911 Truth Movement

[Disco08]

Marshall didn't use a high tech gun or a 22. He only owned a glock. Those things are loud - especially in the middle of the night. Even if the wind was blowing (which no one mentions and is quite rare at night) the noise would be carried to neighbours downwind of Marshall's house. You try firing a glock inside an insulated house with trees around it and tell me you can't hear it inside neighbouring houses. I'll guarantee that once you've tried you'll realise why such an assertion is indeed ridiculous. 4 shots as well remember.

Madsen states that the houses where Marshall lived are "right on top of eachother". The official report says they're well separated. Someone is lying and there's got to be a good chance whoever that is is doing it because they have alterior motives.

The irony is delicious Disco. In other posts you've made you trumpet how people hearing "explosions" is somehow proof that wtc 7 was detonated for explosion, yet here someone hears sometihng and it proves nothing.

I don't have access to the police files to know all the details to know what information they compiled to come to the conclusion that he was guilty. And neither do you, you have some scant details from the internet. But from that you deduce that the police have been negligent?

And to describe what you've posted as "evidence that contradicts the official report" is yet another example of your delusions. What "evidence"? Neighbours saying he wasnt the type to kill? No motive? How do you know there wasn't a motive? If you've read so many crime boooks you'll know there's so much more to these cases than just the scant details released. And why do police have to release these detials? To suit you? Maybe his impending divorce was a factor? Maybe his seperation? There were domestic violence issues before. But most of all he was a truther and we all know their mental health isn't too stable!

The opinion of the coroner is that it was a murder suicide, you seem to be saying otherwise.

Anyway, enough from me. I suppose if you're so worried that an innocent man has been found to have murdered his kids then you probably should contact Calveras county pd and alert them with your "evidence".

Yeah nah. I just thought we could discuss the case here in a rational manner. Cest la vie.

Where exactly in the links you provided does the coroner say it was a murder/suicide? Why would the coroner even make such a statement?

What exactly did that person hear? How could he possibly know if it was Marshall killlng his kids and then himself rather than other people killng all of them? You may see these points as deliciously ironic but that says more about your inability to view things objectively than anything else.

The police seem negligent because they have concluded the case without toxicology or GSR reports. They also present no motive and seemingly ignore reports that none of Marshall's neighbours reported hearing gunshots. Why not wait until all the evidence has been examined before laying blame? If there's conclusive evidence that Marshall murdered his children why isn't it being presented?

The evidence Madsen presented is compelling enough to question the official reports. Neighbours apparently all believe Marshall and his children were murdered by outside parties. None of them heard gunshots. Someone reported that the crime scene was "illegally cleaned" - presumably before being investigated. You'd have to have your head well and truly up your arse to not be able to see the implications of these reports. At the very leasy they need to be investigated further and explained.

Every person is deserving of the right to innocence until they're proven guilty. Even truthers.

No probs... but I can diss VT if you want!

Just having a quick look through it, some good stuff about the experiences and health issues of the vets and the human costs of the war mostly for power elites and money. But of course it gets intertwined with anti Israel propaganda, 911, the Illuminati and so on and so forth.

Anything is possible. But a guy murdering his own family (and dog) with his own gun is unfortunately much more common in the US than being murdered by (a) a complete stranger or (b) black ops hit squads. Given the family history, and allusions to possible mental illness, this becomes even more likely. As for the local cops covering up for the Feds, don't believe it for one second based on the info I've seen.

I don't know what procedures they performed on the crime scene, and in terms of the autopsies. I just can't tell from here. Can you?

No. The police haven't released those details even though they've stated definitively that Marshall murdered his children. Why?

Marshall's entire history of violence extends to one instance of slapping his wife (from memory). Murdering your own kids is a long way from that.

What evidence is there that Marshall was mentally unstable?

What was it exactly about the JFK and LHO references that caused you to question Madsen's credibility again?

 

[AngryAnt]

You know, I'd love to follow you down this latest rabbit hole, but my better judgement tells me that that way madness lies.

I'd warn you against continuing on this course, but I think you are beyond any salvation. Enjoy your aluminium headgear.

 

[Disco08]

LOL.

