Welcome to the Tiggers - Daniel Butler

[lamb22]

We might have to play Grimes on him!

 

[Number8]

The only good i can see, to come out of seeing Bulter and Ellis doing so well at new clubs is the next group to exit will be held in higher regard towards compensation.

Yep, that is my hope too. What's done is done but I hope we have learned from it.

But I don't accept giving him away so cheaply - a star premiership player in the 2017 season has to be valued more.

Yeah, I don't begrudge him wanting to find a new home where he might get more opportunity, but that actually shouldn't affect his trade value. Connecting the two is lazy.

As I always say you get what the market will bear.

Yep, you've been consistent on that, fair enough. I look at it the other way: it's up to us to set the price. I accept we see things differently on that front. I'm not sure how to link our previous discussion but it was in the Rance thread... could have been a little after trade time.

I take comfort in the fact that we are still going well without him

We'd be going ape droppings if we'd slipped down the ladder

Receiving pick 56 for a fringe player was a fair deal at the time.

Nup. Age, proven ability, coming from a winning culture, going to a club with a desperate need for his type. We got bent over, fair and square. Take a deep breath, admit the mistake and move on... it happens. You'll feel so much better Also, don't forget the Saints targeted him. They will be laughing with how little they had to give up to land him.

He's making us look stupid. If we still had him he'd be making us look awesome. Ah, well. C'est la vie and good luck to the lad. In three or four years time when we take a spell from winning flags, I hope he kicks an inside-out banana on the left from the third row in the last seconds to beat Collingwood in a grand final.

Agree on every count!

 

[DavidSSS]

Butler was struggling to break into the side. However, what he was capable of we had seen in 2017, and it certainly looks like the injury took a long time to recover.

No issue with Butler going to StKilda for the opportunities and hopefully getting fair recompense.

I do have an issue with a player of that age, with a premiership, with proven ability, being worth so little in terms of a late draft pick.

DS

 

[BT Tiger]

Nup. Age, proven ability, coming from a winning culture, going to a club with a desperate need for his type. We got bent over, fair and square. Take a deep breath, admit the mistake and move on... it happens. You'll feel so much better Also, don't forget the Saints targeted him. They will be laughing with how little they had to give up to land him.

Admittedly I only have a vague recollection of the trade period (i was basking in a post-premiership afterglow and wasn't paying much attention to the off season), but other posters have suggested that Dan's to the Saints was one of the last to go through during that trade period.

Assuming this is correct, then St Kilda hardly showed desperation to snatch up a player with "proven ability" - neither did any other AFL club. If his potential was so obvious then we would likely have been offered a better deal - and likely taken it! The fact that didn't occur suggests pick 56 was about his market value at the time.

 

[craig]

We might have to play Grimes on him!

Baker

 

[Brettstigers]

Baker

Baker had better learn to run. Butler proved again that if you aren't quite as fast he can bounce while going flat maggot and walk you all the way to the goal square.
Yes he is back to the best form he showed for us. He never got dropped when he was in that form. Good luck to him.

 

[Baloo]

Really happy to see Dan going so well. No regrets at all in helping him get to another club. But it does rankle a bit that we get next to F.A. for him and Ellis.

Hopefully other clubs start appreciating the worth of a Tiger reject and offer up a bit more. We play such a team oriented game that it must shadow a players individual abilities at times.

 

[Harry]

We play such a team oriented game that it must shadow a players individual abilities at times.

This is an important aspect. we don't play pretty football and we rely alot on structure and system where marking and owning space and applying pressure is more important than the possessions you have. I suspect Butler wasn't performing as well at this as rioli and castagna and why he was on the outer. He's very good with the ball in full flight and st.kildas attacking and open style would suit him better, but he did struggle to scrap which is a big part of what our small forwards are asked to do.

 

[Jason King]

I dont see the issue here, he is playing out of his skin and never consistently showed that when he played for us. The majority of his goals are from out the back / over the top transition footy. He could barely move from a straight line while running fast for us.

