You need a core of talented players that you get through the draft! Im not seeing a whole lot of stars under 25 on the list can you
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2024 Draft Thread
- Thread starter Mr T.
- Start date
Correct It takes a Chimp a GOAT, a Tross and a Roo, a Marlin and a Lambo
Agreed.
We drafted Taranto and Hopper to create a base because we were very lean on mid aged talent to strengthen our core.
Taranto was a good choice. Hopper was not
IMO we targeted both with the aim to be lucky and get one. Then it was too late to say no.
In terms of next gen we do have a solid core below 25, but obvs not top end talent. The next 2 drafts will address that and we can rebound quickly.
I can’t believe we might end up with 20 top ten picks with those players leaving.
Were they damaging and forward penetrating disposals or just Jaeger bombs?
We have been near the bottom of these stats for a fair while. If you look at where the GF's are on these lists it is trending towards minimising clangers and turnovers.
Turnovers -
2017 - we were 3rd for, Crows were first.
2018 - we were 5th, Pies were 3rd (Eagles were 17th)
2019 - we were 8th, GWS 14th
2020 - we were 5th, Cats were 18th
2021 - we were 7th, Dees were 6th and Bulldogs 11th
2022 - we were 7th, Cats were 18th and Swans 15th
2023 - we were 2nd, Pies 15th & Lions 16th
2024 - currently 2nd
Clangers -
2017 - we were 1st, Crows 4th
2018 - we were 2nd, Pies 6th & Eagles 17th
2019 - we were 2nd, GWS 4th
2020 - we were 1st, Cats 11th
2021- we were 1st, Dees 3rd & Dogs 16th
2022 - we were 1st, Cats 9th & Swans 10th
2023 - we were 1st, Pies 6th & Lions 15th
2024 - Currently 1st!!
We have not changed much. Reckon the trend is to be successful you need to be towards the bottom end of these 2 lists.
Is there any relationship between the stand rule coming in?
Yeh, have a couple of mates up that way and apparently Stevie J saves his best moves for off the ground.
Yeh, crazy statement, midfield not a strength?
How many finals we lose the possession/contested possession/centre clearances etc stats with these guys? Nank lost his one on one ruck battle once, the 2018 prelim to Grundy.
I'd love to have an average midfield like that now.
Madness to argue otherwise. And a good reason not to bother checking the other midfields of the time. Respect a lot of bengals footy posting but that's a bengal bungle.
How complimentary were these guys to each other, each bringing some unique skillsets.
Oh snap, then the needle hasn't moved at all and nothing has changed on the FOS front.
And the Cothcin draft comparisons do not hold true. While both had injury issues, Cotch showed huge glimpses of talent at the Champs and dominated the then TAC. Cmon Boy, show us some TAC form.
As good a place as any to plonk this article:
WORTH A PUNT, TIGES?
Josh Barnes - The Barnestormer
How hard can you go when you push the button to blow it up?
It is a question that has haunted list managers for decades as they weigh up how deep to cut a fading list.
Richmond is walking towards that precipice right now.
If the tea leaves are to be believed, Richmond could see all these flag winners go in just a few months.
Jack Graham could leave as a free agent, Liam Baker may follow him west, Dustin Martin might be limping towards the end of his legendary stroll down Punt Rd, Daniel Rioli could be tempted by the Gold Coast sun, and Shai Bolton may push to be another Tiger playing in Perth.
If they did clean out their lockers, those five would walk out of Richmond carrying 12 premiership medals.
In this modern era, fans are less tied to their premiership servants and always looking at the shiny potential of draft picks.
Graham’s value as a 26-year-old would likely be a second-round pick as compensation.
Martin’s compensation likely wouldn’t reach that height.
In trades, Baker is probably worth a mid-first, Rioli could be two firsts and Bolton’s long and weighty contract weighs even more than that on the scales.
Is 12 premiership medals worth six picks inside the top 30?
It would be a very nice starting point to the proper rebuild for new recruiting boss Chris Toce, given the only players on Richmond’s list the Tigers drafted themselves before pick No.15 are Nick Vlastuin and Josh Gibcus.
The unique position Richmond finds itself in here is that it holds four players of genuine value, plus an all-time great in Martin.
Teams that have cut deep in the past have often done it by axing veterans or moving on youngsters who haven’t quite cut it yet.
North Melbourne did both, cutting the vets in 2016 and culling the list cloggers by axing 11 players in one day in 2020.
Neither move secured a quick bounce but also neither brought any value back to the club, unlike the bevy of potential draft options the Tigers could secure.
By getting this many swings, the Tigers would put themselves in a similar position to the Hawks of the early 2000s, when they drafted Jarryd Roughead, Lance Franklin and Jordan Lewis together in the first half-hour of the 2004 draft and built a dynasty.
Within three seasons, those Hawks were winning finals and within four they had a flag.
What is also unique about Richmond’s situation is that those players potentially on the way out would mostly be part of that potential flag side in 2030.
Baker would be the oldest of the crew, aged 32 then.
Losing so much prime talent means the Tigers will have surely given up on trying to remain in the finals hunt, a plan outgoing CEO Brendon Gale has stuck to in recent years.
Losing that much proven talent at the peak of their powers has never worked out.
While the Tigers will still have plenty of experienced talent on their list, losing players who have been there before can only hurt whoever is drafted into the club.
Richmond assistant Jack Ziebell had to be one of the few experienced heads at North Melbourne in his final playing years and recognises how important it is to have veterans around to fast-track young players.
“It is critical, they are like on-field coaches. I look at guys like Dion Prestia, Jacob Hopper and Tim Taranto, who have all missed chunks of footy this year,” he said.
“One, we would love them out there because they are guns. But two, their ability to help instruct and teach kids on the field in real life and teach them is second to none.