 

[tigersnake]

Marshall didn't use a high tech gun or a 22. He only owned a glock. Those things are loud - especially in the middle of the night. Even if the wind was blowing (which no one mentions and is quite rare at night) the noise would be carried to neighbours downwind of Marshall's house. You try firing a glock inside an insulated house with trees around it and tell me you can't hear it inside neighbouring houses. I'll guarantee that once you've tried you'll realise why such an assertion is indeed ridiculous. 4 shots as well remember.

Madsen states that the houses where Marshall lived are "right on top of eachother". The official report says they're well separated. Someone is lying and there's got to be a good chance whoever that is is doing it because they have alterior motives.

This reply to my post shows the pointlessness of engaging in a debate with you.

FWIW, I found this, which was the gist of a chat on Glock loudness on a gun forum:

"I'm guessing it's a 9mm. If so then that's not too loud.

You want loud? I have a Smith & Wesson 500.

That's a 50 caliber revolver. HUGE ammo!

That SOB is loud !!!

Then comes the really loud one. AR-15 with a 14 inch barrel.

Holy Cow! Your head rings for 5 minutes after just one shot.

22 and shotguns are nothing.

38 and 9mm ain't bad.

357 and 44 are getting there.

500 ? fuget-a-bout-it"

I'm sure there would be more scientific data in terms of db measurements of various guns. Like I said, a 22 is quiet, a 9mm is next bracket up, it would be less quiet, but its definately not a canon. I'd imaging someone could fire off 4 quick rounds, neighbours might wake up and think they heard something, go back to sleep. That scenario seems completely plausable to me, but to you 'patently ridiculous'.

The wind blowing is rare at night?

 

[Soda]

You may see these points as deliciously ironic but that says more about your inability to view things objectively than anything else.

Now that is deliciously ironic

 

[tigertim]

http://www.calaverasenterprise.com/news/article_93e6c5e0-720b-11e2-aaa2-0019bb2963f4.html

Apparently Marshall was having trouble with his medication but hey, I'm sure there's a reason to discount this.

He also suddenly withdraw his application to be a youth mentor jst before the screening process! Suss or what? ( I actually don't think it is relevant to anything, I'm just playing the theorists game of making something out of nothing...it's good fun)

http://www.uniondemocrat.com/News/Local-News/Ex-wife-gives-insight-into-killers-mind

And his first wife gives her opinion into Marshalls personality. But hey, what would she know, she was just married to him. Lets listen to neighbours and truthers who haven't met him!

 

[Disco08]

This reply to my post shows the pointlessness of engaging in a debate with you.

FWIW, I found this, which was the gist of a chat on Glock loudness on a gun forum:

"I'm guessing it's a 9mm. If so then that's not too loud.

You want loud? I have a Smith & Wesson 500.

That's a 50 caliber revolver. HUGE ammo!

That SOB is loud !!!

Then comes the really loud one. AR-15 with a 14 inch barrel.

Holy Cow! Your head rings for 5 minutes after just one shot.

22 and shotguns are nothing.

38 and 9mm ain't bad.

357 and 44 are getting there.

500 ? fuget-a-bout-it"

I'm sure there would be more scientific data in terms of db measurements of various guns. Like I said, a 22 is quiet, a 9mm is next bracket up, it would be less quiet, but its definately not a canon. I'd imaging someone could fire off 4 quick rounds, neighbours might wake up and think they heard something, go back to sleep. That scenario seems completely plausable to me, but to you 'patently ridiculous'.

The wind blowing is rare at night?

Yes it is. From experience I'd say 10% of niights with winds strong enough to drown out loud noises would be an exaggeration. You disagree? Don't you think if there was a strong wind on that night someone would have mentioned it?

Here's a page I found after 15 seconds Googling about the decibels a 9mm glock produces:

http://www.m1911.org/loudness.htm

As I said I've heard them fired a few times. You try listening to one and tell me what you think after that.

Now that is deliciously ironic

Choose an example and lets lets discuss it.

 

[tigertim]

http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/5/4/3300455/PhilipMarshallhitmadetoappearassuicide.pdf

Checked out Wayne madsens report. Just looking at the pics of the Marshall house, he had a pine forest behind him! No wonder only one neighbour heard something!

 

[tigersnake]

Yes it is. From experience I'd say 10% of niights with winds strong enough to drown out loud noises would be an exaggeration. You disagree? Don't you think if there was a strong wind on that night someone would have mentioned it?

Here's a page I found after 15 seconds Googling about the decibels a 9mm glock produces:

http://www.m1911.org/loudness.htm

As I said I've heard them fired a few times. You try listening to one and tell me what you think after that.

