Welcome to Tigerland - Tim Taranto

[toothless]

Surprised Setterfield hasn't been mentioned. What does Taranto do Setterfield can't? Dodo got him essentially for free and is arguably playing as well if not better than Taranto thus far

 

[momentai]

There's a few points that I've mentioned on this topic, if we're 16th instead of 13th and sitting on a top 5 pick, which scenario would you prefer? Taranto or no Taranto? Secondly, the guy who is near the top of the contested chart went for a couple of third round picks, not 2 firsts, that sums up perfectly the flaws in our approach. We didn't even get the better clearance player by the looks of things. Grundy was another who would have stiffened up the clearance numbers, next week has the potential to be brutal, Miller or Ryan in for a roasting.

Taranto didn’t cost us this years first rounder.

 

[bullus_hit]

Taranto didn’t cost us this years first rounder.

No he didn't but his inclusion has put a handbrake on the rebuild, you could argue he is part of the rebuild but the danger of these trades (much like O'Meara) is that you wind up middling and being shut of any top level talent further down the track. Hawthorn have realised this and begun the clear out, it only takes a couple of years of top picks to get your house in order. If I'm being brutally honest, I think Taranto is a like for like replacement for Kane Lambert, the difference in draft capital stark & 7 years excessive in the extreme. When you get cheap plug & plays you at least have some levers to pull, play the kids if the season is toast, target a couple of franchise players in the draft. This can still be done of course but it will have to be next year & beyond.

 

[Little Ziggyadee]

No he didn't but his inclusion has put a handbrake on the rebuild, you could argue he is part of the rebuild but the danger of these trades (much like O'Meara) is that you wind up middling and being shut of any top level talent further down the track. Hawthorn have realised this and begun the clear out, it only takes a couple of years of top picks to get your house in order. If I'm being brutally honest, I think Taranto is a like for like replacement for Kane Lambert, the difference in draft capital stark & 7 years excessive in the extreme. When you get cheap plug & plays you at least have some levers to pull, play the kids if the season is toast, target a couple of franchise players in the draft. This can still be done of course but it will have to be next year & beyond.

Come on mann
We haven't nailed a 1st rounder since Elvis was alive.
Giving away 1st rounders dosent stop or Start rebuilds.

 

[bullus_hit]

Come on mann
We haven't nailed a 1st rounder since Elvis was alive.
Giving away 1st rounders dosent stop or Start rebuilds.

We have nailed our top 5 picks, best player in 2007 & 2009. We nailed the 2006 draft with pick 13, again the best in the draft class. We got a top tier defender with pick 9, we got a premiership player in Ellis with pick 15 (in a compromised draft), we got a top class rebounder with pick 12 in Dan Rioli. The moment you adopt that attitude is the moment you may as well pack it in and find a new vocation. I get some of the frustration with the current recruitement philosophy and that needs to be addressed but if your attitude is to ditch the draft then you are dragging us back to the nineties and early 2000s where we chased guys like Biddiscombe & Rory Hilton.

 

[bullus_hit]

We would've had to shaft Taranto who we'd been wooing for 12 to 18 months or so, and throw more dollars/draft capital to beat out other suitors. Yes you can certainly say we could've pursued a more conservative trading strategy, but I don't think you could guarantee you'd get Mitchell and/or Grundy. They could've simply said no to us and chosen the clubs they've ended up at anyway. We could've been left with no additional help at all and having burnt a player (and his manager).

This is part of the problem, we committed to a player 18 months out and haven't adjusted the approach based on the availability of other players. When we walk into a meeting with GWS they know we want to recoup the man hours spent wooing players, this has been their modus operandi for a decade and is the reason they screw over every club they deal with. When Soldo was dangled I knew GWS were in full extraction mode, it's like hypnosis when dealing with this mob. Richmond could & should have insisted on 1 pick for Taranto & 1 pick for Hopper. If GWS say no then tough titties, we did our best.

 

[Scoop]

This is part of the problem, we committed to a player 18 months out and haven't adjusted the approach based on the availability of other players. When we walk into a meeting with GWS they know we want to recoup the man hours spent wooing players, this has been their modus operandi for a decade and is the reason they screw over every club they deal with. When Soldo was dangled I knew GWS were in full extraction mode, it's like hypnosis when dealing with this mob. Richmond could & should have insisted on 1 pick for Taranto & 1 pick for Hopper. If GWS say no then tough titties, we did our best.

