And that’s why I would’ve grabbed Buller as well last night, spread the risk.
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2023 mid-season rookie draft
- Thread starter tigerman
- Start date
Damn straight.
Thats what its like here in the south.
No one gets out of Franga with their hubcabs, dead or alive.
#meanstreets
#F-town
What I said Leon was that watching our games in recent times we were screaming out for a true crumbling forward. Yes we bomb it long, and yes we have our opposition take a lot of intercept and uncontested marks but a lot of times the ball hits the ground and we have had nothing, it has been far too easy to take the ball out of our defensive 50.
Whether we need David Coulthard I don’t know but we sure as hell need someone.
I’m not sure we lost small forwards to hubris. You can question what we got for them and that’s fair enough but butler lost his place to Bolton in 2019 (and I am sure that was the correct decision) and wanted to get a game elsewhere. Higgins cracked the sads whilst he was still contracted in 2020 because he was in and out of the team and on form at the time that was also a correct decision. Stengle was ok with us but wasn’t a stand out at vfl level and it was hardly a surprise when he left to get a game elsewhere as he was well down the pecking order.
I would say it's been pretty regular over the years, Jackson snaffled one in 2015, that was one of his best rookie picks in my opinion. If you add ruck defenders then McGovern gets a shout & Levi Casboult another rookie pick. Most of these players are core players but most have had good careers and been role players for their respective sides.
I would take Buller over Trezise if that's the question, I think his flexibility increases his chances of success, I think he'll do well at Sydney given it's a smaller ground and he won't be exposed for a lack of pace. I'm also with Scoop as a stickler for kicking, I know Jackson was also this way inclined. Clarke would appear less concerned about kicking skills. It was only later in the game when Jackson relaxed his parameters ever so slightly, taking a few risks with Callum Moore, Dan Butler, Jason Castagna & Kamdyn McIntosh. Prior to that very few players passed go without demonstrating reliable foot skills.
But the game and the rules have moved on, we have led some of that evolution. Love or hate it, you have to move ahead with it or fall back. Like other other teams have with their game-plan, drafting certain types of players and coaching. See McRae.
What do we appear to be doing currently to you? By basic objective data too? Like Ws/Ls, ladder position. Teams that can kick, mark. attack fast and apply pressure are beating us, for over 2 years now. A game-plan that relies totally on kicking it deep to 2 KPFs.
One is out again for most of the season with a LTI. The other is old and worn out. No way can he do it on his own any more.
So you think we might have put a contingency plan in place for this year? Or next? Nix.
I'm confused on your point. You clearly want a tall forward but then you use MacRae and Collingwood as an example who don't even play a tall forward. Mihocek is 192cm.
You want kicking skills, it looks to me like Coulthard has that.
Your points are a bit all over the place. You like the Pies blueprint (so why the tall forward) and you want kicking skills but you wanted Trezise?
Lets hope he stays on our vfl list and we give him the opportunity to grow and play mid
Why are some posters so insistent on coherence and logic?
We are mad goddammit and its the club's fault they havent kept winning premiership cups.
Is it because they insisted on sending players to play in the backline or not picking talls ?
Or because the club doesnt understand how to cure a hamstring?
I dont know cos i only watch highlights but if socalled professionals who spend all day getting paid by the RFC are failing then that prpves my opinion.
And Baker should cut his hair. It was all permed last weekend and he played poorly. Clipper time!
We are mad goddammit and its the club's fault they havent kept winning premiership cups.
Is it because they insisted on sending players to play in the backline or not picking talls ?
Or because the club doesnt understand how to cure a hamstring?
I dont know cos i only watch highlights but if socalled professionals who spend all day getting paid by the RFC are failing then that prpves my opinion.
And Baker should cut his hair. It was all permed last weekend and he played poorly. Clipper time!
So am I beyond Zips level for you this soon? I'll try to sort out your confusion although you are spoiling a show I was trying to watch.
Really simple.
