When will Bernie go !!

[Tigertough1974]

Thanks, teacher, but you think you know all you need to know from what any club publishes? Really? Even though every club reports in different ways? You, in your expertise though, had no trouble reconciling the $1m already blown in the Yarran write-off, of course? Nor the need to load up to get Dusty re-contracted? Not to mention all the other complex financial business involved in running a multi-million $ business? No, you're all over it? I trust you ...
:hihi

BTW, the'should' part was my rhetorical comment. Is that OK by you?

Dude you need to chill, you have no problem preaching to other but when corrected you get verbal.

Te reality is based on published financials we have a good balance sheet, its out there for all to see. The noise ive heard is Yarran walked away with about 100k, so its not even half (including last years salary) of the million you mentioned.

I have not seen any club post budgets at all let alone in any detail, let alone qtrly forecasts with capex etc so we can only go off historical data and at 2016 YE the balance sheet most certainly could afford the mentioned payout which was the discussion..

 

[leon]

Dude you need to chill, you have no problem preaching to other but when corrected you get verbal.

Te reality is based on published financials we have a good balance sheet, its out there for all to see. The noise ive heard is Yarran walked away with about 100k, so its not even half (including last years salary) of the million you mentioned.

I have not seen any club post budgets at all let alone in any detail, let alone qtrly forecasts with capex etc so we can only go off historical data and at 2016 YE the balance sheet most certainly could afford the mentioned payout which was the discussion..

How about you "chill", "dude 2"! Sick of posters responding with this. So what I just said to you is just as valid and relevant ... or completely vacuous! I don't need you to patronise me with such crap because I express an opinion here, but maybe you're smoking stuff or been watching too many old western movies where they call each other dude?

I never preached to him; simply expressed a contrary opinion and expressed my real doubts that any punter from the outside can make such sweeping statements based on a highly limited and superficial knowledge of a significant businesses full financial situation. I questioned, cast doubt and disagreed with his naive certainty and still do. Despite your counter-claims ... dude.

Then you do provide some valid points. Happy to revise Yazz's payout down to, hopefully 1/2M, but we do not KNOW that for certain. But you did not address the matter of keeping plenty in kitty for DM, plus Balme and new coaches have come in. Very likely to be on higher $ than previous 'budget' coaching crew. Other points of yours actually support my case - " I have not seen any club post budgets at all let alone in any detail, let alone qtrly forecasts with capex etc so we can only go off historical data."

So who still believes everything they read in the paper today .. or online? Seriously?

To restate my view. The club would have wasted precious and considerable, hard-earned funds coming off a poor year on-field and financially. I think many members like myself, who contribute much-needed and crucial revenue to the club, far prefer the current prudent course adopted i.e. to see if DH can turn it around in '17 season, re-contract vital players and personnel, plus reduce the damage of any possible payout to the head coach if he fails to deliver by late in the season. Such damage will then be definitely mitigated, possibly by even a resignation.

[BTW, opposed 2 year extension of DH].

 

[Baron Samedi]

To restate my view. The club would have wasted precious and considerable, hard-earned funds coming off a poor year on-field and financially. I think many members like myself, who contribute much-needed and crucial revenue to the club, far prefer the current prudent course adopted i.e. to see if DH can turn it around in '17 season, re-contract vital players and personnel, plus reduce the damage of any possible payout to the head coach if he fails to deliver by late in the season. Such damage will then be definitely mitigated, possibly by even a resignation.

let's all skip happily to mid-table purgatory everyone, Leon-style! yay!

 

[leon]

... yeah and we were humiliated by Port Adelaide after burning out after such a desperate run.

2014 is a classic body of evidence supporting the notion that Hardwick is the root of our on-field problems.

You only have to look at the win-loss - from 3-10 to 12-10 after much public hand-wringing about our tactics. The wins came on the back of chaotic ball movement that was not trained for in any way. The losses were down to slow ball movement which was a Hardwick directive.

