-
IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Atheism
- Thread starter Disco08
- Start date
Disco08 said:
Isn't Buddhism about 'reaching enlightenment'? Despite there being much wisdom in it, it seems to me fundamentally inward looking.
In the areas where Buddhism is prevalent, it doesn't seem to have spent much energy changing these evils, not that I'd ever heard anyway. In fact in the East tyranny seems to have flourished. This is the point that Athiests seem to miss. Much good has been done in the name if Christianity. For instance do a little research on these topics:
Where did the school of the air come from?
How did Aboriginal come to be able to read and write prior to 1967?
Where did the RFDS come from?
Why do so many hospitals have religious names?
Why was much classical music written?
Who kept ancient knowledge alive during the Dark Ages?
Who was the first man to actually enact legislation against slavery, and what faith was he?
i wont deny that many christians have done good, but how many of these things were done for 'harvesting' reasons? ie. to save some souls, get in good with god. also, to keep the poor happy, keep em from revolting, promising salvation.
much of this is about control.
much of this is about control.
Buddhists believe in non-violence, which is probably why they haven't been able to do much against the tyranny you're referring to.
Their noble eight fold path seems to be a pretty good guide as to how to live your life though and not 'inward looking' in the slightest. Strange they were able to come up with this without any guidance from Jesus or christianity in general isn't it?
I don't think atheists 'miss' the points you made. No one is arguing that good stuff hasn't been done by christians. What many will argue though is that those individuals with enough compassion to carry out these deeds would have done so with or without their religion in most cases. You're also listing stuff that happened during a time when virtually every resident of western countries was considered a christian so presumably it was pretty hard to credit the good stuff to someone that wasn't considered a christian.
Their noble eight fold path seems to be a pretty good guide as to how to live your life though and not 'inward looking' in the slightest. Strange they were able to come up with this without any guidance from Jesus or christianity in general isn't it?
I don't think atheists 'miss' the points you made. No one is arguing that good stuff hasn't been done by christians. What many will argue though is that those individuals with enough compassion to carry out these deeds would have done so with or without their religion in most cases. You're also listing stuff that happened during a time when virtually every resident of western countries was considered a christian so presumably it was pretty hard to credit the good stuff to someone that wasn't considered a christian.
Six Pack said:
The Bible implores people to actually 'do good'. Don't just talk about it, don't just believe it, live it!!!! Thats why in countries with a Christian background are often 'free' countries in which individuals had rights. Thats why Christian sought to live out their faith by:
Doing missionsary work
Supporting the welfare of the poor
Building and supporting hospitals
Supporting schools for the underprivelidged
Investigating the natural world (science)
Trying to apply their Christian faith to the world of politics
Giving to those 'less fortunate'
Speaking out against dictatorial government policies (do you remember the Anglican Church speaking out on WorkChoices?).
ETC
I'm not sure where control comes into it. Churches are to some extent contolling as they have an authority structure. In nations with a Christian heritage people generally have freedom of conscience so they have the right to believe and say what they like. Try doing this in the a nation like the Sudan with a Moslem cultural heritage!
Disco08 said:
Couple of misconceptions here. There have been unbelievers in every generation. There are also hypocritical pew warmers. Lets look at two men of Faith from roughly 100 years ago: General William Booth of the Salvation Army.
and Rev. John Flynn of the Australian Inland mission. Read their stories and try to show how faith was not absolutely integral to what they achieved.
t-rob said:Why are we even having this debate.
(Please note the deliberate punctuation)
Good point, Its Christmas eve and I really should be spending more time with the family.
At the end of the day I frequent this thread because I think the discussions are interesting and well worth having. I certain have learnt a lot while being involved.
Merry Chistmas every one
artyfest :gotigers
Djevv said:
Nice stories to be sure but not sure how you can say they wouldn't have gone on to do the great things they did without religion. Both were into the church at an early age. In fact I think it's selling these men short to say that they wouldn't have become the philanthropists they were without the church.
Merry Christmas, enjoy.
Djevv said:
Main issue with Buddhism is that to achieve enlightenment walking away from want is one of the biggest steps you need to take. For this reason, most monks live in poverty, while up until the 20th century being a Christian minister of nearly any pursuasion was a financially good career.
On you list, are you seriously listing slavery?? I thought the Bible in several sections specifically referred to slaves, with them being handed out like candy by God to his believers.
Djevv said:
Now much of this good work is primarily for promotion and recruitment?
1) No good ever came of missionary work, this is 100% recruitment
2) Welfare for the poor? Want some soup, gotta hear about the Bible
3) Hospitals I will give you
4) Schools - 100% about brainwashing the next generation
5) Are you serious about science? Christians killed people who said the world was not flat with the earth at the centre of the universe. Even now, millions are being spent not on researching how the world was created, but proving evolution is wrong and creationism is right. How can science be pure if your outcome is predetermined as a 100% no fail possibility?
6) Politics - How is this good? Using their will to force politicians to act against the will of the electorate in favour of church policy? There is a reason for laws seperating church and state, and its because just about every time in history the church has help secular power, it has been corrupted. Also if a government is representing church politics, what about the rest of the population not of the faith? Do they just bugger off like the Israelis, or do we kill them like was done in South America?
7) Giving to the less fortunate - again, you only receive if you believe, or are willing to have a long chat
8) Speaking out against dictatorial Govt policies - Given I know several churches of Salvation Army and Evangelical faith which have told members who they can marry and who they cannot marry (or they will be banished from the church), bit of pot calling the kettle black here.
As for Christian nations having more freedoms, don't get so self righteous. The West has only had proper democratic principles for 100 years. Before that women were excluded, and before that the poor were excluded (you often had to be a land owner), and before that those outside nobility were excluded. Most of the Asian, African, and South American nations are only newly independant, having been the b1tches of European empires until the last 50-100 years. Its a bit much to ask these nations which are only new to democracy (let alone managing their own affairs) to get it right in the first 5 minutes. This is especially as much of the past 60 years saw massive interference in any democratic structures set up by the United States and the Soviet Union in their little Cold War. How many democratic free countries had revolutions sponsored from abroad because their politics did not agree with either the USSR or the USA?
Six Pack said:
t-rob said:
Because Christians are telling me I'm going to hell despite being a good person.
jayfox said:
Curious to hear your reason why. The reason I posted was D was insinuating Christians only do good for righteous and good reasons, and if it wasn't for Christians we wouldn't have democracy and freedom. I disagree because the former happens with other faiths and like many other faiths Christian good merits usually come with strings attached (like Muslim moneys for Palestine which often go to funding suicide bombers or their families).
Hope you and your family have a great Christmas too.
Dear Atheists, I hope that you feel the Christmas Spirit tonight and on Christmas Day. I really do.
You cant prove it, but by God I can feel it. Chills up the spine, the great feeling through your whole body.
Pity we cant keep it through the whole year.
Have a great time. God bless you all. Have a great time.
You cant prove it, but by God I can feel it. Chills up the spine, the great feeling through your whole body.
Pity we cant keep it through the whole year.
Have a great time. God bless you all. Have a great time.