“I know the young guys absolutely eat it up and the young guys get a thrill out of it as well.”
History isn’t kind to clubs that tear it all down following the mantra of moving on players who aren’t in the next premiership side.
Melbourne and Carlton both went through rebuilds over and over for virtually 15 years before both finally hit an upswing, with the Demons eventually claiming the silverware in 2021.
The only reliable constant you can find in histories of blowing up a playing list in footy is you are destined for a long time losing.
Perhaps Richmond fans are ready for that and having watched them savour three flags, opposition fans may agree the Tigers deserve a slow rebuild.
Hawthorn has shown you can bounce back quicker than expected.
But if the Tigers do move on most of their five players, it surely consigns the club to a long time in the cellar.
Here’s five examples of blow-it-up moments from clubs that either worked, or didn’t, and how they apply to the Tigers.
THE CROAD SWINDLE
The gold standard of moving a prime player for draft capital was Hawthorn’s shock call to trade Trent Croad to Fremantle in 2001.The trade netted the No.1 pick, used on three-time premiership captain Luke Hodge, pick 20 (Daniel Elstone) and the 36th pick, used on another premiership captain Sam Mitchell.
Of course, Croad returned to the Hawks only a couple of seasons later and played in the 2008 premiership.
The Hawks went into this 2001 trade knowing their fans might not like it – some in brown and gold started a ‘Keep Croad’ club – but they wanted to snag a 15-year star and knew Croad was the collateral for that.
The lesson for the Tigers here is pretty obvious: if you can trade a player in his early prime for the first pick in possibly the best draft of all time, go for it.
It doesn’t look like any of their post-season moves are that cut and dry and while draft watchers rate the year’s crop as deep, it isn’t in the stratosphere of 2001.
And the other key thing is by the time Croad came back, the Hawks still had a deep veteran core of the likes of Shane Crawford, Richie Vandenberg, Nick Holland and Peter Everitt in place to help draftees learn the caper.
GO HOME FIVE
You can never forget that the Lions, basking in stars keen to play in Queensland, once seemingly couldn’t keep anyone at the club.None of these were Brisbane’s decision to trade out but dubbed the ‘go-home five’, Sam Docherty, Elliot Yeo, Jared Polec, Billy Longer and Patrick Karnezis all rushed out of the club in 2013.
The Lions basically got back Darcy Gardiner, Dan McStay, Lewis Taylor, Tom Cutler, Nick Robertson, Jackson Paine and Trent West in the subsequent trades and drafting.
Gardiner has been a very serviceable defender and McStay provided value before going to Collingwood, but there was little bang for buck here for the Lions.
With a handful of young core players ripped out, the Lions finished in the bottom three in each of the next five seasons and it took draft after draft to build what is now a perennial contender.
The question is yours Richmond fans: is that half-decade of pain worth it?
POWER’S QUICK DIP
In a blueprint for how to drop and bounce quickly, Port Adelaide finished 2018 in 10th and that off-season traded out Jared Polec, Jasper Pittard, Jack Hombsch and Chad Wingard.The sale brought in Ryan Burton and draft capital that allowed the Power to scoop up Zak Butters, Connor Rozee and Xavier Duursma all in the top 18.
Instantly, Port Adelaide picked up two midfielders that will be locked into the team until the 2030s and soon became premiership contenders again.
Wingard is the only player of the quality of the Richmond players potentially for sale – although Polec’s value was higher than you remember at the time.
Is a bounce available that quickly if the Tigers get their remaining veterans right?
It appears right now there are too many holes in the Richmond list, but things obviously look different if Tom Lynch, Gibcus and Dion Prestia are fit for a full year.
EAGLES HOLD FIRE
It was pretty plain to see by the end of 2022 that West Coast’s run as a contender was well over.But the Eagles made one solitary trade in 2022 – getting involved in the mega Jason Horne-Francis deal by sending out wantaway Willie Rioli.
Last off-season, the Eagles traded in Tyler Brockman and made a minor pick swap with Richmond.
This is the stand-pat example.
There was interest in Tom Barras and Liam Ryan last off-season but the Eagles held firm and publicly hosed down speculation they could look to move Jack Darling.
Now Darling has no value, and veterans such as Andrew Gaff and Dom Sheed are worth less to opposition
clubs.
Their coaching job is so poisonous no highly rated assistant coach seems interested and Harley Reid and Oscar Allen are the only serious building blocks of a premiership side come
2030.
The Tigers may be forced to make more moves this off-season thanks to players pushing their way out, but clearly standing still here for West Coast didn’t work.
SCOTT’S ROO CULL
It was the mother of all axe swings.Brent Harvey, Drew Petrie, Michael Firrito and Nick Dal Santo were all not offered contracts at the end of 2016.
Daniel Wells left in free agency and veteran Farren Ray was also cut.
On the surface, these all appeared reasonable moves for a club that had fallen out of a window that had included two preliminary finals and held the oldest list in the league.
In 2017, the Roos were suddenly the second youngest list and starting with that year, they have finished 15th, ninth, 12th, 17th, 18th, 18th, 17th, with another bottom-two finish looking likely.
The lesson from this example is to try and fade out veterans and keep more experience around.
Because most of those names were retiring, the Roos got nothing but cap space and list spots for their departure, whereas the Tigers conundrum is based on whether they cash in now.
Good article.
Massive decisions coming up by Blair and co. If Baker, Bolton, Rioli and Graham were to go we could potentially get 4-5 first rounders and 1-2 second rounders. Add our own first rounder and potentially a trade with GC/Carl/Bris for another, we could end up with 6-7 first rounders and a couple of second rounders. That's massive and by the sounds of it this draft is kinda deep. I've been against trading out all these players but it is enticing.
