Blair Hartley

[The Big Richo]

You need to be careful about cutting too deep, too quickly. North is a great example of how things can go horribly, horribly wrong when you do that.

The club as a whole is in a far better place now than the last time we were rebuilding. It should make the process run much more smoothly. Should being the operative word there

I think you have to be aggressive. We added Martin, Astbury, Grimes in Hardwick's first draft and traded in Houli and Grigg in his first trade period. The core of a flag was in place and we built around that for the next 6 years.

It's also a bit scary to think Hardwick had four of our greatest ever players on his list when he started and added a fifth straight away. I'm not sure we have anything like that in our young players at the moment.

 

[Tigers2011]

I think you have to be aggressive. We added Martin, Astbury, Grimes in Hardwick's first draft and traded in Houli and Grigg in his first trade period. The core of a flag was in place and we built around that for the next 6 years.

It's also a bit scary to think Hardwick had four of our greatest ever players on his list when he started and added a fifth straight away. I'm not sure we have anything like that in our young players at the moment.

Only Bolton & Balta remotely near that level. Any others are purely hope.

 

[The_General]

Van Royeen went 2 picks after Tom Brown

Build a bridge.

 

[Scoop]

Build a bridge.

Naw internally we need to lean into it and understand how our processes lead to this mistake. Can't avoid it. Huge miss.

 

[The_General]

Naw internally we need to lean into and understand how our processes lead to this mistake. Can't avoid it. Huge miss.

It ain't going to swap picks back, and as I keep saying, too early to know what Brown will become. Likewise, we don't know what JVR will finish Like either.

It's happened, pissing and moaning here isn't achieving anything.

 

[Scoop]

It ain't going to swap picks back, and as I keep saying, too early to know what Brown will become. Likewise, we don't know what JVR will finish Like either.

It's happened, pissing and moaning here isn't achieving anything.

Thanks Boss, I'll put the beanie back on.

 

[taraba]

It ain't going to swap picks back, and as I keep saying, too early to know what Brown will become. Likewise, we don't know what JVR will finish Like either.

It's happened, pissing and moaning here isn't achieving anything.

No but it needs to be looked at regardless. There was a rare golden opportunity to recruit a key forward that we desperately needed yet we went for a flanker instead.

It’s not the first time we’ve done this either and it’s just bad list management. Regardless of how good Brown may end up. Most of us would just like to understand why as it doesn’t make any sense.

 

[The_General]

No but it needs to be looked at regardless. There was a rare golden opportunity to recruit a key forward that we desperately needed yet we went for a flanker instead.

It’s not the first time we’ve done this either and it’s just bad list management. Regardless of how good Brown may end up. Most of us would just like to understand why as it doesn’t make any sense.

We'll never find out. Even if the club investigate, they'll never make it public.

It could be they had a FA Forward lined up who pulled out. Maybe they don't think JVR has much growth in him. It could just be they thought Brown was too good to passover. *shrug*

I agree, with Jack hobbling around and the absence of Lynch exaggerating our problems, we're in dire straits up forward. It looks like an obvious list needs miss. But if they went for "talent" over "needs" (in their eyes) they've just gone best available. Not gonna plug the whole in our list though.

 

[T-Shirt Tommy]

No but it needs to be looked at regardless. There was a rare golden opportunity to recruit a key forward that we desperately needed yet we went for a flanker instead.

It’s not the first time we’ve done this either and it’s just bad list management. Regardless of how good Brown may end up. Most of us would just like to understand why as it doesn’t make any sense.

Not that I agree with it, but the only reason I can think of is that they went with best available (according to their data and opinions) as opposed to list need.

 

[fastin bulbous]

if dusty went to GC for their 1st rounder I recon we’d be paying some of his wage. Half or all for a year and a top 10 pick sounds ok to me. Not as though we have a whole lot of stars to pay next year and cotch/Riewoldt will be gone

 

[Cooper O'Reilly]

if dusty went to GC for their 1st rounder I recon we’d be paying some of his wage. Half or all for a year and a top 10 pick sounds ok to me. Not as though we have a whole lot of stars to pay next year and cotch/Riewoldt will be gone

I agree apart from paying all of Dusty salary. Yes we’d have to pay some but no where near all. I’m sure the AFL a would be able to contribute some via their ambassador rort (sorry I meant rule)

 

[snags]

I think you have to be aggressive. We added Martin, Astbury, Grimes in Hardwick's first draft and traded in Houli and Grigg in his first trade period. The core of a flag was in place and we built around that for the next 6 years.

It's also a bit scary to think Hardwick had four of our greatest ever players on his list when he started and added a fifth straight away. I'm not sure we have anything like that in our young players at the moment.

We were arse out at that point. Hopefully next coach has more to work with. Still some triple premiership players on the list.