To use the 9-win streak as evidence of coaching competency is completely misguided.

Mr. Original strikes again! This is revelatory. We are so lucky to have you around to "explain and inform" us of this. I literally had no idea! Never heard it before.

And no doubt you have absolute knowledge that the head coach had nothing actually to do with this streak; he was merely incidental to it all happening? Back in 2013, he never had the team play any fast, attacking football either? Wait on .. oh that must have been because, again, someone else was directing it? Bloody hell, Dimma hasn't earned an honest $ forever!! That Gale, the board and Peggy are just the dumbest ...

I am critical of his tactical style too, but not without evaluation of what player resources he has had at his disposal. It seems to me that the drafting/recruitment over the last 3 years has been an attempt to redress the list deficiencies and errors made, under the stress and pressures of the expansion teams' largesse. By the targeting of mostly fast running and more skilful players.

But to reverse your final point, please provide your analysis of Hardwick's performance relative to all the other coaches this club has employed since our last flag. Also, with your profound insight and infallible knowledge, please indulge us with the identity of the unknown coaching messiah lurking in the wilderness to replace DH and lead us unerringly and immediately to the promised land?

 

[Baron Samedi]

Mr. Original strikes again! This is revelatory. We are so lucky to have you around to "explain and inform" us of this. I literally had no idea! Never heard it before.

And no doubt you have absolute knowledge that the head coach had nothing actually to do with this streak; he was merely incidental to it all happening? Back in 2013, he never had the team play any fast, attacking football either? Wait on .. oh that must have been because, again, someone else was directing it? Bloody hell, Dimma hasn't earned an honest $ forever!! That Gale, the board and Peggy are just the dumbest ...

I am critical of his tactical style too, but not without evaluation of what player resources he has had at his disposal. It seems to me that the drafting/recruitment over the last 3 years has been an attempt to redress the list deficiencies and errors made, under the stress and pressures of the expansion teams' largesse. By the targeting of mostly fast running and more skilful players.

But to reverse your final point, please provide your analysis of Hardwick's performance relative to all the other coaches this club has employed since our last flag. Also, with your profound insight and infallible knowledge, please indulge us with the identity of the unknown coaching messiah lurking in the wilderness to replace DH and lead us unerringly and immediately to the promised land?

LOL. Good logic. Us mugs can't see any prospective coaches out there, so they can't exist.

No point getting a recruiting firm to assist, or perhaps a panel of ex coaches?

You amuse me, Leon.

As for Hardwick, the stark change in tactics from 2013 to 2014 was there for all to see on the field. No expert knowledge required.

It is a change that was noted universally on here, dark and bright siders, boys and girls, republicans and democrats.

If you couldn't see it you weren't going to the footy.

 

[leon]

let's all skip happily to mid-table purgatory everyone, Leon-style! yay!

Oh! I hope no sad but telling signs of a boyhood marred by a sin-laden conscience revealed here? Perhaps Purgatory being a place you mostly lurk?

Just because we failed to make finals one in four years? That's factual, not cheap and shoddy sarcasm or BS. Yay! (notice the punctuation too)

 

[leon]

LOL. Good logic. Us mugs can't see any prospective coaches out there, so they can't exist.

No point getting a recruiting firm to assist, or perhaps a panel of ex coaches?

You amuse me, Leon.

As for Hardwick, the stark change in tactics from 2013 to 2014 was there for all to see on the field. No expert knowledge required.

It is a change that was noted universally on here, dark and bright siders, boys and girls, republicans and democrats.

If you couldn't see it you weren't going to the footy.

Just the usual evasion of my substantive points or challenges with more oh-so-blatant dodging, weaving, empty rhetoric. Just though I'd test if you'd changed at all.

Nope, still an empty vessel.

 

[Baron Samedi]

Just the usual evasion of my substantive points or challenges with more oh-so-blatant dodging, weaving, empty rhetoric. Just though I'd test if you'd changed at all.

