When will Bernie go !!

[tigertim]

There's this odd correlation where it seems that at the time Richmond is flying and things are looking great coincides with PRE bring at its most boring.

 

[Baron Samedi]

There's this odd correlation where it seems that at the time Richmond is flying and things are looking great coincides with PRE bring at its most boring.

Yes, the realists are happy whilst the cheer squad like to jump on here and cry about not getting any recognition :hihi

 

[AngryAnt]

Fair post Anty. I think Dimma said they smash defence - meaning structured and disciplined and then freeball a bit more in attack.

But even the offence has rules. The big change in ball movement is that we go forward a lot more and sideways moves are a prelude to attack.

Absolutely. And we break forward in numbers - defences can't keep up. Our forward movement is absolutely well-drilled.

Your last paragraph is way off the mark however. Forward pressure has always been a Hardwick mantra but he was just incompetent in implementing it. Dimma played three talls and usually only 5 forwards and expected them to keep the ball in. I think he was blessed when he had Kingy who actually did the pressure work of two or three players, one of the reasons I loved the little fella.

I mentioned in previous years how if you wanted to play 'forward pressure' get more numbers in and get the right personnel in. We have actually lacked a reliable second and third tall for years now. In 2013 we relied on Aaron Edwards and Mcguane FFS.

Yes, agree to a point Lamby. Another poster here (sorry forget who) made the point we've gone from a forward pressure to create stoppages to a forward pressure to create turnovers. I think this is a brilliant analysis of what we do now.

Dimma's always been about pressure and defence as you say - one of the reasons we did well in 2015 was also pressure around the ball and discipline in defensive zoning - but he didn't have the right mix of tactics and players. It's why Stevie Morris did his thing in F50 but with Ty and the other lower quality talls it just wasn't going to work. I think Ty gets somewhat of a bad rap on here but if Dimma was serious about this he should have flicked him a lot earlier - he's just not that type of player and Dimma couldn't change that in a million years.

All sorts of tactics are open to coaches. Our present one may have developed through circumstance but it could as easily have been tried in 2013. Our mosquitoes are great but King Shed Whitey and Foley could well have exerted speed pressure class and goal kicking nous in 2013.

I don't think many of Hardwick's critics have suggested he was not good at culture or defence.

He just had a tin ear in relation to offence or players who played on intuition (like Martin and Jack) and was a very poor innovative thinker although OK as an implementer of others ideas (primarily Clarkson's until this year.)

The model is working well now but you wouldn't want to lose Leppa and Blake (or Balmey). We had a bit of a dip when Leppa and Campbell left at the end of 2013.

Definitely agree on Martin - he's the intuitive footballer par excellence - except that coaches have said he works really hard on his deficiencies - contested ball was a good example. The coach (can't remember which one) said they showed him footage of Selwood and the like winning contested ball and what they did - Dusty said "yeah I can do that", worked on it and we've seen the results. Disagree somewhat on Jack though. He's a natural intuitive forward but is playing an amazingly disciplined and selfless role as a solitary key forward this year.

Agree we have a great coaching setup now - we need to keep them together.

 

[Harry]

I'm surprised the more erudite of the Darksiders don't recognise the "Just Play" mantra as a conscious chook-feeding exercise from the club post-2016. We all know the stop-look-pass game plan disappeared into a cul-de-sac that year and had to be consigned to history. And the club had to sell a vision of a more positive brand in a simple, marketing-savvy way. Marketing theory says you can't sell a complex message, so you sell a simple one. And the Darkside bought it because it fits their "release the handbrake" critique to a T.

But if you actually look at how we play now, it's absolutely more attacking but still highly disciplined defensively and in intensity - I'd say more disciplined in many ways. Here's some examples.

1. High tackling pressure to create turnovers in F50. This has capitalised on a significant change in personnel but more importantly a big change in culture and intent. Goals from free kicks or we snap up the desperation kicks/handballs and go inside 50 again, or another scoring shot.

2. Relentless tackling pressure around the ground. See above - it all starts in F50 but the whole team carries out this philosophy from the mids to the backs. Personified by Cotchin and Prestia (and Nank) in the midfield. Grimes/Rance/Broad/Ellis in defense do this too.

3. Numbers to the contest. We win games because our fast runners get to the contest. This involves highly disciplined running back to get numbers to contests when we've lost the ball or the oppo has managed to get the ball out of their defensive 50. This has won us games - our fitness, youth and focus allows us to do this all game. Sides can match us for a half or a quarter through a major effort of will but they can't go with us for 120 minutes.