 

[thegdog]

I agree apart from paying all of Dusty salary. Yes we’d have to pay some but no where near all. I’m sure the AFL a would be able to contribute some via their ambassador rort (sorry I meant rule)

If the great man leaves, it could be a Deliedo moment for our future fortunes

 

[taraba]

Dusty leaving and playing his 300th elsewhere would be bloody horrible to watch and I’m not sure I could.

 

[craig]

You’re forgetting we are talking about the Suns, not a proper team. Dimma and Dusty would be a dream result for the AFL. Could easy see them making finals next year and interest going through the roof

The AFL would give them a very very nice draw too I bet.

 

[TigerMasochist]

Dusty leaving and playing his 300th elsewhere would be bloody horrible to watch and I’m not sure I could.

Meh. If he went elsewhere then I wouldn't bother watching him play 300 / 500 or whatever, unless the side he was playing for was actually playing against us on the day.

 

[Smoking Aces]

I think you have to be aggressive. We added Martin, Astbury, Grimes in Hardwick's first draft and traded in Houli and Grigg in his first trade period. The core of a flag was in place and we built around that for the next 6 years.

It's also a bit scary to think Hardwick had four of our greatest ever players on his list when he started and added a fifth straight away. I'm not sure we have anything like that in our young players at the moment.

At the end of 2016 sown thought we had to start the rebuild process again. Yea the list has holes but it’s nowhere as bad a some suggest.

 

[tigerdell]

Clarkson started at Hawthorn in 2005, made finals in 2007, won a flag in 2008. Maybe pinched that one a little early and were at peak from 2012-15.

Bomber Thompson started in 2000 and was immediately 5th. Then dealt with the list took three years to get back to finals in 2005, won the flag in 2009.

Hardwick started in 2010, finals 2013, flag 2017.

What we can take from that is with a fresh start we should be looking to renovate the list for the next three or so years, then make finals and build to a flag. So if a player doesn't have 5-6 years of peak footy left right now then they really aren't any use to us apart from being a short term fix.

That means over the next three years we should definitely be managing out via trade or delisting:

Vlastuin, Prestia, Grimes, Martin, Riewoldt, Cotchin, Lynch, Soldo, Nankervis, McIntosh, Broad and Pickett, joining Tarrant and Castagna who have already gone.

That's 14 who need to go in three years so the break down might be something like:

2023: Tarrant, Castagna, Riewoldt, Cotchin, Pickett. Ideally you would cut deeper early but we are in a hole with our draft picks because of the Hopper trade so we probably can't afford to go much deeper.

2024: Prestia, Grimes, McIntosh, Nankervis

2025: Broad, Martin, Soldo, Lynch.

The issue we have is Lynch and Vlastuin are contracted until 2025 and 2026 so I'd be testing the market for them. You'd have to look at the value of Martin, Soldo and Broad if a deal came up as well.

Then you have your maybes, guys who might be around for another tilt but are right on the edge age wise.

Baker, Short, Taranto, Hopper, Bolton, Graham, Young, Miller.

I'd have all of them on the table to trade if the deal was right. Sounds harsh but the fact is when Hardwick started in 2010 he had Riewoldt, Cotchin, Edwards and Rance on the list who would play in 2017. Reality is very few of our next premiership players are on our list right now and if they are they are in the 18-22 age bracket.

Maybe it follows the coach's timeline.
But the examples mentioned, the clubs were at low points and so their lists were fairly ordinary. Dimma joined us at a deep deep low.

Instead this time we are starting the race mid-place. With elite stars already in place.
I've said it before and will say it again.
Bolton. Balta. Gibcus.
Matchwinners.
3 of the big 4 needed to be a winning side.
Add in Rioli, Baker, Short as elite.

Clearly we need more. But its a significant nucleus.
Ryan coming on and Lynch coming back will be the 2 key factors over the next few years

 

[The Big Richo]

At the end of 2016 sown thought we had to start the rebuild process again. Yea the list has holes but it’s nowhere as bad a some suggest.

Maybe it follows the coach's timeline.
But the examples mentioned, the clubs were at low points and so their lists were fairly ordinary. Dimma joined us at a deep deep low.

Not sure I share your optimism.

Right now in terms of AFL quality, physically capable, key position forwards and defenders we have Balta.

In the midfield we have Taranto and Bolton who are A Graders.

The gaps in our list are huge and as our champs break down it becomes evident there is very little under them.

 

[Carter]

Not sure I share your optimism.

Right now in terms of AFL quality, physically capable, key position forwards and defenders we have Balta.

In the midfield we have Taranto and Bolton who are A Graders.

The gaps in our list are huge and as our champs break down it becomes evident there is very little under them.

The yawning chasms in our list are becoming increasingly apparent.

I think some fans are in for a shock in 2024.

We need to get creative this off-season, that's for sure.