Atheism

[Djevv]

Sheesh, Jay you deserve the Lleyton Hewitt award for keeping the ball in play with that many questioners! Hard questions too.

From our perspective free-will and destiny seem in contradiction. Some things, like death and taxes, seem pre-ordained, but mostly we live in a world of free will. I think really, thats the way to approach things, the way we experience them. If God knows everything about us then maybe he can predict, like a physics equation predicts the orbit of the moon, what will happen to us.

God, being outside space and time, and in a mode of existance that we can barely guess at - self existance????? - has knowledge isn't available to the likes of us, so why worry about it? Perhaps our lives are pre-ordained, but only from His perspective, not ours.

 

[Disco08]

See this is where you are putting human limitations on a spiritual being of unspeakable power. Even if the result is determined, as you say it has to be in order for anyone to know what it is, then it is determined by you, in the future. But God is not held by time and space as we are, so He can see the future, without affecting your ability to decide it for yourself.

Yep, can't argue with that. It is however the only way you can 'rationalise' it which makes little sense unless you are prepared to believe in a being who willingly created billions of souls with the full knowledge that they would spend eternity suffering.

 

[t-rob]

Yep, can't argue with that. It is however the only way you can 'rationalise' it which makes little sense unless you are prepared to believe in a being who willingly created billions of souls with the full knowledge that they would spend eternity suffering.

Speak for yourself, I emjoy my life.

:hihi

 

[t-rob]

If you have the time and want to listen to a more eloquent Christian than I...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGJcjuRJydI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY51gfGEcho

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tadENf9NEhE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIRDl8cVLvg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC7nq5ZsVvc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbtbe_OZhFg

bump

 

[Disco08]

Got one minute into the first one before I thought he made a pretty obviously stupid point.

Basically - why should an atheist want to speak out against religion? In Dinesh's words "I don't believe in unicorns, but I haven't written any books on the subject".

Are unicorn's affecting society the way religion is?

 

[Disco08]

The next point is just as bad. We have christianity to thank for all the compassion, gender equality, personal dignity, equality in general and antipathy to oppression and slavery in the world today.

Makes you wonder how Buddhism came to honour these principles without any christian influence.

 

[Tigers of Old]

The next point is just as bad. We have christianity to thank for all the compassion, gender equality, personal dignity, equality in general and antipathy to oppression and slavery in the world today.

Makes you wonder how Buddhism came to honour these principles without any christian influence.

Doesn't matter because they are doomed to hell for all eternity apparently. :

 

[Six Pack]

Christians didn't mind all the money they made from slaves down through the centuries.

 

[Tigers of Old]

The whole 'my religion is bigger and better than your religion' is why the world is pear shaped.

Religion sucks basically.

Believe in yourself and treat others with respect and you will live good life on this earth.

After that who really knows!

 

[1eyedtiger]

I think this is my first post on the Atheist thread but I just wanted to let you guys know my personal beliefs regarding this issue.

1/ I don't believe in god. (therefore I'm an atheist). I simply can't put the entire universe down as being the work of one entity.

2/ I believe there is an afterlife and some sort of existence past physical death. Too much weird stuff goes on in this world. You can't dismiss everything as being a hoax, fake, whatever.

3/ I separate spirituality from religion as a result of the above points. Some people have trouble with that for some reason. It's pretty natural to me.

4/ Scientific evidence is irrelevant in this debate because it doesn't prove anything either way. Strictly speaking, science cannot prove we even exist. (How can you exist if you can't prove where you are? What is outside the known universe?). Being here typing away is enough proof for me though. Therefore, just because something can be proven or not via scientific methods is of no consequence.

Just for the record, science cannot prove telepathy but when I was very young, I had a telepathic experience. My mother can recount the story. I haven't had another one since but I still believe it exists.

5/ If there is a god, I'll find out one day (probably when I die) and then I'll accept it. I believe that if there is a god, he would want each and every one of us to live our lives as we see fit as long as we aren't harming others. (This is more than I can say for some religious nuts). In the meantime, I would hate to waste a lifetime arguing about something which may or may not exist.
If there is no god, it doesn't really matter.

At the end of the day, I think everyone should just respect what others believe and live in peace. There's no need for violence and whatever else just because you disagree with someone.

Cheers.

 

[Disco08]

Here's an interesting read on Mr D'Souza.

 

[Tigers of Old]

I think this is my first post on the Atheist thread but I just wanted to let you guys know my personal beliefs regarding this issue.

Great post 1et.
I actually agree with plenty of what you say here.
I fundamentally have a problem with organised religions, not the idea of spirituality.

 

[t-rob]

Here's an interesting read on Mr D'Souza.

Another reputable source: "Happy Jihad's House of Pancakes".

:clap

 

[Disco08]

Did you read it?

 

[t-rob]

Did you read it?

Yes I read it, it was full of reasoned scientific debate:

"Like everything else that has issued from Dinesh's pen recently, it is as useful as the mourning howling of an exceptionally inbred village idiot."

"I hope to systematically demonstrate how this conservative hack is an inveterate liar who is willing to say anything to promote his odious version of religion on the American public."

"Even mildly *smile* worms buried deep below the surface of the Jovian moon Europa can see what is wrong with that."


Most of it was unadulterated twaddle (what is twaddle by the way?).

Take religion out of the debate and the atheists have nothing left to complain and whinge about.

Prove to me that God does not exist.

 

[Disco08]

Now I didn't say anything about it's base being scientific did I? I just found it interesting that Dinesh seems to use many of the tactics used by his contemporaries.

Which god do you want me to prove doesn't exist?

 

[t-rob]

Now I didn't say anything about it's base being scientific did I? I just found it interesting that Dinesh seems to use many of the tactics used by his contemporaries.

Which god do you want me to prove doesn't exist?

There is only one God.

He has a variety of names.

Explain to me where we all came from.

Surely you can see that the idea that it all started from cosmic dust that somehow collided to have a big bang or that the universe has always been around is as plausible a theory as God's existence.

 

[Disco08]

Not really, it's just that man is so vain he has to see himself as the center of the universe. It's actually all right to admit you don't know the answer to everything.

 

[t-rob]

Not really, it's just that man is so vain he has to see himself as the center of the universe. It's actually all right to admit you don't know the answer to everything.

So why attack someone else's beliefs so fervently?

Sport maybe?

???

 

[Disco08]

If someone states something as fact it should be expected that people will question it if they don't agree.

Has anyone attacked you for your belief that there is a higher power?