4. Preventing the switch of play/preventing easy pass/handball chains out of defence and into oppo F50. Requires incredibly disciplined zoning and marking to stop the switch. Last week Geelong also did this well to us just as they did at Skilled, but we still found ways through the corridor to score. By the end of the third quarter thanks to Dusty they couldn't do this anymore. But the point is that we make it incredibly hard for a side to bring the ball forward - that involves gut running, communication, leadership and physicality. That's discipline. Also helps our defense do their best work - almost all inside 50s are high balls into a contest or it's an easy intercept and we are going to win the ball back 70 times out of 100.

5. When we force a turnover - numbers at the contest, hard nuts Caddy/Cotch/Prestia/Sheds (with magic hands) will win the ball and get it out to a Dusty or another runner to bust them open. And we run in packs - once the ball is ours our mozzies immediately have the running patterns in F50 to get loose to receive a pass and boom, shot on goal. That's highly disciplined.

I'd look at it this way - as Dimma stated, Leppa trialled the small forward setup preseason, and then we doubled down on it as injury forced our hand - but it turned out to be highly successful. That's a successful pivot and Dimma and the coaching panel deserve great credit to see the potential and exploit it. Blake brought new midfield patterns and spread - no doubt. But that's only part of the story. Dimma brings - as he always has - discipline, focus, inspiration, man-management. And as all good leaders do, he lets his lieutenants play to their strengths.

As a last point - the Darksider notion that this game plan could have paid off in 2012-14 is peculiar. Just thinking about a forward line consisting of Tyrone/Griffins/Aaron Edwards/Chris Knights trying to execute a forward 50 intense pressure turnover game is hilarious. They wouldn't win many games but they might win the comedy premiership.

You are actually supporting what the real-siders have been criticising hardwick for during the past few years. We've been a very low tackling, low defensive pressure side and hardwicks philosophy was all about winning the hard ball and securing the ball via slow possession, working it up the field aiming to create another stoppage where we set up and go again. We were statues on the field and he was slow to realise that we needed to improve our ball movement and running patterns both offensively and defensively. Doubt he was the one who realised we needed to drastically change the way we play but some of you can believe that if you want.

 

[AngryAnt]

I'd agree with some of that Harry, except I'd say he want to move the ball up slowly by foot to an uncontested mark. Then repeat. If this doesn't work, create a stoppage and reset. And this nearly got us fourth place in the 8 in 2015 don't forget.

I'm kind of over the whole Dimma is *smile*/Dimma is great dichotomy to be honest.

 

[evo]

I'd agree with some of that Harry, except I'd say he want to move the ball up slowly by foot to an uncontested mark. Then repeat. If this doesn't work, create a stoppage and reset. And this nearly got us fourth place in the 8 in 2015 don't forget.

I'm kind of over the whole Dimma is sh!t/Dimma is great dichotomy to be honest.

Yeah, we definitly mix it up. That's the smart way to play, let the circumstances dictate the best approach.

I feel like we are probably most similar to Sydney at them moment - different tempos. It's the plan most suited to high pressure finals.

 

[an_oxford_man]

Yeah, we definitly mix it up. That's the smart way to play, let the circumstances dictate the best approach.

I feel like we are probably most similar to Sydney at them moment - different tempos. It's the plan most suited to high pressure finals.

Agree 100%, Evo.

 

[AngryAnt]

I feel like we are probably most similar to Sydney at them moment - different tempos. It's the plan most suited to high pressure finals.

Yep. Either by complete chance or sheer genius Dimma has hit on the magic formula :hihi

 

[lamb22]

Absolutely. And we break forward in numbers - defences can't keep up. Our forward movement is absolutely well-drilled.

Yes, agree to a point Lamby. Another poster here (sorry forget who) made the point we've gone from a forward pressure to create stoppages to a forward pressure to create turnovers. I think this is a brilliant analysis of what we do now.

Yep I remember that post. Good point. In those days we played for stoppages and territory.

2013 was not that far different from today. We actually led the comp in relation to the progression of the game style basically through the use of Kingy.

If you look at our home and away seasons 2013 and 2017 identical on wins and close on percentage 118 in 2017 and 122 in 2013.

We reacted to the Carlton loss in the wrong way and did a U turn while other clubs continued on our 2013 track.

Shame because we may have been a player in those years but as I said on another thread top 4 doesn't guarantee a flag just gives you a shot and this year things have played out beautifully and we have our best chance.

