any srap of credibility I had )

Things are definitely looking up and I think Gary March has to take a fair bit of the credit for setting the ship back on course. He obviously saw through Wallace when he gave him a 5 for his yearly assessment. Definitely got that one (w)right

 

[the claw]

One needs to accept he's made a mistake before he can genuinely attempt to rectify it. I suspect CC has now done this.

yep i acknowledge they will make make mistakes and as long as they learn from mistakes made you can live with it. thus far it seems they are learning. in fact so far this off season theres little to be really critical of.

this debate for me anyway has been primarily about cc perfromance up to this off season imo at both melb at richmond he had been pretty ordinary and thus the concerns.

 

[the claw]

We started to get things right when we got rid of Miller and Wallace. Taking them in the first place was the major thing we got wrong (and I thought was was a good appointment sheesh. There goes any srap of credibility I had )

Things are definitely looking up and I think Gary March has to take a fair bit of the credit for setting the ship back on course. He obviously saw through Wallace when he gave him a 5 for his yearly assessment. Definitely got that one (w)right

imo the worm turned when casey left.

casey was the begining of our a ten yr spiral. we had just fought tooth and nail to get out of debt and keep the club afloat literally.

5 yrs later we were back in crippling debt with the footy department completely run down and basically having to do what leon daphne did in the 90s. we were forced to fix debt at the expense of the footy dept.

its one area i will cut wallace some slack he walked into a financial basketcase but aligned himself to the two men who were most responsible for poor debt and poor onfield perormance.

 

[mb64]

Cameron has a few pluses but more minuses at this stage.Doesn't really matter as we dished out another one of our famous 5 year deals.

 

[gustiger12]

imo the worm turned when casey left.

casey was the begining of our a ten yr spiral. we had just fought tooth and nail to get out of debt and keep the club afloat literally.

5 yrs later we were back in crippling debt with the footy department completely run down and basically having to do what leon daphne did in the 90s. we were forced to fix debt at the expense of the footy dept.

its one area i will cut wallace some slack he walked into a financial basketcase but aligned himself to the two men who were most responsible for poor debt and poor onfield perormance.

Can't fault that Logic Clawsy. Agreed.

 

[Disco08]

Given the criticism of this year's picks and the frustration of claw, redan and Tango at our failure to address list needs by drafting more talls, I thought it would be interesting for us to put ourselves in Cameron's shoes and outline exactly who were the mistakes and what we would have done. With the advantage of hindsight we'll see if any of us could have done any better.

FWIW, last year I wouldn't have traded for Thomson (but only because I have the advantage of knowing we ended up getting Hislop, I thought we really needed another inside player) and would have drafted Lisle with 42. This year I would have taken Stevens at 19, Shaw at 44 and Thompson with RD7.

 

[TigerForce]

Given the criticism of this year's picks and the frustration of claw, redan and Tango at our failure to address list needs by drafting more talls, I thought it would be interesting for us to put ourselves in Cameron's shoes and outline exactly who were the mistakes and what we would have done. With the advantage of hindsight we'll see if any of us could have done any better.

FWIW, last year I wouldn't have traded for Thomson (but only because I have the advantage of knowing we ended up getting Hislop, I thought we really needed another inside player) and would have drafted Lisle with 42. This year I would have taken Stevens at 19, Shaw at 44 and Thompson with RD7.

We should've traded Cuz for a 2nd round tall..... ;D

Let's wait and see what the game plan(s) is like and how we play before we criticise if the picks were correct or not.

 

[Tigers of Old]

We should've traded Cuz for a 2nd round tall..... ;D

More chance than trading Browny for one. :hihi

 

[RedanTiger]

Fair enough Disco but I think it's abit unfair to go on hindsight. Also you can't blame Cameron in isolation for specific picks. Think you can blame him for trades, delistings and re-signings though.
I'm happy to put up my picks as below.

Delist two more players (JON and Pettifer) to make seven list vacancies. Nothing radical about that.

Do not trade away draft picks. Nothing radical, most clubs have this policy particularly given the “holes in our list” and the coming draft restrictions.

2009 National Draft
8 Vickery
26 Post
42 Lisle 195 93 CHF taken at 50 by Hawthorn
58 McCulloch 199 86 Ruck taken at 69 by Brisbane
70 Rockliff 184 83 MidF taken by Brisbane in the PSD draft
82 Browne 205 105 Ruck taken by Richmond in the Rookie Draft

Pre-season Draft
7 Thomson 184 84 Mid traded by us for pick 42 in the NAB Draft

Rookie Draft
8 *smile* 189 81 Mid taken by Fremantle at pick 19
24 Delaney 194 94 KeyD taken by North at pick 25
39 Allwright 187 85 Mid taken by Geelong at pick 46
53 Gaertner 199 87 KeyD taken by St Kilda at pick 58
67 Gourdis 194 89 KeyF after being delisted by Richmond

Also managed to find the following:

This years Rookie list is only a slight improvement on last years farce, with a small forward who has been passed over for years in Nahas, Gourdis who wasn't good enough to keep on the senior list, Silvestor as a proven failure as a key back and Gilligan as an unknown flanker type who looks like every other clubs harassing-small-forward.

And note that I had Thomson rather than Cousins in the PSD
Big whoops there.

 

[Leysy Days]

Fair enough Disco but I think it's abit unfair to go on hindsight. Also you can't blame Cameron in isolation for specific picks. Think you can blame him for trades, delistings and re-signings though.

True. hard to blame CC for specific drafting choices. Especially in the last draft where he has noticably taken a more backward step with his other responsibilities.

Trades though are fair game. ;D

Leysy hasn't seen heaps of Thomson. From what he has, his kickings scrappy & lacks depth.
Which would be the reason Williams wont play him. Detests guys that can't execute.

