Acceptance - we are now a middling side | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Acceptance - we are now a middling side

No need to relitigate this, but the original contention was that coaching/culture/management were significant, whereas you thought they weren't. Then as now I think they are significant, you don't ... and that's fine.


On your Australian cricket team comparison, I'd argue cricket is an unusual team sport in that most of the time only two players are involved, bowler and batsman, then sometimes a fielder/wicket keeper, the other batsman if there's a run. Communication happens mostly between balls when not much is happening. It's a totally different scenario to a continuous game like AR where you run/shepherd/move into space/wait for the tap/etc etc. Team bonds, trust and instantaneous understanding of moves/patterns/reactions is totally different from cricket.

It all depends on the context of 'significant'. Fiten put it better than I ever have earlier in the thread, my view is it has almost nothing to do with winning.

I'll leave Dustin alone, already run my mouth when I shouldn't have on here and done some damage, so I'll avoid anything further.

I actually think there's a lot of aspects of cricket that really accentuate the team aspect. You say most of the time only two players are involved but that's not the case. You can be the best bowler in the world but unless you have 10 team mates who are sharp in the field, stopping runs, taking catches, chasing, diving etc then you are not as effective. That requires hours and hours in the field, long periods of concentration, often in arduous conditions. Good players and good teams feed each other, keep up energy and encouragement, keep a spark in the game for sometime 10 or 12 hours in the field over a couple of days.
Many of those fielding also have absolutely no role to play in the game until they bat again. That demands a lot of team first attitude, to keep yourself in the game when you are out of it.

Batting is essentially an individual game in a team sport but even with that batsman work with other players to build partnerships and to stay sharp over long periods of time. They work with the tail end batsman to build partnerships. The communication is must less and mostly out of play but the importance of focus is also absolute, any mistake is usually fatal.

Interestingly over my 10 years or so in footy the game actually moved more towards cricket's approach in terms of the high performance environment stuff. The we're tough, these blokes are weak stuff pre game is essentially gone, self motivation is more in vogue and coach's addresses tend to be more technical than passionate. I think both games will end up on a similar path.
 
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all good but has nothing to do with my reply to TBR

I do agree though that we are in different times now and we need a new message and new ways of powering the collective. I stated a couple of years back that I thought Dimma's productive time at Richmond was probably over and this may still prove to be the case - or proved wrong, hopefully.

Great article from the always excellent Cameron Rose here about the responsibility for our last season and so far this season being on Dimma - I tend to agree. Losing every close game we played (and all our losses were close) tells me something ain't right. I always felt we underachieved massively last year and should have prevented Geelong from winning that flag.

https://www.theroar.com.au/2023/04/...bility-to-win-close-games-falls-on-the-coach/
Dusty will always be a Richmond Man to me, he stayed despite the lure of riches, that is perhaps the best advertisement for club culture you can have and it also signals that Richmond is a broad church which caters for all types of personalities. The fact he doesn't like cameras is a positive in my view, some kids still think an Instagram following is the mark of success.
 
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Dusty will always be a Richmond Man to me, he stayed despite the lure of riches, that is perhaps the best advertisement for club culture you can have and it also signals that Richmond is a broad church which caters for all types of personalities. The fact he doesn't like cameras is a positive in my view, some kids still think an Instagram following is the mark of success.

Agree 100%
 
Dont think the list is as bad as its made out. Reality is you need luck with injuries to have any chance of a flag.
If we had a full and fit list to choose from there is no doubt we are 4-0 or at worst 3-1. Im talking players with full pre seasons, no real niggles taking the field.
Unfortunately where we are at as a team we need all hands on board to have a proper crack.
I think the Taranto trade was the right call. With Hopper i probably would have gone with Mitchell for 2 years costing next to nothing salary and draft wise.
 
Freefall.

Everyone can see it. Something finally broke tonight and Melbourne will kill us off for good next week.
 
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Maybe the last 2 close losses against the pies and doggies flatted us and lulled us into a false sense of being close, almost there but in reality we are falling fast, very fast.

We are in rebuild, partly because of injuries and partly because our older players can’t carry us anymore.
 
Freefall.

Everyone can see it. Something finally broke tonight and Melbourne will kill us off for good next week.
Yes, quite obvious really.

From 2017-2020 we had 29 Premiership players. Only one in my opinion has improved from that time, Dan Rioli.

That basically says it all. One out of 29. Or one out of 18 still playing at RFC. You just can't stay on the top with these sort of numbers.

