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America, will they ever learn? (Gun Control Debate)
- Thread starter Tigertool
- Start date
Re: America, will they ever learn?
Like fallen empires before them, the American economy is in continuing decline because it was been transformed from a manufacturing economy into a consumer economy. Both the Chinese and Mexican economies, amongst others, are whipping the USA now.
We can see that here, with the decline of Holden & Ford, and the growth of Mexican companies like Mission Foods.
Economically & militarily they sit very much in the same position as Britain did in the late 19th century.
During the 20th century, Britain ended up scuttling its navy
The USA has a military that it cannot afford to fully deploy.
It's military is based on old technology - aicraft carriers and jets have been overtaken by rockets, lasers and satellites.
And BIG military has always been found to be inadequate against guerilla tactics, egs British Empire v American farmers, 1776-83, American GIs v Vietcong, 1965-1974.
And, personally, I don't think the sneeze / flu analogy is so relevant anymore, as the majority of our resource exports go elsewhere.
Who would Australia go to.
It won't need to go to, as the Chinese won't invade us, they will merely take us over.
Personally, as well as creating a US naval base in Darwin, it may also pay as well for us to set up a Chinese naval base in some other natural port in northern Australia, maybe Broome.
Selling our nation to overseas interests is something we do very well in Australia, like the "ladies of the wharf" in Les Miserables.
poppa x said:
Like fallen empires before them, the American economy is in continuing decline because it was been transformed from a manufacturing economy into a consumer economy. Both the Chinese and Mexican economies, amongst others, are whipping the USA now.
We can see that here, with the decline of Holden & Ford, and the growth of Mexican companies like Mission Foods.
Economically & militarily they sit very much in the same position as Britain did in the late 19th century.
During the 20th century, Britain ended up scuttling its navy
The USA has a military that it cannot afford to fully deploy.
It's military is based on old technology - aicraft carriers and jets have been overtaken by rockets, lasers and satellites.
And BIG military has always been found to be inadequate against guerilla tactics, egs British Empire v American farmers, 1776-83, American GIs v Vietcong, 1965-1974.
And, personally, I don't think the sneeze / flu analogy is so relevant anymore, as the majority of our resource exports go elsewhere.
Who would Australia go to.
It won't need to go to, as the Chinese won't invade us, they will merely take us over.
Personally, as well as creating a US naval base in Darwin, it may also pay as well for us to set up a Chinese naval base in some other natural port in northern Australia, maybe Broome.
Selling our nation to overseas interests is something we do very well in Australia, like the "ladies of the wharf" in Les Miserables.
Re: America, will they ever learn?
One tough fight there. :cutelaugh
A police force could have achieved the same.
The funniest that I remember were the marines landing on the beaches of Mogadishu in Somalia.
CNN cameras were already camped at the beach waiting for the marines to arrive.
Yep, the US marines certainly had a long term impact on Mogadishu. :cutelaugh
Personally, I think this is fantastic.
In our life time, we are getting a real time analogy of the fall of the Roman Empire.
WesternTiger said:
One tough fight there. :cutelaugh
A police force could have achieved the same.
The funniest that I remember were the marines landing on the beaches of Mogadishu in Somalia.
CNN cameras were already camped at the beach waiting for the marines to arrive.
Yep, the US marines certainly had a long term impact on Mogadishu. :cutelaugh
Personally, I think this is fantastic.
In our life time, we are getting a real time analogy of the fall of the Roman Empire.
Re: America, will they ever learn?
"Whipping" in what sense? Growth? Developing countries can be expected to have higher growth rates than industrialised countries even in good times.
And of all the fallen empires in world history, which ones declined because they transformed from a "manufacturing economy to a consumer economy"?
The Roman Empire? The Ottoman? The Byzantine? The Persian? The Mongol? The Spanish? The Han Dynasty?
Phantom said:
"Whipping" in what sense? Growth? Developing countries can be expected to have higher growth rates than industrialised countries even in good times.
And of all the fallen empires in world history, which ones declined because they transformed from a "manufacturing economy to a consumer economy"?