They knew they lacked another decent KPF so went and grabbed McStay (195cm). Not a star IMO at all, but a competitor with an all-round game. Tall target, can take a grab, mobile, ok at ground level, can even be chop-out ruck. Similar to Mihocek, who is also a competitor, a bull. Both in their prime really but they lost McStay to a LTI. But, fortunately for them:
They also got Cox back from injury and into form - at 211cm can take a grab. With all the increased opportunities from their elite kickers and speedy ball movement, he's in the best form of his career and hard to stop in the 1 on 1 contests he's getting as a result. Also rucks of course.
They also took Kreuger (196cm) from the Moggs who is another KPF, along with Frampton (201cm defender), also have Begg (197cm R/F) , Wilson (194cm mid/fwd), Will Kelly and Ed Allen (both 194cm) waiting in the wings on their list too.
Also took A. Johnston (193cm F) from the 2021 Mid-Season Rookie Draft who has played 18 games for 26 goals and a contender in '23 for MotY. Is that the same year we took Bauer?
The recruitment of Frampton and Kreuger was particularly handy when Cameron (204cm so 5cm bigger than Nank and can still hold a mark) went down with injury.
So do you think they have invested enough in tall forwards? And back ups? And players they're developing for the future?
As for kicking and MC, nothing is proven at AFL level whatsoever. Buller can kick too, goals from outside 50 and snaps. But your interpretation of what my view is upon selecting MC seems far too simplistic still. It will take a lot more than 2 MSD picks to turn around our kicking deficiencies anyway.
Actually, glad you asked because this analysis you prompted was an eye-opener for me too; had little idea of just how much depth in talls they have.
But I hope that's linear enough for you and not too much lateral thinking, or whatever is confusing you .
Edit: just came back to add this, FYI. I'm really not sure who the 1st RFC player would be or where placed:
Maximum impact: AFL's most damaging inside 50 kicks revealed
Who's the most feared player with ball in hand heading into attack? Sarah Black looks at the numbers
www.afl.com.au
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Small forward or big fella ?
Looking at the 2017/18 rookie draft is a brilliant example.
We picked Liam Baker (can clip his own hair, currently too arrogant to do so).
We coulda picked Mihocek (undersized key forward).
They're the 2 standout picks.
Talls?
We could have picked Joel Amartey party, instead the swans did so. Its taken 6 season for him to consistently be in their 22.
We coulda picked Tony Olango (wce) or Lewis Pierce (stk) or even David Mirra's beard (hawks)
We've done very well
Looking at the 2017/18 rookie draft is a brilliant example.
We picked Liam Baker (can clip his own hair, currently too arrogant to do so).
We coulda picked Mihocek (undersized key forward).
They're the 2 standout picks.
Talls?
We could have picked Joel Amartey party, instead the swans did so. Its taken 6 season for him to consistently be in their 22.
We coulda picked Tony Olango (wce) or Lewis Pierce (stk) or even David Mirra's beard (hawks)
We've done very well
That's rolled gold. The Dea train was strong. Lot of learned esteemed watchers had him pegged as a star. Was an AFL list 9 years for 70 games. Absolutely got everything out of himself.
What odds the Brown dog plays more AFL than Dea? How I'd love Jacob Van Riewoldtreplacment right now. Gibcus, JVR, Balta, Tylar Young quiet the quartet of young talls to pin your side around. Gibcus and JVR in the same draft, Clarke would've built a spine in one draft. For himself and the side.
So am I beyond Zips level for you this soon? I'll try to sort out your confusion although you are spoiling a show I was trying to watch.
Really simple.
They knew they lacked another decent KPF so went and grabbed McStay (195cm). Not a star IMO at all, but a competitor with an all-round game. Tall target, can take a grab, mobile, ok at ground level, can even be chop-out ruck. Similar to Mihocek, who is also a competitor, a bull. Both in their prime really but they lost McStay to a LTI. But, fortunately for them:
They also got Cox back from injury and into form - at 211cm can take a grab. With all the increased opportunities from their elite kickers and speedy ball movement, he's in the best form of his career and hard to stop in the 1 on 1 contests he's getting as a result. Also rucks of course.
They also took Kreuger (196cm) from the Moggs who is another KPF, along with Frampton (201cm defender), also have Begg (197cm R/F) , Wilson (194cm mid/fwd), Will Kelly and Ed Allen (both 194cm) waiting in the wings on their list too.
