Ben Cousins a Tiger (Merged)

[gustiger12]

ahh well put rokin.tiger i can twait for RD 1, 90,000 people and richmonds home game, $$$

yeah they can boo all they like but when he Cuz gets his first touch the roar of the tiger will shake the G

Huh and you all wondered why Eddie was so hell bent on preventing this outcome.

He will rue the day he abandoned the round 1 fixture with the Mighty Tiges.

Gee could have helped replenish some of his 8 mil.

 

[GD]

Interesting four players you chose there mk33.
So does this mean you see him as the lifeblood of the club, the future of the club, a broken down hack, or the biggest mistake we ever made?

Jordan McMahon is far from the biggest mistake. People please realise that he's not drafted to be our full back or our full forward, he's drafted to run with the ball and create distance with his disposal.

He has been front and square in every one of our victories... we had more victories this year than any year in the past 8... he also allowed our FB, CHB and BP (Moore - who could have been an all-australian nominee) to remain at home and give some solidity to our defence.

Yeah, he made mistakes.. but grow up people, he'll be here for a few more years yet. Realistically he should be on a wing.. but we have a champion #12 and a champion #3 on each wing already.

 

[Ian4]

I don't understand why you support (or pretend to) this club. Without exception, every post I've ever read from you is negative. I've been following this club for over 30 years. I'm also a realist and have been extremely critical of the club in terms of recruitment, player development, coaching and off-field management (especially financial) over the last 10-15 years in particular. This club should be far greater now than what it is. We were in every sense key rivals with Collingwood and Carlton in the 70's and early 80's, but lost our way while Essendon and teh Interstate clubs went past us.

However in a number of areas this club is now improving. For a start, the club is now profitable and hopefully the debt will be decreasing. With better finances come more resources to improve the key operational areas of the club (as mentioned above). Miller is gone and while I have some doubts about Cameron, at least the right types of players were recruited in the recent drafting period. My perception is that we now have an improved list, and it's incumbent on Wallace to get the best out of them. Our results will dictate his future and so be it.

Not every player on a list can be/is a champion - the salary cap alone sees to that. While Johnson has probably gone on one year too long and I'm also no fan of Pettifer and McMahon, by and large the player list has improved significantly. It does have youth and structured balance (see Phantom's recent post). The older players you list all still have on-field value, while many of the younger ones either haven't been given sufficient opportunity or have been set-back by injury. Polak's had an unfortunate accident while Coughlan is a super player badly affected by footy related injuries.

As members and supporters, it's our role to support the club financially and emotionally, and influence continued on and off-field improvement as much as we can so that we can gain maximum enjoyment for ourselves and have a better club to hand on to our kids and the next generation of Tiger supporters. We certainly have the right to criticise when the club is not pursuing the correct path and there's been many times when I've felt the need to do that. However at the end of the day, for this club to be successful and become what we all want it to be, we've got to get behind it.

Life is short. None of us can ever undo the mistakes that we've made today. We can only learn from them and do better tomorrow. This club has made many mistakes over the past 25 years, some because we followed the old, outdated model of the 70's when it was successful. I would hope that these lessons have been well and truly learnt and we can now re-build it bit by bit. Constant negativity, without any reasoned balance, will get this club nowhere.

Debate and constructively question all aspects of the club as much as you like. Done in the right way, that can be very valuable. Being negative just for the sake ot it is a waste of time.

i'm another supporter of this fantastic post, but dont be too harsh on the claw, while i used to disagree with everything he said, i have changed my tune and a lot of his posts are valid

Claw,

The youth policy was abandoned in this case because another young player was not going to help Wallace in this, a big year for him personally.
Quite simply, if we make finals he stays....if we don't, it will be hard to justify him staying.

I have been a strong advocate of Cousins NOT being drafted by the club, not only because of his drug habit, but more importantly for us...from purely a footballing point of view...he is over 30 years of age, has had bad hammys now for a while as well, and has won everything there is to win in footy.
So is the hunger there?
Now on top of the pure footballing perspective....you add a serious drug a habit as well a the intense media exposure and over the top scrutiny Cousins and the club will be under now, all which could so easily blow up in our faces (The headlines on the front of today's Herald Sun just an example of what we should expect)....then I think I can justify my concern over his drafting.