The Roman Empire? The Ottoman? The Byzantine? The Persian? The Mongol? The Spanish? The Han Dynasty?
Re: America, will they ever learn?
not sure how you can compare the downfall of the Australian automotive industry to Mission foods as an example of how Mexico economy is beating the Us economy. May as well throw Aldi in as an example of how Germany is also beating them. Btw, I thought Mission was a US coy?Phantom said:
Re: America, will they ever learn?
Which is bad of course, and Today Tonight would have you believe that this is further evidence of the drug fuelled gang violence that is running wild on our streets and is further representation the decline of western civilisation. Take at look at the trends of the last couple of decades and you'll see that crime (and violent crime) is way way down from a decade ago. Now if in five years the trend is still upward, then by all means lets start panicking.
People don't understand or care for statistics much - hence Phantom believes that because some personal acquaintance in the US told him that WHITE MIDDLE CLASS FAMILIES ARE SELLING DRUGS therefore the collapse of the American Empire is nigh. Which is kind of weird given his approach to analysing young player prospects through stats.
rosy23 said:
Which is bad of course, and Today Tonight would have you believe that this is further evidence of the drug fuelled gang violence that is running wild on our streets and is further representation the decline of western civilisation. Take at look at the trends of the last couple of decades and you'll see that crime (and violent crime) is way way down from a decade ago. Now if in five years the trend is still upward, then by all means lets start panicking.
People don't understand or care for statistics much - hence Phantom believes that because some personal acquaintance in the US told him that WHITE MIDDLE CLASS FAMILIES ARE SELLING DRUGS therefore the collapse of the American Empire is nigh. Which is kind of weird given his approach to analysing young player prospects through stats.
Re: America, will they ever learn?
My post was only in response to evo's claim that we've never been safer. was referring to available info about increases last year that indicated it probably wasn't the safest it's ever been from violence. The articles and stats I read were 2012 though. Maybe it's declined again already. I hope so.
antman said:
My post was only in response to evo's claim that we've never been safer. was referring to available info about increases last year that indicated it probably wasn't the safest it's ever been from violence. The articles and stats I read were 2012 though. Maybe it's declined again already. I hope so.
Re: America, will they ever learn?
In absolute historical terms Evo is right - if you live in a Western democratic state as a human being you have never been safer in terms of disease, crime, violence etc etc. Of course, nothing is perfect and things can change for the worse.
rosy23 said:
In absolute historical terms Evo is right - if you live in a Western democratic state as a human being you have never been safer in terms of disease, crime, violence etc etc. Of course, nothing is perfect and things can change for the worse.
Re: America, will they ever learn?
according to that Pinker presentation I posted, violent crimes (citing FBI figures) have been falling since the 1990s and are now back to approximately the same level as the 50s.
That's for the U.S though. I don't know specifically about Victoria.
according to that Pinker presentation I posted, violent crimes (citing FBI figures) have been falling since the 1990s and are now back to approximately the same level as the 50s.
That's for the U.S though. I don't know specifically about Victoria.
Re: America, will they ever learn?
Dunno about Vic but its falling here in QLD. A friend of mine, who is a lawyer campaigning for more controls on taser use, was interviewed on commercial radio about a year ago. He is a very understated, straight talking bloke. One of the Jocks asked him how Police were meant to cope with the rising crime. He said 'well I'll have to stop you there, the data clearly shows crime has been falling steadily since 1980 (? round there),' The Jocks went beserk. Switched off his mike and proceeded to abuse him. It was so bias and extreme it was bloody hilarious. We still laugh about it, he got 1 sentence in!
evo said:
Dunno about Vic but its falling here in QLD. A friend of mine, who is a lawyer campaigning for more controls on taser use, was interviewed on commercial radio about a year ago. He is a very understated, straight talking bloke. One of the Jocks asked him how Police were meant to cope with the rising crime. He said 'well I'll have to stop you there, the data clearly shows crime has been falling steadily since 1980 (? round there),' The Jocks went beserk. Switched off his mike and proceeded to abuse him. It was so bias and extreme it was bloody hilarious. We still laugh about it, he got 1 sentence in!
Re: America, will they ever learn?