Where have you heard them fired? In a shooting range? Any gun is loud indoors. That scale amazes me. For example they have a chainsaw at a hundred odd, and a 22 rifle at 150 odd, also as the scale is logrithmic, according to that, the chainsaw is much much, well to the power of 50, quieter than a 22. On the farm we had a Stihl Magnum Pro Chainsaw, a top of the line beast, and also a Winchester .22 rifle, and a shotgun. The chainsaw you could hear a mile off, and as I said, the .22, once someone was shooting it over a small rise with a few trees, a breeze, 50 metres away, I didn't hear it. Also, when you saw someone fire it from a distance away, 20-30 metres, it barely made a pop, a little crack.

Another example, when I was a young apprentice in Melbourne, I lived with a heavy metal band in a big old federation house in Canturbury. They would practise loud, very loud, fully amped, drumkit, and late in an inner room, prop some mattresses up on the walls, there were a lot of overgrown trees around the house, it was double brick, you could hear just a very faint rumble outside, and the neighbours wouldn't have heard a thing from inside their double-brick houses. The neighbours never complained once, and in a very conservative area.

BTW, I'm not trying to convince you really, that is pointless, according to you there are 9/11 conspiracies and cover ups everywhere and nothing will alter your opinions on that. I'm just interested and making some obs on this noise stuff. Again, it seem perfectly plausable to me sleeping neighbours may not hear gunshots, as dramatic as that sounds, for various reasons.

 

[tigertim]

http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/5/4/3300455/PhilipMarshallhitmadetoappearassuicide.pdf


http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1320&dat=20030917&id=VAxgAAAAIBAJ&sjid=YewDAAAAIBAJ&pg=7019,3429282

http://articles.ky3.com/2010-10-04/shot-multiple-times_24121680

Hers some articles easily found where neighbours didnt hear gun shots. You'd have to have your head up your arse to think that neighbours not hearing the shots means there's a conspiracy, either that or just totally incapable of being objective. I wonder if our resolute truthers follow up all murders and suicides looking for conspiracies? Or just the ones involving fellow truthers.

 

[tigersnake]

Yeah, I deliberately picked out that one detail, because I knew a bit about it, had some experience, it was experiment if I could maybe sew a tiny seed of doubt in Disco's head on one small element, an element that I believe there is plenty of logical reasons why a neighbour may not have heard the shots, nope, nothing doing. Its 'patently ridiculous' that a neighbour would not have heard the shots, ergo Donald and Larry flew those remote controlled planes into the WTC.

 

[Disco08]

Not getting tired of playing the intellectual superior yet?

http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/5/4/3300455/PhilipMarshallhitmadetoappearassuicide.pdf


http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1320&dat=20030917&id=VAxgAAAAIBAJ&sjid=YewDAAAAIBAJ&pg=7019,3429282

http://articles.ky3.com/2010-10-04/shot-multiple-times_24121680

Hers some articles easily found where neighbours didnt hear gun shots. You'd have to have your head up your arse to think that neighbours not hearing the shots means there's a conspiracy, either that or just totally incapable of being objective. I wonder if our resolute truthers follow up all murders and suicides looking for conspiracies? Or just the ones involving fellow truthers.

LOL. What times were those murders? What type of gun was used? Could a silencer have been used?

Where have you heard them fired? In a shooting range? Any gun is loud indoors. That scale amazes me. For example they have a chainsaw at a hundred odd, and a 22 rifle at 150 odd, also as the scale is logrithmic, according to that, the chainsaw is much much, well to the power of 50, quieter than a 22. On the farm we had a Stihl Magnum Pro Chainsaw, a top of the line beast, and also a Winchester .22 rifle, and a shotgun. The chainsaw you could hear a mile off, and as I said, the .22, once someone was shooting it over a small rise with a few trees, a breeze, 50 metres away, I didn't hear it. Also, when you saw someone fire it from a distance away, 20-30 metres, it barely made a pop, a little crack.

Another example, when I was a young apprentice in Melbourne, I lived with a heavy metal band in a big old federation house in Canturbury. They would practise loud, very loud, fully amped, drumkit, and late in an inner room, prop some mattresses up on the walls, there were a lot of overgrown trees around the house, it was double brick, you could hear just a very faint rumble outside, and the neighbours wouldn't have heard a thing from inside their double-brick houses. The neighbours never complained once, and in a very conservative area.