I have actually been confident since the Freo game. What an un Richmond like game in that we won by 100 points which we had to do to give us a chance at top 4.

Different feel in that game and it has continued through St Kilda and Geelong. It's building!

 

[lamb22]

There's really only a minute difference of opinion on this thread. The Fanbois think Dimma is Sherlock Holmes while the realists know him better as Sheer Luck Holmes .

Shout out to Gene Wilder!

 

[lamb22]

of course we might be over-complicating things a bit

Since 2014 Dimma's win percentage with Hammer out is 67.85% and with Hammer in it's 37.14%

 

[Harry]

There's really only a minute difference of opinion on this thread. The Fanbois think Dimma is Sherlock Holmes while the realists know him better as Sheer Luck Holmes .

Shout out to Gene Wilder!

lol.

Reminds me of the inspector gadget cartoons where gadget got the credit for solving the cases while Penny and Brain worked tirelessly in the background.

 

[Brodders17]

I will have find the thread where FJ and Hartley get all the credit for building a list from rubbish to Ferrari in just a few years.
My mind must be playing tricks tho cos my memory tells me they have been widely attacked on this forum for being hopeless.

 

[ninjahaha]

There's really only a minute difference of opinion on this thread. The Fanbois think Dimma is Sherlock Holmes while the realists know him better as Sheer Luck Holmes .

Wow...


Now we are really close! I Agree, we are all talking about the elephant!


From my perspective the many "fanboys," have been saying, hardwick is not a dud, while he takes the club fwd, stop pumping hate and see if club stability and he can take us to the promised land.


But the way you guys spit and p155 on him has been transferred on to anyone who doesn't join the linch mob.






From your perspective this is some claiming he is a coaching god!

 

[evo]

Yep. Either by complete chance or sheer genius Dimma has hit on the magic formula :hihi

It's no mystery, my man. Leppacella is the answer you seek. ;D

 

[Mappa]

One small point boys without getting into the she said he said stuff.

Recategorising Darksiders in to realists is the funniest thing I've heard on the entire site.

There is nothing wrong with either argument but dont act like a darksider and tell us your tinker bell.

Be proud to be a darksider.........................realist, please.

 

[lamb22]

Wow...


Now we are really close! I Agree, we are all talking about the elephant!


From my perspective the many "fanboys," have been saying, hardwick is not a dud, while he takes the club fwd, stop pumping hate and see if club stability and he can take us to the promised land.


But the way you guys spit and p155 on him has been transferred on to anyone who doesn't join the linch mob.






From your perspective this is some claiming he is a coaching god!

I thought it was punny and not much more. Hurricanes and famine and North Korea might be more suitable subjects to get angry about.

 

[lamb22]

One small point boys without getting into the she said he said stuff.

Recategorising Darksiders in to realists is the funniest thing I've heard on the entire site.

There is nothing wrong with either argument but dont act like a darksider and tell us your tinker bell.

Be proud to be a darksider.........................realist, please.

I've always been brightsider on the core of our list Mappa.

Just a realist on what Damian brings to the table.

 

[shawry]

This thread more than any other has seen people make claims about things that they obviously know nothing about. So many baseless opinions have been represented as facts. So much *smile*.

About Hardwicks character, about the impact his "negative" coaching has had on the psyche of the players, how their poor goalkicking is due to his negativity, how he used to see players as Kpis rather than people, the way he had nothing to do with this years changes, how he was forced into change kicking and screaming, how he pulls the handbrake when we get 5 goals up in games, how he has had no input in the gameplan, how Balme has him under a tight rein, how he had to be sent overseas so they could change the gameplan, how when his drones are selected it's because he overrules the rest of the selectors, when kids are selected the rest of the selectors overrule him, how his motivational message isn't up to scratch.

How when we win it's the assistants who get the credit and when we lose it's the coach's fault. How every press conference would be pulled apart to find a sentence to take out of context and use against him. And on it goes.

All these 'facts' spewed forth by people who have not only never met the man so know nothing about his character, but have never set foot inside an afl club or an afl coaches box so therefore know nothing about what happens.

So much *smile*, yet despite how ridiculous it is, people keep spinning it.

Post of the year!!!! Very eloquently said and accurate.

 

[Harry]

It's no mystery, my man. Leppacella is the answer you seek. ;D

We replaced Driving Miss Daisy with Michael Schumacher in the Ferrari.

Vrooooom !!!!