Nope, still an empty vessel.

Crazy town.

Do you dispute that Hardwick significantly changed tactics in n the summer of 13/14?

A defensive black hole that he is yet to crawl out of?

Ok :hihi

 

[Tigertough1974]

How about you "chill", "dude 2"! Sick of posters responding with this. So what I just said to you is just as valid and relevant ... or completely vacuous! I don't need you to patronise me with such crap because I express an opinion here, but maybe you're smoking stuff or been watching too many old western movies where they call each other dude?

I never preached to him; simply expressed a contrary opinion and expressed my real doubts that any punter from the outside can make such sweeping statements based on a highly limited and superficial knowledge of a significant businesses full financial situation. I questioned, cast doubt and disagreed with his naive certainty and still do. Despite your counter-claims ... dude.

Then you do provide some valid points. Happy to revise Yazz's payout down to, hopefully 1/2M, but we do not KNOW that for certain. But you did not address the matter of keeping plenty in kitty for DM, plus Balme and new coaches have come in. Very likely to be on higher $ than previous 'budget' coaching crew. Other points of yours actually support my case - " I have not seen any club post budgets at all let alone in any detail, let alone qtrly forecasts with capex etc so we can only go off historical data."

So who still believes everything they read in the paper today .. or online? Seriously?

To restate my view. The club would have wasted precious and considerable, hard-earned funds coming off a poor year on-field and financially. I think many members like myself, who contribute much-needed and crucial revenue to the club, far prefer the current prudent course adopted i.e. to see if DH can turn it around in '17 season, re-contract vital players and personnel, plus reduce the damage of any possible payout to the head coach if he fails to deliver by late in the season. Such damage will then be definitely mitigated, possibly by even a resignation.

[BTW, opposed 2 year extension of DH].

happy to agree to disagree as im comfortable with the figures released, agree that the new coashes may be on more, however theres less of them... Anyhow we could go back and forth in 2017 costs of which no one on this site can be sure of, so no point, what we can be sure of is past released figures, which do include by virtue of numbers a range of information and a range of to simplify inflation on fixed costs etc etc so if you had the time and patience you could pretty much work out our 2017 outside of large capex spends... Im busy enough here running a business so I cant be bothered, however, Sintiger was absolutely correct based on current position, not 6 months or 12 months, current position!

with regards to dude, its an expression, similar to calling you mate, if your still at a loss, the expression is used frequently in The Big Lebowski, if you haven't watched it you should....

 

[leon]

OK, that's a post I find much more reasonable; you can even go with the duding if you really are attached to that (don't know the movie but tend to resent pandering to US culture).

To simplify my pov; whether we can afford it or not, surely you agree it's money for nothing! In the context of my other arguments e.g. no guarantees with the next coach succeeding, extra costs/losses. I think 2017 is going to be a transitional year anyway. Not that I think we can't or won't win plenty of games, just that our wagon of young talent is going to need more time to develop, although expecting progress this season.

Just another expense I remembered for 2017 - the VFL team - formerly sponsored by John(?) Russo, wealthy supporter who has fallen out with our board. I think I read that's another ~$300K.

I reiterate, Dimma was always going to be given a '17 contract (from early 2016 to avoid constant media harassment that would have compromised the club's effort). Last chance saloon for him. And halving a possible $1m+ burn too.

 

[Baron Samedi]

OK, that's a post I find much more reasonable; you can even go with the duding if you really are attached to that (don't know the movie but tend to resent pandering to US culture).

To simplify my pov; whether we can afford it or not, surely you agree it's money for nothing! In the context of my other arguments e.g. no guarantees with the next coach succeeding, extra costs/losses. I think 2017 is going to be a transitional year anyway. Not that I think we can't or won't win plenty of games, just that our wagon of young talent is going to need more time to develop, although expecting progress this season.

Just another expense I remembered for 2017 - the VFL team - formerly sponsored by John(?) Russo, wealthy supporter who has fallen out with our board. I think I read that's another ~$300K.