Having said that though....its been done...Cousins is now a Tiger....and for what its worth, I may come on here as frustrated as everybody else when our players play poorly and deserve a spray, but I'm certainly not going to give Cousins a spray before he even kicks a ball with us.
He is now wearing a black jumper with a yellow sash on it and will get my full support....because the club is always bigger than the individual.

Ben Cousins failing and being delisted would justify original concerns on drafting him but this is also a time where the club is bigger than my own ego....and while it would be nice to come on here and say 'told you so' if he flops....I would much rather people on here give it to me in spades as Cuz holds up the Premiership Cup this season or next while wearing tigers jumper.

This is one time I really hope I am wrong.

So while I hear your concerns about Cousins...lets give him a go Claw and see what happens, eh? 8)

always a sensible poster livers. but i will admit there are some players in a RFC jumper that i just cannot support. mcdud being the perfect example

 

[Flea74]

My only concern re: Ben Cousins getting back to the form he showed at the Eagles alludes to a point I have read many times about his drug addiction.

It has been mentioned Ben has been a drug addict for many years and I would PRESUME that has meant he has trained and played games on "upper" type drugs LIKE speed and/or cocaine (as opposed to marijuana which I HAVE NOT read that Ben took; which would have a "downer" effect on his personality)...

Side note one... Pseudo ephedrine is available over the counter from any pharmacy in the cold medicine Sudafed and many non-professional sportsmen and women take this (and I am not talking about the "recommended dose") as they don't have to worry about getting drug tested. This drug is not taken by an athlete before a game of sport to just help his or her nose to stop dripping, but I am sure most PRE's are not that naive...

If Ben was indeed a drug addict for such a long period of time; it would be fair to say he didn't just take drugs in the off-season. So unless he went cold-turkey from March-September every year that he was an "addict"; he most probably would have trained with these drugs still in his system (so getting pumped through his heart)...

As anyone who may have had some experience with these type of drugs will attest; the energy they give you is unbelievable. As well as the confidence. (If you have no personal experience; don't pass an opposite judgment on my opinions; based on what you have heard from friends of friends or read online)...

Side note two; I am also sure I have read somewhere another Richmond player (no need for names); who on game day took simple caffeine pills based on hearing about the energy benefits they provide and then found out what he had taken was on the AFL banned substance list.

Taking these type of drugs while playing sport is obviously not the healthiest scenario for your heart; but it has been done for many years by many athletes.. Our culture tells us how bad drug taking is and the reason why (death) doesn't really come out in the open until an elite athlete dies of a heart attack; but many non-athletes put their heart through scenarios like an athlete every weekend... how many people that don't have to worry about being drug tested take "uppers" and go to a rave and dance for 5 hours in 40 degree heat inside a tent with no ventilation? If people who were drug free and simply standing nearby and witnessed the thin yet toned "dancing guy"; they would comment; "That guy is fit!" (yet maybe seeing him in a drug free situation we would think he just looks anemic and showing a lack of energy.)

My point is; Ben Cousins has been reported as a freak athlete and an amazingly hard-working footballer... this can't be denied. I just hope he realizes he can still achieve these same hard-working standards without relying on the aid of "uppers" and therefore he realizes the results will still come as long as he keeps working hard; naturally.

And for all kids out there reading... work hard naturally and believe in your ability without cutting corners. Talk to your coaches and family members and ask questions. Don't just try something because you want to be the best... and parents; support your children and know the option of drugs for kids in any situation is there and don't be blind and pretend it doesn't exist or that reading an opinion on PRE forum is going to be the catalyst for anyone to try drugs.

Go Ben; the Tiger faithful believe in you.

 

[kiwitiger]

Good post Flea,

There are alot of question marks on his past and what effect they will have on his playing future,

I think the biggest question, on his drug taking was how much, how long, how frequent.

And alot of addicts do need uppers to get them through their every day routines when they are feeling low, but we have to be carefull accusing him of things we dont know enough about.

And that really cut physique may have been aided by his drug taking, amphetimine based drugs act as a diuritic and strip offf body fat, but we are guessing here as well, likewise not enough info for us to draw conclusions,

And it really is amazing, if he was a full blown addict like he says, that he was able to perform at such a high standard.