Also took A. Johnston (193cm F) from the 2021 Mid-Season Rookie Draft who has played 18 games for 26 goals and a contender in '23 for MotY. Is that the same year we took Bauer?
The recruitment of Frampton and Kreuger was particularly handy when Cameron (204cm so 5cm bigger than Nank and can still hold a mark) went down with injury.
So do you think they have invested enough in tall forwards? And back ups? And players they're developing for the future?
As for kicking and MC, nothing is proven at AFL level whatsoever. Buller can kick too, goals from outside 50 and snaps. But your interpretation of what my view is upon selecting MC seems far too simplistic still. It will take a lot more than 2 MSD picks to turn around our kicking deficiencies anyway.
Actually, glad you asked because this analysis you prompted was an eye-opener for me too; had little idea of just how much depth in talls they have.
But I hope that's linear enough for you and not too much lateral thinking, or whatever is confusing you .
Edit: just came back to add this, FYI. I'm really not sure who the 1st RFC player would bem or where placed:
Maximum impact: AFL's most damaging inside 50 kicks revealed
Who's the most feared player with ball in hand heading into attack? Sarah Black looks at the numbers
Wow that tongue in cheek comment about Zips seemed to have you all riled up. I a, honoured, you seem to save these rants up for the best on here!! A genuine Leon rant.
As I said everyone knows we have a big deficiency in the number of talls, but you draft for talent as much as needs.
Lets breakdown those you have stated.
McStay - Decent pickup for them but no world beater - Who's to say we won't have someone lined up for the end of the season
Mihocek - Excellent pickup by the Pies and has been for a number of years, btw for those here that only want players playing in their drafted positions, was drafted as a defender out of Port Melbourne - just saying
Cox - Been on their list for a number of years now
These 3 have all been on lists for multiple years, how does drafting someone now (who may be inferior in quality to others we have chosen) solve any issue we have?
Now onto the others that you have stated.
Kreuger - 2 years at the Pies for 7 games
Frampton - Is an ok pickup for defensive depth (btw we are ok for defensive depth)
Begg - 2 years at the Pies for 3 games
Wilson - 3 years at the Pies for 8 games
Allen - More of a wingman but hasn't debuted yet
Johnston - Good pickup but more a 3rd tall (similar to Bauer, different draft as it was 2021 when we picked up Parker with Pick 10, Pies got Johnston with Pick 3)
They do have more options than we do for tall forwards but none of them are really impacting aside from those which have been on the list (or another AFL list) for a long while, so how would drafting a key tall at the rookie draft affect us this year? My point was, you or I do not know what is in the clubs plans. What if we go out and recruit Himmelberg, and then add another tall through the draft, or use Gibcus forward etc What then comes of the MSD pick, becomes depth / list clogger etc? If they have other plans (and I have no idea whether they do), why would they go and pick someone that is unlikely to see AFL footy?
I get that you love a rant, and we are all frustrated that we have little key forward depth (its not just you), but I prefer to trust the club knows what they are doing. Blair has done very well at bringing players in, Matt Clarke hasn't had a lot of high draft picks in that time, jury still out on some of his later picks, and both ours and his future probably rests on that 2021 group at this stage, but when we don't know the bigger picture, I find its better to sit back and see what plays out.
The Pies have 17 players on their list 192 or over, we have 16.
Edit: just came back to add this, FYI. I'm really not sure who the 1st RFC player would bem or where placed:
Maximum impact: AFL's most damaging inside 50 kicks revealed
Who's the most feared player with ball in hand heading into attack? Sarah Black looks at the numbers
Need to see the list of negative players (below average). I'm imagining we have a few in there unfortunately.
gee Leon - chill man.
All I am saying was - from the outside, without knowing what the club is trying to build, it is really hard to comment. Like 2016, I am really confused with the recruiting strategy, but I accept I don’t have all the info. I would love to have the King brothers running around in tiger colours, but the mid season draft is unlikely to solve that piece of the puzzle.
Just cause Sydney picked up a player after our pick, doesn’t mean that our pick was wrong - time will tell as with most things in life, just ask BRS.
