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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Atheism
- Thread starter Disco08
- Start date
Panthera tigris FC said:
God used the same or similar materials, like an architect would use the same or similar materials to construct things. This world is not perfect - the Bible clearly states this and even science confirms this fact.
An architect is limited by the resources available to them. God can make any resource he wants so that's clearly another pretty poor analogy.
A far better analogy would be a cook using steak and coriander to top of a pavlova, even though they had all this beautiful fruit available just because they wanted it to look like a Thai beef salad, for some unknown reason.
A far better analogy would be a cook using steak and coriander to top of a pavlova, even though they had all this beautiful fruit available just because they wanted it to look like a Thai beef salad, for some unknown reason.
Six Pack said:
No. I would argue that he has been "living without the law" and if he lives his life in a way that is honoring to God then he will be saved. I've given the verses for this heaps of times. Search "living without the law" in these threads.
tigertime2 said:
Another load of codswallop. People with different religious/cultural backgrounds call on their own religious figures and icons when in times of difficulty. Italians, although Christian, tend to invoke the Madonna, less so Jesus. Using religious insults against others is mostly a Western thing though in my experience.
tigertime2 said:
What has this quote got to do with fossils? Have you read the section this has been lifted from? He is describing the links between species, both extant and extinct. As Disco points out this has nothing to do with fossilisation.
Are you still struggling to find contradictory evidence to the theory? Are you still trying to shoe horn your god into the gaps? You wouldn't be the first.
???
Care to clarify this paragraph?
tigertime2 said:
However I am not referring to materials, but design. Plenty of examples of poor, or 'makeshift' design. This is easily explained by the contingent nature of evolution. What I don't understand is why an omnipotent god would do this?
Science has confirmed that the world is not perfect, eh? How would you define 'perfect'? Do you think there is some objective concept of perfection?
Panthera tigris FC said:
I am not trying to disprove evolution, merely pointing out you have some gapping holes in your evolutionary theory.
Yes, certainly - to put it in laymans terms science is like building a brick wall you find and put a theory/brick in the wall and when it is proven as fact the brick stays in the wall, when it is proven wrong the brick is replaced with the right fact/brick and so the process goes on. I am not saying that this process is bad, it is good for the benefit of Mankind - but if you expect me to give up my belief that God is the creator of the universe based on a Theory/brick then you are mistaken.
jayfox said:
Well done Jayfox..... also the Buddist monk uses his own righeousness for justification - which to God is abhorrent as salvation is by grace, it is the gift of God and cannot be earnt by our own works. Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life NO ONE comes unto the father but through me.
tigertime2 said:
So what are these holes?
There is no doubt that all living species on this planet have evolved throughout the history of life. The evidence supporting this matter is uneqivocal and easily accessible to anyone who cares to look. If you doubt this fact, I am all ears to hear the evidence against it.
You cast doubt, but present no evidence to support your assertions. Your only evidence is what could be construed of, at best, an honest misrepresentation of Darwin's writing and, at worst, wilful, dishonest quote mining with the aim to mislead.
So science is based on empirical evidence, and if evidence is discovered/generated that contradicts the prevailing theory then the theory is changed.....yes, that is about right.
What, exactly, is your belief in God based on? What about when the empirical evidence contradicts your beliefs? It must be the science that is mistaken? That is the message that I am getting from your posts.
If that is the case, then what you are saying is that your belief in God overrides anything that your senses detect (ie. what you see with your 2 eyes). It begs the question as to the basis of that belief and how you rule out the vagaries of human perception (something that the scientific method recognises and systematically addresses through the use of controls in experimentation).
tigertime2 said:
I love this bit. God apparently would rather us be an obedient puppy, good for nothing but does what its told, than actually live a good and loving life to make the world He created a better place.
The sense of priorities makes me convinced this is just church dogma, because why would an God need ants to bow down and worship?
Panthera tigris FC said:
Point 1: name one piece of evidence that you have that proves evolution over the creator?.
Point 2: No, the opposite. I see the wonders of God's creation the beautiful colours and the endless universe, the miracle of the birth of a newborn, the amazing capacity of the human brain etc as evidence of a creator. You cant put God into a test tube. I agree with scientific method, but do not agree with evolution over god science does not prove that and cannot prove that - how do I know? because the Bible tells me so. You disagree and that is fine that is your choice.
tigertime2 said:
You seem to misreading PT - he has never claimed evolution disproves the existence of God. It's literal minded Christians who see evolution as threat to the fictional narrative of Genesis, are threatened by this and therefore see the theory of evolution as somehow in opposition to religion. They then use bad science and theory to attack evolutionary theory and other branches of science.
You yourself cited the example of Anthony Garrett - a committed Christian and scientist who does not see any contradiction between evolutionary science and his faith - because he does not obstinately insist on a fundamentalist interpretation of the Bible. Why not learn something from his approach, since you used him as an example?
tigertime2 said:
I'll say it again. Christians do not have a monopoly on the beauty of the world and universe around us. Atheists and others just appreciate it in a different way.
Yes, we know you have a literal, fundamentalist interpretation of the Bible. You've told us many times. Good for you, but it proves nothing in terms of actual science. You are willing to accept science and the scientific method, except when it contradicts your religious dogmas. Poor thinking.
You are also prepared to label other religious approaches - Buddhism for example - as "abhorrent to God". Patronising and arrogant.