But its all speculation .

 

[Flea74]

Cheers Kiwi...
Yes it does make you think doesn't it?
IF he was a full-blown drug addict at the same time he was a full-time footballer; I would think he would have had big time "crash days". For non-addicts, that would mean a day in bed.
For an addict that also needed to train and play at such a hi level; would that then mean another "upper" to get through at the same level he was at the day before?
Over many years of an addiction... well it gets quite scary really...

 

[Hayfever]

Great post Flea :clap

I'm inclined to believe elite athletes like Ben and Andrew Johns(Rugby League) operate on massive doses of the natural "drug" adrenaline because of the pure love for and excitement they get by participating at the highest level in a sport they excel at. http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-adrenaline.htm

After Johns admitted his battle with drugs during his career it seemed to be largely caused by trying to cope with the emotional highs and lows that come with sport. Injuries, others expectations, etc play a major part of the lows. Not knowing how to cope or hiding their problems can then make them vulnerable to artificial alternatives.

What was indisputable yesterday in his interviews was Cousin's sheer joy at being given another chance at AFL football. The natural highs he gets from competing will hopefully this time around be balanced by the stronger support systems in place around him and what he has learned from experience.

 

[Dyer Disciple]

The Cousins Phenom.

Incredible. Yesterday and finanicals aside, it lifts PRE to it's record visitors at one time as well.

I was just looking at the journo board and staggered that of the 20 articles on the first page, 19 were Cousins related.

Staggering the saturation this has got.

I'm starting to think this is a bigger story than when Judd went to Carlton. Coverage wise.

 

[wammo]

Jordan McMahon is far from the biggest mistake. People please realise that he's not drafted to be our full back or our full forward, he's drafted to run with the ball and create distance with his disposal.

He has been front and square in every one of our victories... we had more victories this year than any year in the past 8... he also allowed our FB, CHB and BP (Moore - who could have been an all-australian nominee) to remain at home and give some solidity to our defence.

Yeah, he made mistakes.. but grow up people, he'll be here for a few more years yet. Realistically he should be on a wing.. but we have a champion #12 and a champion #3 on each wing already.

Sorry GD, no offense meant, just making a little joke.

 

[Tigers of Old]

The Cousins Phenom.

Incredible. Yesterday and finanicals aside, it lifts PRE to it's record visitors at one time as well.

I was just looking at the journo board and staggered that of the 20 articles on the first page, 19 were Cousins related.

Staggering the saturation this has got.

I'm starting to think this is a bigger story than when Judd went to Carlton. Coverage wise.

No doubt this will be putting money in the club's coffers.
This story is a monster whichever way you look at it.

Cousins may be playing for a low wage but he must be rubbing his hands together at the thought of his autobiography sales.

 

[Baloo]

The coverage, surge of membership and good will towards the RFC that Cousins has generated makes me think we've already recovered our outlay for him. From here on end it's just gravy.

 

[benny_furs]

Flea - most of your post is of the assumption that Cousins was taking drugs during the season.

I firmly remember him saying he has never taken a drug during the season. Sure he may have been flat out lying, but suggestions that he was ever playing with the after effects of taking drugs is ridiculous. Match day testing is stronger than anything else and for all his downfalls Cuz has always been commited to getting the best out of his football during the season.

I find it hard to accept someone could perform at Chris Judd's level while taking drugs in between matches, so I'd say common sense is in Ben's favour.

It's more likely that he did go cold turkey from March-September every year than to later lie about being clean, taking drugs in between matches and still performing at the Judd/Ablett/Kerr levels. He's an obsessive person, when he has matches to focus on and prepare for he can go without drugs.

 

[Ghost of 29]

Flea - most of your post is of the assumption that Cousins was taking drugs during the season.

I firmly remember him saying he has never taken a drug during the season. Sure he may have been flat out lying, but suggestions that he was ever playing with the after effects of taking drugs is ridiculous. Match day testing is stronger than anything else and for all his downfalls Cuz has always been commited to getting the best out of his football during the season.

I find it hard to accept someone could perform at Chris Judd's level while taking drugs in between matches, so I'd say common sense is in Ben's favour.