Whilst Thomson may make our side & could improve with exposure at AFL lvl, leysy can see Prismall being traded for a similar pick. Even off a knee leysy knows who he would prefer. By far.

 

[the claw]

sheesh this bought back up again had me worried i thought for a moment cc had managed to eat himself to death on ham and turkey. should have realised it was about cameron.

 

[jb03]

Given the criticism of this year's picks and the frustration of claw, redan and Tango at our failure to address list needs by drafting more talls, I thought it would be interesting for us to put ourselves in Cameron's shoes and outline exactly who were the mistakes and what we would have done. With the advantage of hindsight we'll see if any of us could have done any better.

FWIW, last year I wouldn't have traded for Thomson (but only because I have the advantage of knowing we ended up getting Hislop, I thought we really needed another inside player) and would have drafted Lisle with 42. This year I would have taken Stevens at 19, Shaw at 44 and Thompson with RD7.

There is already a thread devoted entirely to posters stating who they would have taken with each pick given who was available.

 

[Disco08]

OK. That was a good idea.

 

[BBC]

Whilst I doubt CC is on his last legs - long time to go on his contract - he has made mistakes.

2008 draft was a 5 out of 10 - should have been a 9 out of 10.
Positives - Vickery, Post, Cousins, Nahas and Browne.
Negatives - Thompson and Hislop - why did we recruit them?

His list management was good at the end of 2009. Give him a 7 out of 10.
We needed to get rid of a lot of players but a number of them should have gone a year earlier - Schulz, Brown, Pettifer etc.

This year we have a few on the list that should have been cut earlier - King, Hislop, Thompson, Simmonds, McMahon etc.
These guys are list cloggers in every sense.

 

[Phar Ace]

This year we have a few on the list that should have been cut earlier - King, Hislop, Thompson, Simmonds, McMahon etc.
These guys are list cloggers in every sense.

Yeah, there were lots of kids other clubs 'overlooked' in either the ND or the RD that we should have grabbed :

 

[BBC]

Yeah, there were lots of kids other clubs 'overlooked' in either the ND or the RD that we should have grabbed :

Let me explain further - we hold onto list cloggers for too long. The effect is cumulative. One year's draft cannot be taken in isolation. :

 

[Disco08]

Simmonds was needed because of a lack of option. The rest were contracted beyond this year. We haven't seen much of Thomson or Hislop yet either. To say they're both definitely not going to make it is a bit premature IMO.

Whilst I doubt CC is on his last legs - long time to go on his contract - he has made mistakes.

2008 draft was a 5 out of 10 - should have been a 9 out of 10.
Positives - Vickery, Post, Cousins, Nahas and Browne.
Negatives - Thompson and Hislop - why did we recruit them?

I can see why we went for their type. Coughlan was under a huge cloud, Johnson had declined dramatically and Tuck was seemingly on the outer. That leaves them Foley as the only guy who's a proven ball winner.

 

[the claw]

Simmonds was needed because of a lack of option. The rest were contracted beyond this year. We haven't seen much of Thomson or Hislop yet either. To say they're both definitely not going to make it is a bit premature IMO.

I can see why we went for their type. Coughlan was under a huge cloud, Johnson had declined dramatically and Tuck was seemingly on the outer. That leaves them Foley as the only guy who's a proven ball winner.

while i agree with all of the above i think a few things stand out for 08.
1 the failure to clean out while the drafts were still uncompomised many people spoke of this.it was last chance hotel.

2 just 3 nd picks one of which was hislop. how many times has this been allowed to happen in recent yrs.

3 after tradeing pick 42 on thomson we should have ignored hislop.

4 trading out of picks when we should have been trading into picks. we should have had at least 6/7 nd picks and a psd pick and the rookie list needed turning over as much as possible.

for where the list was, strategically we got 08 very wrong. i dont blame any one person for this, i blame them all.its been plain what needs to be done for many yrs and yet we leave it until compromised drafts to do anything.

it seems no one at the club had the gonads to stand up to wallace and miller i sure hope there are people there now who will let hardwick know hes made a wrong turn if he makes one.

finally players who a recycled but iffy.havent established themselves.

thomson/ a medium sized mid entering his 6th season surely we will make a decision on him if he fails this yr.
hislop/ another medium sized player entering yr 4 will have to step up or go.
polak/ a tall entering yr 9 not good enough imo.
farmer/ 21 yr old small entering 3rd season will have to do better than sanfl reserves.
others on our list who have had lots of time but have given little have chronic flaws in their game or have not tyruly established themselves.
mcmuffin/ say no more claw.
moore/ yep moore will be 26 in march. has had just the one good season they need to find a role for him where he can stay healthy.
gourdis/ tall 21 yr old in march 3 seasons in will have to do better than coburg ressies already been demoted from list proper.
king/ 26 yr old in march a small and not good enough.
others who are yet to establish themselves or have done little. connors entering 4th yr for a small. jackson entering 7th yr some will argue this one. polo entering yr 6. white entering yr 5. mcguane entering yr 6 again some will argue. thursfield entering yr 6 has not truly put his hand up and imo is in a make or break yr.

 

[Tenacious Tiges]

Agree with Claw here.

IMO I also think Reiwoldt needs to stand up once and for all. Too many cameo's and then nought.

 

[Barnzy]

IMO I also think Reiwoldt needs to stand up once and for all. Too many cameo's and then nought.

He's doing just fine playing on the best defenders week in and out as a 20 year old while undersized and without another tall for assistance. Geez, the pressure and sometimes criticism this bloke just staggers me. IMO he hasn't put a foot wrong yet. Needs help.