That's modern day footy, you have to commit a long time out. It's folly to suggest we could have walked into Mitchell discussions at the last minute and got him. To think that 1 pick for either player was a fair offer is madness compared to what is going in the market. And the amount of time spent wooing players is totally irrelevant. I bet there is a number of players we haven't closed out that we've spent as much time as Hopper and Tatanto on. You can't strike up a conversation a month before trade time and start talking. You'd rightly call it amateur hour.

And for all the wheeling and dealing you give GWS credit for, it hasn't produced much. They've gone backward since our GF. For the amount of concessions, they've had that club has underperformed.

 

[bullus_hit]

That's modern day footy, you have to commit a long time out. It's folly to suggest we could have walked into Mitchell discussions at the last minute and got him. To think that 1 pick for either player was a fair offer is madness compared to what is going in the market. And the amount of time spent wooing players is totally irrelevant. I bet there is a number of players we haven't closed out that we've spent as much time as Hopper and Tatanto on. You can't strike up a conversation a month before trade time and start talking. You'd rightly call it amateur hour.

And for all the wheeling and dealing you give GWS credit for, it hasn't produced much. They've gone backward since our GF. For the amount of concessions, they've had that club has underperformed.

This is where our valuations are poles apart, the only tinsel with Taranto was the fact he was a former pick 2 but aside from that he is one-paced with questionable kicking, he hasn't become the goal kicker many thought he would become and he was probably ranked as GWS's fourth mid behind Kelly, Ward & Coniglio. Hopper was coming off PCL surgery & was soon to become a free agent. If GWS aren't happy with a top 20 pick then fine, we take Hopper as a free agent in 2023. If Hopper gets picked up by Geelong then so be it, go back to the draft and see what you can muster. There is absolutely no way these guys would command the same compensation this year, the laws of diminishing returns already kicking in.

As for GWS and their recruiting, not great but also bear in mind they lost Cameron, that alone leaves a gaping hole. The fact they are average recruiters should also be a red light when they start asking the earth for players who haven't brought them silverware. We have fallen for the same tricks they used with Shiel & Treloar & would have been better served cutting a deal on par with a Jack Steele or Taylor Adams.

 

[Scoop]

This is where our valuations are poles apart,

Whoa, I'm not talking ability or who we got. I'm talking about how the deals came to happen. And Collingwood were into Taranto big time, his final choice was Richmond over Collingwood.

https://www.codesports.com.au/afl/r...d/news-story/728510a39da59cad3d104dbd90c89523

If Taranto went to Collingwood, they don't take Mitchell. And Mitchell to Collingwood happened late when it become public that he was going, he was the backup plan. And Collingwood planned well, they should get a lot of credit for still filling a need after their number one target rejected them.

 

[bullus_hit]

Whoa, I'm not talking ability or who we got. I'm talking about how the deals came to happen. And Collingwood were into Taranto big time, his final choice was Richmond over Collingwood.

https://www.codesports.com.au/afl/r...d/news-story/728510a39da59cad3d104dbd90c89523

If Taranto went to Collingwood, they don't take Mitchell. And Mitchell to Collingwood happened late when it become public that he was going, he was the backup plan. And Collingwood planned well, they should get a lot of credit for still filling a need after their number one target rejected them.

Agreed, first class contingency planning & sometimes missing players in the annual meat market can prove itself to be a silver lining. When Collingwood won the Treloar battle Richmond profiteered with Prestia & Dan Rioli, things in reverse this time around, the constant in all this is the GWS brokering lopsided deals which wind up having long term ramifications.

 

[Smoking Aces]

This is where our valuations are poles apart, the only tinsel with Taranto was the fact he was a former pick 2 but aside from that he is one-paced with questionable kicking, he hasn't become the goal kicker many thought he would become and he was probably ranked as GWS's fourth mid behind Kelly, Ward & Coniglio. Hopper was coming off PCL surgery & was soon to become a free agent. If GWS aren't happy with a top 20 pick then fine, we take Hopper as a free agent in 2023. If Hopper gets picked up by Geelong then so be it, go back to the draft and see what you can muster. There is absolutely no way these guys would command the same compensation this year, the laws of diminishing returns already kicking in.

As for GWS and their recruiting, not great but also bear in mind they lost Cameron, that alone leaves a gaping hole. The fact they are average recruiters should also be a red light when they start asking the earth for players who haven't brought them silverware. We have fallen for the same tricks they used with Shiel & Treloar & would have been better served cutting a deal on par with a Jack Steele or Taylor Adams.

BH you make things sound so easy but in reality what you suggest is far from reality.

Your approach would cause future trades to be impossible to manufacture as players look at clubs who can trust clubs they can engage with. And like @Scoop said these trades are months in the making.

