Blair Hartley

[17]

Is Clarke the issue? I don't think he is.
We'll have a type that we're drafting, to support the coaches desired playing style. I'm firmly of the belief that Dimma wanted types, that might have certain traits, that he could use to plug a hole in attack or defence.
It's waaaay to coincidental that we took lots of small forwards and flankers year after year, even when we didn't appear to have a spot in AFL or VFL for them all to play.

I think Clarke could be the issue.

In the past 4-5 years Jason Taylor at the Deez has been one that has done well drafting strong players who can win their own ball, and then deliver it efficiently by foot.
It seems like he has two basic filters that weed out a lot of turnips.

Not sure Clarke has a strong set of filters. He seems to be accumulating a hotch potch of players who are either too skinny / not strong enough, are not good kicks, are not keen to win their own ball, are fast athletes but are not natural footballers, or have other deficiencies that translate to showing tantalising "glimpes" but ultimately (after years of development) proving to be disappointments.

I'm concerned.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Is Clarke the issue? I don't think he is.
We'll have a type that we're drafting, to support the coaches desired playing style. I'm firmly of the belief that Dimma wanted types, that might have certain traits, that he could use to plug a hole in attack or defence.
It's waaaay to coincidental that we took lots of small forwards and flankers year after year, even when we didn't appear to have a spot in AFL or VFL for them all to play.

This is true.
I think we need to remember that the SHocking AFL changed the rules on us to nobble the effectiveness of our chaos game.
Until that point we had a very successful strategy of type and part of the reason we've had success at the back end of drafts.
That has now shifted from athleticism & competitiveness back to a heavy emphasis on foot skills & decision making.
We've tried to address that the past couple of drafts but it shifted overnight which changed the look of the comp & we're now playing catchup.

 

[Tony Braxton-Hicks]

Is Clarke the issue? I don't think he is.
We'll have a type that we're drafting, to support the coaches desired playing style. I'm firmly of the belief that Dimma wanted types, that might have certain traits, that he could use to plug a hole in attack or defence.
It's waaaay to coincidental that we took lots of small forwards and flankers year after year, even when we didn't appear to have a spot in AFL or VFL for them all to play.

It's waaaay too coincidental that Clarke watched the juniors and called their names out.

 

[The_General]

I think Clarke could be the issue.

In the past 4-5 years Jason Taylor at the Deez has been one that has done well drafting strong players who can win their own ball, and then deliver it efficiently by foot.
It seems like he has two basic filters that weed out a lot of turnips.

Not sure Clarke has a strong set of filters. He seems to be accumulating a hotch potch of players who are either too skinny / not strong enough, are not good kicks, are not keen to win their own ball, are fast athletes but are not natural footballers, or have other deficiencies that translate to showing tantalising "glimpes" but ultimately (after years of development) proving to be disappointments.

I'm concerned.

Chaos ball didn't need good foot skills. It was all about endurance and speed. A good tap forward to another team mate 5m away was a worthy possession if it kept the tidal wave heading towards our goals.
Hocking did change the rules. Go back to those threads. I was one of the people who said at the time it was going to hurt because we'd drafted uniquely for our game style, which was different to everyone else. Then the rules changed and we had a list of players who weren't going to be good enough anymore because they weren't clean or fast enough to defend.
Castagna, Aarts, Caddy. Even Zombie was probably OK for our gamestyle, But horribly exposed in the new rules, and shown to be a one trick pony at other clubs.
Now we have to pivot. We need people who can run both ways, and be good by foot, preferably elite. We seem to have too many who are just OK by foot. And when people aren't running hard enough to create space, and the umpire calls play on. We're being found out by the good teams. Then our mids are in no man's land, neither in a good spot to receive an easy kick nor in a good place to hold up the opposition. Then our defence is under seige.
Lack of ability to find targets under pressure, lack of ability to clear the ball consistently and lack of targets to kick to up forward. It feels like we're mid-Wallet era again. Some talent, but not enough.

 

[Scoop]

We could take Haynes' $1m salary dump from GWS in exchange for our first pick back. (We could do with a half-back flanker.)

Trade out a couple for picks, bundle them with all our other picks to Gold Coast to help with points for their 3 top-15 academy players in exchange for their first. Go to the draft with two top-10 picks.

Simples.

Dreaming. But doable. I’d do all that, genius.

 

[T-Shirt Tommy]

We could take Haynes' $1m salary dump from GWS in exchange for our first pick back. (We could do with a half-back flanker.)

Trade out a couple for picks, bundle them with all our other picks to Gold Coast to help with points for their 3 top-15 academy players in exchange for their first. Go to the draft with two top-10 picks.

Simples.

Do we have 1mil of space in our cap?

Trent and Jack gone.
Graham traded.
Tarrant gone.

Yep. Definitely doable.
Send Blair an email asap.

 

[Sintiger]

We could take Haynes' $1m salary dump from GWS in exchange for our first pick back. (We could do with a half-back flanker.)

Trade out a couple for picks, bundle them with all our other picks to Gold Coast to help with points for their 3 top-15 academy players in exchange for their first. Go to the draft with two top-10 picks.

Simples.

I would then take both the first rounders and trade them to Geelong for Max Holmes just to stop Zips posting about it all the time.

 

[toothless]

I would then take both the first rounders and trade them to Geelong for Max Holmes just to stop Zips posting about it all the time.

Can you fit in Van Hoogenband while you're at it?

 

[T-Shirt Tommy]

I would then take both the first rounders and trade them to Geelong for Max Holmes just to stop Zips posting about it all the time.

Yeah but then he’ll just *smile* and moan about how we had to pay 2 first rounders for him.