Your are equating Mission Foods to Ford and Holden? Surely you could name a Mexican Car Company... Oh wait..
As for American Manufacturing it is rebounding big time. The low US dollar, the boom in US Gas and Oil supplies coupled with increased labour costs in China mean that manufacturing jobs are heading back to the USA.
Phantom said:
Your are equating Mission Foods to Ford and Holden? Surely you could name a Mexican Car Company... Oh wait..
As for American Manufacturing it is rebounding big time. The low US dollar, the boom in US Gas and Oil supplies coupled with increased labour costs in China mean that manufacturing jobs are heading back to the USA.
Re: America, will they ever learn?
From what I understand, Volkswagen, Nissan and Chevrolet have plants in Mexico, plus they have their own Mastretta.
Mexico doesn't have a competitive advantage in car manufacturing and don't specialise in it.
They do have major steel and other metallic industries, and food and beverage that they do well in.
As for American Manufacturing it is rebounding big time. The low US dollar, the boom in US Gas and Oil supplies coupled with increased labour costs in China mean that manufacturing jobs are heading back to the USA.
[/quote]
US industry is recovering.
It's last 3 years have been good, off a low base.
http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/industry/bigcharts-com/default.asp?timeframe=ThreeYear
But this is more financial and has little do with employment and infrastructure development.
Yes, US resources are good, especially pipelines.
My favourite is the Williams Company that I have bought & sold and made good money on since 2001.
http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=WMB&insttype=Stock&freq=2&show=&time=20
Big Charts is my favourite financial market browser.
One thing we can learn from the current US, a low dollar helps to make your industries competitive internationally.
Clearly something we have forgotten in Australia.
serpico66 said:
From what I understand, Volkswagen, Nissan and Chevrolet have plants in Mexico, plus they have their own Mastretta.
Mexico doesn't have a competitive advantage in car manufacturing and don't specialise in it.
They do have major steel and other metallic industries, and food and beverage that they do well in.
As for American Manufacturing it is rebounding big time. The low US dollar, the boom in US Gas and Oil supplies coupled with increased labour costs in China mean that manufacturing jobs are heading back to the USA.
[/quote]
US industry is recovering.
It's last 3 years have been good, off a low base.
http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/industry/bigcharts-com/default.asp?timeframe=ThreeYear
But this is more financial and has little do with employment and infrastructure development.
Yes, US resources are good, especially pipelines.
My favourite is the Williams Company that I have bought & sold and made good money on since 2001.
http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=WMB&insttype=Stock&freq=2&show=&time=20
Big Charts is my favourite financial market browser.
One thing we can learn from the current US, a low dollar helps to make your industries competitive internationally.
Clearly something we have forgotten in Australia.
Re: America, will they ever learn?
On your last point, have a little think about why the US dollar is weak and the Australian dollar is strong. Actually I'll give you a hint - it's something to do with our economy being one of the strongest OECD economies and the US economy being completely screwed as you've been telling us for the last few posts.
No one who exports anything "forgets" the importance of the relative strength of currencies.
Phantom said:
On your last point, have a little think about why the US dollar is weak and the Australian dollar is strong. Actually I'll give you a hint - it's something to do with our economy being one of the strongest OECD economies and the US economy being completely screwed as you've been telling us for the last few posts.
No one who exports anything "forgets" the importance of the relative strength of currencies.
Re: America, will they ever learn?
A high currency has bitten us, made us less competitive, our manufacturing has fallen further, and we have lost jobs accordingly.
We can see in Victoria over the last few months of closing factories around the western and northern suburbs.
It further reflects itself in the closing of private schools in those areas, as fees become out of reach.
The latest statistical reports released has only just taken in this data, but clearly show that the cracks in the Australian economy are now visible.
A high currency has bitten us, made us less competitive, our manufacturing has fallen further, and we have lost jobs accordingly.
We can see in Victoria over the last few months of closing factories around the western and northern suburbs.
It further reflects itself in the closing of private schools in those areas, as fees become out of reach.
The latest statistical reports released has only just taken in this data, but clearly show that the cracks in the Australian economy are now visible.