 

[bullus_hit]

BH you make things sound so easy but in reality what you suggest is far from reality.

Your approach would cause future trades to be impossible to manufacture as players look at clubs who can trust clubs they can engage with. And like @Scoop said these trades are months in the making.

Of course you need to court players but it's just as important to have a cap on the capital you are willing to cough up. It's a bit like sticking to your guns when buying a house, if it's over your ability to make the repayments then bail and focus on the next opportunity. The club valued Taranto at two top 20 picks, that's overs for a player who wasn't even in the Giants top 3 midfielders. It's also overs when there were numerous salary cap dumps in play & it's overs in the context of handing out 7 year deals for a position type that is relatively common. As a template for moving forward it's a recipe for mediocrity & I doubt we'll ever be going down this path again, particularly if the Hopper bill winds up being a top end pick.

 

[Smoking Aces]

Of course you need to court players but it's just as important to have a cap on the capital you are willing to cough up. It's a bit like sticking to your guns when buying a house, if it's over you ability to make the repayments then bail and focus on the next opportunity. The club valued Taranto at two top 20 picks, that's overs for a player who wasn't even in the Giants top 3 midfielders. It's also overs when there were numerous salary cap dumps in play & it's overs in the context of handing out 7 year deals for a position type that is relatively common. As a template for moving forward it's a recipe for mediocrity & I doubt we'll ever be going down this path again, particularly if the Hopper bill winds up being a top end pick.

The overpayment can be viewed as an exaggeration. It was actually picks 14 & 22. Hardly earth shattering stuff.

 

[bullus_hit]

The overpayment can be viewed as an exaggeration. It was actually picks 14 & 22. Hardly earth shattering stuff.

I see things differently, those were potential fixes in a rebuild and an opportunity to address some holes in the list. This type of spending is for key forwards or well rounded mids, not ones who don't hurt you on the spread. I could have dealt with pick 12 in isolation but once you start betting against multiple players & potential 200 gamers you wind up losing. Taranto has also become part of the problem because we are still a very poor clearance side, finding another specialist challenging with a minor hand in next year's draft. If it's pick 25 or thereabouts there might be an opening, let's wait and see. Guys like Miller, Bolton and Beams occasionally present themselves so we shouldn't be totally distraught about the future. But I will say this much, the legacy of Jackson is just about on its final run, Dan Rioli will be his last remnant, from here on end it's the Clarke show.

 

[forward press]

Taranto is part of our clearance problem now? Geez. He’s 16th in the LEAGUE for centre bounce cleanses and 32nd in the LEAGUE for stoppage clearances.

 

[bullus_hit]

Taranto is part of our clearance problem now? Geez. He’s 16th in the LEAGUE for centre bounce cleanses and 32nd in the LEAGUE for stoppage clearances.

Richmond are ranked 14th for clearances, the problem hasn't gone away with the addition of Taranto.

 

[Leysy Days]

Of course you need to court players but it's just as important to have a cap on the capital you are willing to cough up. It's a bit like sticking to your guns when buying a house, if it's over your ability to make the repayments then bail and focus on the next opportunity. The club valued Taranto at two top 20 picks, that's overs for a player who wasn't even in the Giants top 3 midfielders. It's also overs when there were numerous salary cap dumps in play & it's overs in the context of handing out 7 year deals for a position type that is relatively common. As a template for moving forward it's a recipe for mediocrity & I doubt we'll ever be going down this path again, particularly if the Hopper bill winds up being a top end pick.

What would you have done last draft/trade period Bullus?

Can't recall you ever mentioning to us what you would have done?

 

[bullus_hit]

What would you have done last draft/trade period Bullus?

Can't recall you ever mentioning to us what you would have done?

Will Brodie was my suggestion with regards to clearances, a low ball risk with reasonable upside, much better to look at GC youngsters, plenty have underperformed so you are generally getting good bang for the buck. At the draft I would have taken Johnson over Brown & Howes over Banks, not radically different but a much more balanced blend of players.

 

[Leysy Days]

Will Brodie was my suggestion with regards to clearances, a low ball risk with reasonable upside, much better to look at GC youngsters, plenty have underperformed so you are generally getting good bang for the buck. At the draft I would have taken Johnson over Brown & Howes over Banks, not radically different but a much more balanced blend of players.

Sorry was talking about the most recent trade/draft period. Hadn't read you mentioning names/what you would have done anywhere?

 

[bullus_hit]

Sorry was talking about the most recent trade/draft period. Hadn't read you mentioning names/what you would have done anywhere?

I was actually debating whether that post was being facetious or civil, I guess I won't be making that mistake again.