It's more likely that he did go cold turkey from March-September every year than to later lie about being clean, taking drugs in between matches and still performing at the Judd/Ablett/Kerr levels. He's an obsessive person, when he has matches to focus on and prepare for he can go without drugs.

If Cuzz took ice or some other upper then played footy he would have almost certainly dropped dead on the footy field, so I would say that he played clean.

Anyway, why worry about this now? The guy said he is clean, he still hasn't tested positive, so we treat him like anyone else.

I don't think we will see the Ben that ran around 3 yrs ago for the Eagles, but even if he gets back to 90% of what he was, that is still light years ahead of 98% of the AFL.

 

[Inspector]

Would have been great to be a fly on the way in the rooms with him getting to know the other tiger players he will be next to Thomson & Gourdis with the lockers saw on the news after training that he got into a car with Joel Bowden.

 

[Flea74]

It's more likely that he did go cold turkey from March-September every year than to later lie about being clean, taking drugs in between matches and still performing at the Judd/Ablett/Kerr levels. He's an obsessive person, when he has matches to focus on and prepare for he can go without drugs.

"In medical terminology, an addiction is a state in which the body relies on a substance for normal functioning and develops physical dependence, as in drug addiction. When the drug or substance on which someone is dependent is suddenly removed, it will cause withdrawal, a characteristic set of signs and symptoms. Addiction is generally associated with increased drug tolerance. In physiological terms, addiction is not necessarily associated with substance abuse since this form of addiction can result from using medication as prescribed by a doctor."

Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction

Benny and Ghost... We don't know the whole story. And as I mentioned in my initial post re: playing sport on "uppers"; If someone reading that initial post has little or no personal experience on the matter; I don't feel they are qualified to sweep my opinion under the carpet... Some people have dropped dead on sporting fields with tests later proving they were on "uppers"; some have been lucky enough not too...

"Match day testing is stronger than anything else..."... um; not so sure about that. It has got better over the last couple of years; but there is a lot more going on behind the scenes than we think; from the moment the final siren sounds until the laboratory testing the urine has completed their tasks. There always is more than meets the eye when professional sport and the almighty dollar means so much in modern day culture.

The reason I brought this up now is because I support Ben and like Hayfever touched on with his reference to Andrew Johns; I believe Ben needs support in not just footy; but his life to fully over-come his addiction and help him through the lows. I brought this up now in the hope that all PRE's realize Ben is an addict and try and not put too much extra pressure on Ben to reach the footy heights he has achieved in the past; when he was a professional footballer and a self-acknowledged drug addict during the same time period.

I believe he can play great footy and live his life without the aid of drugs.

 

[Ghost of 29]

Good post flea.

The wiki definition is pretty good, but from some personal experience addiction, be it alcohol or drugs, takes on so many different forms that it would be almost impossible to correctly summarise them all into one neat definition.

I do think that many people who are "addicted" are more "over users" because they either enjoy it or think why have one when I can have 10. They get to a point where it has consumed their lives and they don't even realise it.

I have written before about my now deceased uncle who was a genuine alcoholic. He needed alcohol and for years fought a losing battle with his demons, but wasn't able to handle it at all and would appear rolling drunk after only a few.

 

[benny_furs]

"In medical terminology, an addiction is a state in which the body relies on a substance for normal functioning and develops physical dependence, as in drug addiction. When the drug or substance on which someone is dependent is suddenly removed, it will cause withdrawal, a characteristic set of signs and symptoms. Addiction is generally associated with increased drug tolerance. In physiological terms, addiction is not necessarily associated with substance abuse since this form of addiction can result from using medication as prescribed by a doctor."

Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction

Benny and Ghost... We don't know the whole story. And as I mentioned in my initial post re: playing sport on "uppers"; If someone reading that initial post has little or no personal experience on the matter; I don't feel they are qualified to sweep my opinion under the carpet... Some people have dropped dead on sporting fields with tests later proving they were on "uppers"; some have been lucky enough not too...

If people are dropping dead on sporting fields because of "uppers" then you'll need to explain how Ben can run himself harder than anyone else on the ground and still bust a gut in the last 5 minutes of tight games without it holding him back.

I never meant any disrespect to your opinion, but I think there is no reason to question this aspect of his addiction.

Ben admitted he was a drug addict, yet he also said he never took drugs during the season.