I reiterate, Dimma was always going to be given a '17 contract (from early 2106 to avoid constant media harassment that would have compromised the club's effort). Last chance saloon for him. And halving a possible $1m+ burn too.

you haven't seen The Big Lebowski?

that explains everything.

 

[Tigertough1974]

OK, that's a post I find much more reasonable; you can even go with the duding if you really are attached to that (don't know the movie but tend to resent pandering to US culture).

To simplify my pov; whether we can afford it or not, surely you agree it's money for nothing! In the context of my other arguments e.g. no guarantees with the next coach succeeding, extra costs/losses. I think 2017 is going to be a transitional year anyway. Not that I think we can't or won't win plenty of games, just that our wagon of young talent is going to need more time to develop, although expecting progress this season.

Just another expense I remembered for 2017 - the VFL team - formerly sponsored by John(?) Russo, wealthy supporter who has fallen out with our board. I think I read that's another ~$300K.

I reiterate, Dimma was always going to be given a '17 contract (from early 2106 to avoid constant media harassment that would have compromised the club's effort). Last chance saloon for him. And halving a possible $1m+ burn too.

Got it. Ive been a staunch supporter of Dimma, however last years play literally made me turn the TV off at times which I cant say I have ever done before.

Im on the fence although think we probably should have made a change, if we put in/play like last year I think money is irrelevant, its time for a change.

You really should watch it, its a classic, may even dust him off this weekend..

 

[tigerman]

I reiterate, Dimma was always going to be given a '17 contract (from early 2106 to avoid constant media harassment that would have compromised the club's effort). Last chance saloon for him. And halving a possible $1m+ burn too.

The mistake the club made was giving Dimma the 2 year extension. If we have another bad season this year, Dimma himself could not feel hard done by if he was to be let go.
Having to pay Dimma out for 2018 would be costly, (especially with the poor crowds and membership that a bad 2017 would bring) and would be confirmation to most that the club erred in giving Dimma an extra two years.

 

[chislop]

Surely the review last year confirmed that the 2016 game plan was horrid. If the game plan changes significantly this year, a gal could be forgiven for thinking that Dimma's strings are being pulled and that one of the assistants (my money would be on Caracella) is being groomed for succession, and is doing most of the coaching. I don't think Dimma can make this game plan transition on his own so this year will see whether he has survived the wind being knocked out of him in 2016. If he persists with his defence at all costs approach, he'll be gawn by the bye. This is my humble opinion only. I know nussing.

 

[Sintiger]

Thanks, teacher, but you think you know all you need to know from what any club publishes? Really? Even though every club reports in different ways? You, in your expertise though, had no trouble reconciling the $1m already blown in the Yarran write-off, of course? Nor the need to load up to get Dusty re-contracted? Not to mention all the other complex financial business involved in running a multi-million $ business? No, you're all over it? I trust you ...
:hihi

BTW, the 'should' part was my rhetorical comment. Is that OK by you?

You are welcome. I have actually taught Finance at a tertiary level so if you want a few tips let me know.

Have a look at the post I responded to which was a simple comment that we couldn't afford the payout. We can clearly.

Th decision about doing it should be based on the what is best for the on field performance of the team.

 

[Leysy Days]

You are welcome. I have actually taught Finance at a tertiary level so if you want a few tips let me know.

Ouch. :hihi

 

[tigertim]

We do seem to have an early clubhouse leader for the Most Obnoxious Pompous Hypocritical Orator (MOPHO) award on the PRE boards for 2017.

 

[Leysy Days]

Thanks Tim.

 

[YinnarTiger]

We do seem to have an early clubhouse leader for the Most Obnoxious Pompous Hypocritical Orator (MOPHO) award on the PRE boards for 2017.

In defence of the baron, he has advanced some very pertinent and insightful opinions in the positives thread.

 

[shawry]

.