Improved: Rioli
Still about the same: McIntosh, Graham, Broad, Short, Lynch, Bolton, Baker, Pickett, Balta???...I've been a bit lenient with this list.
Gotten worse: Grimes, Vlastuin, Cotchin, Martin, Riewoldt, Nankervis, Prestia, Soldo.
Playing Elsewhere: Ellis, Butler
Retired: Rance, Houli, Astbury, Townsend, Lambert, Caddy, Grigg, Edwards, Castagna.

When you actually look at who has retired in the last 5 years, then in hindsight we were no chance of staying on top.

We made Hay when the sun shone...lots of it! But the sun has gone for a while, maybe a long while.
 
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Yes, quite obvious really.

From 2017-2020 we had 29 Premiership players. Only one in my opinion has improved from that time, Dan Rioli.

That basically says it all. One out of 29. Or one out of 18 still playing at RFC. You just can't stay on the top with these sort of numbers.

Improved: Rioli
Still about the same: McIntosh, Graham, Broad, Short, Lynch, Bolton, Baker, Pickett, Balta???...I've been a bit lenient with this list.
Gotten worse: Grimes, Vlastuin, Cotchin, Martin, Riewoldt, Nankervis, Prestia, Soldo.
Playing Elsewhere: Ellis, Butler
Retired: Rance, Houli, Astbury, Townsend, Lambert, Caddy, Grigg, Edwards, Castagna.

When you actually look at who has retired in the last 5 years, then in hindsight we were no chance of staying on top.

We made Hay when the sun shone...lots of it! But the sun has gone for a while, maybe a long while.
That's about as good a post as you could make, reality not many are willing to accept. I've tried to be upbeat about the Tiges but I knew last year we coaxed Edwards to 300 when we probably shouldn't have, cost us end of last year IMO.

Doing the same with Cotch, one year too many.

We should have done the hard Alex Ferguson Man Utd cull like he did every few years with big name players like Beckham, Ince, Keane, Van Nistelrooy and a few other players.
 
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Bolton is the big fish we can use to trade big time into this draft. said on the bolton thread but he is a poor player in a poor team. he needs to be fed, given space. that only happens if things are working the way they should all over the ground.

premiership era is shut.

If we finish 16th with no picks there needs to be a thorough review of footy operations and strategy.
 
You either give up or get better and we don’t give up.

I’m not convinced a player’s age is the sole determinant as to whether they can still compete or not. It’s more their physical condition and mindset.

Saw that perfectly last night with Riewoldt’s performance. It’s also why Cotchin is close to the end as his body just can’t allow him to do what he once did.

To me, too many of our experienced players are simply out of form. Is this permanent due to physical condition or mindset? That’s up to them to lift - and they need to in order to lead the way for the younger players.

If they don’t want to lift or simply can’t, then it is time to go. But they’re great players and class/ability is always permanent, so I’ll back them to bounce back.
 
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I have a bloke at my work at the moment (not sport).
Hes been there for 15 years. Great guy.
But now...basically does nothing.
Doesn't work his hours, cuts corners looks unhappy, is lazy and others around him including me have had enough of him not putting in the effort.

Went up to him a while ago and said, whats the go?

He said...im over it, I'm just done with this place now. I don't enjoy being here. But will see it out another year or two and then I'm gone.

Hes still there 12 months later and as a result place is struggling with him being there and a bit of the respect he once had is gone.

He is actually the manager and place is terrible atm. All systems are gone, employees do what they want, when they want.

Interessting.
 
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The big problem is we are playing like a bottom four team and we traded out our future first. Blair has a great record but it will go down with his Yarran mistake if he has given up a top three or four pick for Hopper. Have the list management team overvalued the list?

There will need to be a review of Meehan as well. Some injuries have been unlucky and some soft tissue ones haven't. You can't be sure if you aren't directly involved but his results have been poor. Maybe less spending on assistant coaches and get a top level fitness guy.

Matt Clarke also should be reviewed. I think three of the five 2021 picks in Gibcus, Sonsie and Juddy will make it (Juddy needs to straight line the ball more). His Dow, RCD picks were poor. Is he the best available? Frank had better picks but also clearly better overall results as well. His Rioli and Bolton picks are light years ahead of anything Vlarke has got with similar draft picks.

We also need to look at our slow starts to the season. It was fine when we a gun team but we needed to be up for the fight this year with our tough start to the season.

Overall it has been incredibly dissapointing since the practice match against Melbourne. I could accept beeing crap after our great recent history if the club made the right call not trading out our first pick this year. Kane was right. It was a very Hawthorn in the last years of Clarkson call.
 
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