If he did take drugs during the season, why wouldn't he come clean about that too? How could he bust a gut late in close games without it holding him back?

I don't see why you would be suspicious in this regard. The addiction quote you used (above) is more likely to not apply to Ben than for him to have been taking them during the season.

 

[Flea74]

No worries Benny, no disrespect taken... a healthy PRE forum back and forth posting that opens peoples' eyes further to the dangers of using drugs is a good thing.

I am sure Ben Cousins would be ok knowing that his problems with drugs have made it somewhat easier for coaches/parents everywhere to discuss these dangers with their players/ kids.

How-ever I think you are missing my point. People have dropped dead on sporting fields while using "uppers".

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/news/2003/02/25/stringer_ephedra_ap/

http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0054.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/newsid_2380000/newsid_2383200/2383223.stm

Some have been lucky enough not too.

"...you'll need to explain how Ben can run himself harder than anyone else on the ground and still bust a gut in the last 5 minutes of tight games without it holding him back."

Some players have found the balance in their drug taking and have worked out how to best use "uppers" to their advantage.

"Uppers" don't hold you back; that's the reason they are taken...

"If he did take drugs during the season, why wouldn't he come clean about that too?"

Ben Cousins has admitted he is a drug addict. The reason I addressed the Wikipedia quote is to try and better explain that people cannot just switch off an addiction when-ever they want... and "why wouldn't Ben come clean about the full details of his addiction?"

Well have a think about it... really have a think about what ANY sportsperson has achieved on the field.

Then think about what would be the ramifications of ANY AFL players' on field deeds IF they did admit to taking drugs during the season.

Think Grand Finals, Coleman Medals, Norm Smith Medals and Brownlow Medals.

Don't just think about the ramifications to the player and his team-mates... think about other aspects like sponsors and the AFL; plus all the gambling agencies that deal with betting on AFL games as well...

Like Hayfever said; elite athletes like Ben and Andrew Johns do operate on massive doses of their own natural body producing adrenaline... I believe Ben can contribute in a positive way on the footy field for the Tigers using this and this alone.

 

[benny_furs]

Some interesting points...

I retain hope he didn't take drugs during the season on two things.

One, there was scintillating pressure on Ben to come clean and say "I'm a drug addict". When he released his first video statement he never once admitted to being an addict, which rightly or not, was seen by the public as a sign he wasn't ready to overcome his demons.

The extent of his addiction will never be known, and his statement was to show he has accepted he needs help more than anything. This may mean his addiction was out of control to the point where he took drugs during the season, but I'm not reading too much into him using the words "drug addict" in a statement. The ramifications of saying he took them during the season, as you have pointed out, meant that he was forced to deny it, and looking at his reluctance to come clean this means that point is invalid.

The second point I have hope for lies in Ben's addictive nature being controlled by the structure of a football club for many years. His drug problem grew each pre-season when he didn't have a constant short-term focus on AFL every week. While his addicition cleary went out of control in the off season, I wouldn't put it beyond him to release his addicition through training, preperation and match focus.

Afterall, he has admitted the same qualities that saw him latch onto drugs are very similar to the ones he used to get the most out of his body, so a connection between the two is possible.

I agree that in the future he can continue to use these qualities to get the best out of himself while controlling these qualities in other areas of his life. It seems with the information we have on his past it is too hard to draw an accurate picture of where the line stopped (excuse the pun).

 

[Tigers of Old]

I am pleased Cousins is making his intentions known that he's a changed man in a new environment etc..he's certainly making all the right noises.
However it is interesting to read reports in the HUN today that the club has Cuz on a one month good behaviour policy. They obviously want to see actions as opposed to words. Fair enough too given Cousins history at WC.

Meanwhile, Kim Hagdorn reports Richmond has put Cousins on a one-month good behaviour trial.

The 30-year-old has agreed to a strict disciplinary code, with any breach resulting in instant dismissal.

Tigers coach Terry Wallace has insisted Cousins submit to AFL-imposed drug tests, including up to three urine samples a week and a hair-follicle test every three months.

His contract will be terminated if he is late to training, misses a recovery session or team meeting, or repeats any of the indiscretions that forced West Coast to sack him.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,24827598-19742,00.html