BTW, I'm not trying to convince you really, that is pointless, according to you there are 9/11 conspiracies and cover ups everywhere and nothing will alter your opinions on that. I'm just interested and making some obs on this noise stuff. Again, it seem perfectly plausable to me sleeping neighbours may not hear gunshots, as dramatic as that sounds, for various reasons.

The loudest concert in history was recorded at 136db. Do you imagine you could hear that on a quiet night through an open door in a house no more than 20 metres away?

I've heard them fired at shooting ranges and in the bush. I've also heard gunfire from neighbouring houses and farms. I've got a mate who's gun crazy and loves the 9mm.

http://www.calaverasenterprise.com/news/article_93e6c5e0-720b-11e2-aaa2-0019bb2963f4.html

Apparently Marshall was having trouble with his medication but hey, I'm sure there's a reason to discount this.

He also suddenly withdraw his application to be a youth mentor jst before the screening process! Suss or what? ( I actually don't think it is relevant to anything, I'm just playing the theorists game of making something out of nothing...it's good fun)

http://www.uniondemocrat.com/News/Local-News/Ex-wife-gives-insight-into-Iillers-mind

And his first wife gives her opinion into Marshalls personality. But hey, what would she know, she was just married to him. Lets listen to neighbours and truthers who haven't met him!

Marshall's wife was discredited as a witness previously according to the first article. She seems liIe one of the last people you'd trust when trying to gain an insight into Marshall's state of mind. What about the friend in the first article who said: "“He was not a happy guy a lot of the time..... He had longstanding troubles with his wife. But he was a dedicated father, great baseball coach and his temperament doesn’t fit this scenario at all.”?

That article also speculates on BPD as a possible explanation but is there any evidence that Marshall was diagnosed with it?

http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/5/4/3300455/PhilipMarshallhitmadetoappearassuicide.pdf

Checked out Wayne madsens report. Just looking at the pics of the Marshall house, he had a pine forest behind him! No wonder only one neighbour heard something!

Did you see the picture of Marshall's house taIen from a neighbours house? Pretty close it seems and the door was left open to boot. What about the neighbour's testimony that she could hear Marshall whistling from her house?

Did any of that report give you even the slightest cause to question the official report?

 

[Baloo]

What about the friend in the first article who said: "“He was not a happy guy a lot of the time..... He had longstanding troubles with his wife. But he was a dedicated father, great baseball coach and his temperament doesn’t fit this scenario at all.”?

What training does the friend have in mental health to be able to accurately portray Marshall's state of mind and cpaacity to commit murder suicide ? Was he privy to all of marshall's inner demons, or any emotional and psycological triggers that occured before he killed himself and his children ?

 

[tigersnake]

Not getting tired of playing the intellectual superior yet?

There has been no logical debate that I've seen.

 

[Disco08]

Why doesn't that surprise me?

What training does the friend have in mental health to be able to accurately portray Marshall's state of mind and cpaacity to commit murder suicide ? Was he privy to all of marshall's inner demons, or any emotional and psycological triggers that occured before he killed himself and his children ?

You tell me. He's just another one to say Marshall didn't seem anything but a devoted father with a mild temperament.

 

[Baloo]

Why doesn't that surprise me?

You tell me. He's just another one to say Marshall didn't seem anything but a devoted father with a mild temperament.

You're the one quoting the friend as proof/fact/implication/suggestion that the official report should be viewed suspiciously. Surely you've done the research into to know whether these snippets of information you post if you are using them to discredit an official report.

Or are you just tossing crap out and expecting others to do the legwork for you ?

 

[Disco08]

Pffft. You want me to ring him and question his credentials? LMFAO.

 

[tigersnake]

You're the one quoting the friend as proof/fact/implication/suggestion that the official report should be viewed suspiciously. Surely you've done the research into to know whether these snippets of information you post if you are using them to discredit an official report.

Or are you just tossing crap out and expecting others to do the legwork for you ?

But it Makes no difference if you do the legwork or not. I could write a refereed journal article on 'Variables that determine whether gunshots are heard by sleeping neighbours during violent crimes'. Nothin. Patently ridiculous.

 

[Disco08]

Yeah. I'm just a know-nothing talking through his arse after all.

 

[TigerForce]

Sounds like the ALP in here....