 

[Willo]

Blair will have his work cut out for him this draft. Not many classy FA’s to chase, no high picks on hand.
Hopefully he can work some magic moves.

 

[tigersnake]

People must get sick of me saying it, I do, but most of the criticism of our drafting performance has no reference points, no comparisons. Line up our drafting over the last 5 or 10 years with any other clubs and you'll see pretty much the same, a few hits, a lot of misses.

As for this year, trading up won't be easy, may not be possible, so it will probably be low percentage late picks. Off to a flyer with Matt Coulthard though. But unlike the sack-all-the-recruiters-because-they-drafted-a-dud brigade I have faith, if anyone can pull a rabbit out of a hat we can.

 

[The_General]

People must get sick of me saying it, I do, but most of the criticism of our drafting performance has no reference points, no comparisons. Line up our drafting over the last 5 or 10 years with any other clubs and you'll see pretty much the same, a few hits, a lot of misses.

As for this year, trading up won't be easy, may not be possible, so it will probably be low percentage late picks. Off to a flyer with Matt Coulthard though. But unlike the sack-all-the-recruiters-because-they-drafted-a-dud brigade I have faith, if anyone can pull a rabbit out of a hat we can.

I'm with you TS. When Clarke had a near full draft to pick from, he took Gibcus. A tall, not a HBF. He was rumoured to be picking Hobbs, an inside mid who'd also fill a need. Nothing like his supposed "normal" picks. But they were likely best available by who we rated and who was left.
I've got faith in him, if he has a different coaching strategy to select for, he'll pick a different type.

 

[davidc0055]

Blair will have his work cut out for him this draft. Not many classy FA’s to chase, no high picks on hand.
Hopefully he can work some magic moves.

And supposedly a very weak draft after the first two rounds

 

[The Big Richo]

Port you weren't the Pies list manager a few years ago. Then they would have booted Pendlebury, Howe and Sidebottom and wouldn't be on top of the ladder right now.
Likewise the Dees with May and Gawn- 2 of their best 4- both 31.

Not sure we are on the same page. Gawn would have been early 20s when Roos started rebuilding them and they bought May in as a free agent when they were ready to go.

The Collingwood scenario is a bit different, Pendelbury and Sidebottom were still top 5 best and fairest finishers and they were constrained by contracts and salary cap issues when Buckley finished. McRae did lose Mayne, Greenwood and Thomas in his first year and I'm sure they intended to go again but got a bounce and went with it. They would want to win a flag very soon though or they are going to wear some hurt.

 

[TT33]

Not sure we are on the same page. Gawn would have been early 20s when Roos started rebuilding them and they bought May in as a free agent when they were ready to go.

The Collingwood scenario is a bit different, Pendelbury and Sidebottom were still top 5 best and fairest finishers and they were constrained by contracts and salary cap issues when Buckley finished. McRae did lose Mayne, Greenwood and Thomas in his first year and I'm sure they intended to go again but got a bounce and went with it. They would want to win a flag very soon though or they are going to wear some hurt.

All of the 3 were gone before McRae got there.

 

[The Big Richo]

All of the 3 were gone before McRae got there.

Same result, clear out the age on the list and get picks in. If they had finished 13th in McRae's first year they would have a very different list now as well. Or at least they should have.

I'm actually very concerned with where we are going. The fact Riewoldt and Cotchin are still possibilities for next year is a really bad sign.

It might be best if Hardwick pinches some of our footy department and we get some fresh eyes in there without the emotional connection to the players to make the needed cuts.

 

[The_General]

I'm actually very concerned with where we are going. The fact Riewoldt and Cotchin are still possibilities for next year is a really bad sign.

I agree IF that is the case.

The AFL landscape is full of media manipulation and half of what you hear shouldn't be trusted. The other half is just propaganda.

I think if Jack comes back it's possibly a sign we were all in on Himmelberg, and when that fell through we had no plan B.

 

[The Big Richo]

I agree IF that is the case.

The AFL landscape is full of media manipulation and half of what you hear shouldn't be trusted. The other half is just propaganda.

I think if Jack comes back it's possibly a sign we were all in on Himmelberg, and when that fell through we had no plan B.

Riewoldt said it was the case last night.

 

[AngryAnt]

Not sure I share your optimism.

Right now in terms of AFL quality, physically capable, key position forwards and defenders we have Balta.

You don't rate Vlastuin and Broad at all?

 

[Brodders17]

Not sure we are on the same page. Gawn would have been early 20s when Roos started rebuilding them and they bought May in as a free agent when they were ready to go.

The Collingwood scenario is a bit different, Pendelbury and Sidebottom were still top 5 best and fairest finishers and they were constrained by contracts and salary cap issues when Buckley finished. McRae did lose Mayne, Greenwood and Thomas in his first year and I'm sure they intended to go again but got a bounce and went with it. They would want to win a flag very soon though or they are going to wear some hurt.

The year Gawn was 28 they won 5 games. The same year was May's 1st.
Prestia joined a team that was rubbish at the same age as the guys you are saying we should boot.

Sounds like the Pies got lucky, being forced to keep some quality oldies.

My take is in 2022 we blew a bunch of unloseable games, but still finished 7th, with a % of 121. We were robbed in the final, even then we managed to finish the job with another stuff up to lose. We werent far away.
This year, again we have blown games we shouldnt have, and have battled without the best key forward in the game.
Now, maybe he wont come back to his original form, or come back at all. But maybe he will. And if he does we may not be far away again.

I would hate to blow a chance because with got rid of guys we shouldn't have.
We need to keep bringing in young guys, and I wouldnt be against trading one or 2 of our older guys if the right offer is made, but we shouldnt be clearing the list to reset for 5 years down the track.