I aint gonna cheer for him dont get me wrong, but he is a good lad and I hope we smash the saints next time we play them

 

[Number8]

other posters have suggested that Dan's to the Saints was one of the last to go through during that trade period.

His trade was done on the same day as those of Jack Steven, Brad Hill, Josh Bruce, Alex Keath, Zak Jones, James Aish and Zac Smith, amongst others. While it was indeed the last day of the trade period, more than half of all deals were done on that day.

Don't be mistaken, Butler was targeted by the Saints a long way out from the draft. A premiership player, elite pace and filled a need. They simply needed some cards to fall their way... and a compliant Richmond ready to receive whatever was on offer late in the day.

I don't have any inside knowledge but I'd seriously doubt his trade was ever in jeopardy.

 

[bigwow]

We didn't get bent over in the trade.

Daniel Butler might have played in a premiership for us, and therefore be considered a "premiership hero", but he was no "star" in terms of AFL prowess.

Receiving pick 56 for a fringe player was a fair deal at the time. hindsight is 20-20

Presume this is effectively the pick used to draft Bigoa Nyuon? We may still come out in front.

 

[Number8]

I dont see the issue here, he is playing out of his skin and never consistently showed that when he played for us. The majority of his goals are from out the back / over the top transition footy. He could barely move from a straight line while running fast for us.

Butler's 2017 season was brilliant.

Rising Star nominee, 8th in the B&F (premiership year, no less), club award for the best debut player that season, made more tackles (83) and booted more goals (30) than any other 2017 rising star nominee, kicked the sealer in the GF.

How quickly we forget!

 

[Tenacious]

Butler's 2017 season was brilliant.

Rising Star nominee, 8th in the B&F (premiership year, no less), club award for the best debut player that season, made more tackles (83) and booted more goals (30) than any other 2017 rising star nominee, kicked the sealer in the GF.

How quickly we forget!

How quickly we forget
And how quickly we react to something - after the event - and then use perfect hindsight to rationalise why we should have done something differently

 

[AngryAnt]

The slant of much of my post was firstly that Dan Butler was/is just 23 and therefore a very young player who had not reached anything like his potential e.g. Chol is just showing AFL abilities now at 23; look at Aarts. Form fluctuates and a smart list manager values a player at their best for the given club, not at some knockdown value. Do you think clubs' trade deals are intended to help rivals with a leg-up in the spirit of kumbaya?

Secondly, I was saying, we were in the best position to know all about his capabilities. Us supporters aren't at every training or VFL game; we don't have his medical info to factor in. But the club has all the expert knowledge.

It's a proven fact: we under-valued him NOW. He's 2nd in the Coleman and kicking sublime goals. Could we use him atm? The Saints have jumped ahead of us on the ladder and in defeating us as well, thanks largely to his performances. Someone posted elsewhere that Saints would only be about 10-12 on the ladder without his input. (forget exactly)

We got it wrong in both respects. Face it. But the Rioli factor, Higgins awful situation, Dan's own form struggles, but most of all, the Rance fiasco is to blame. It was probably unavoidable in that fuller context.

Trading is a buyer's market for a player who can't make the seniors. I'm still unsure why people find this a difficult concept to grasp.

 

[Tigertool]

it's up to us to set the price.

The market sets the price.

 

[Jason King]

Butler's 2017 season was brilliant.

Rising Star nominee, 8th in the B&F (premiership year, no less), club award for the best debut player that season, made more tackles (83) and booted more goals (30) than any other 2017 rising star nominee, kicked the sealer in the GF.

How quickly we forget!

An element of truth to that, but I don't think he was consistent. He is like a different player at the Saints.

 

[Baloo]

Despite the pittance we got for our players, we're still way ahead thanks to the Lynch deal.

 

[AngryAnt]

Despite the pittance we got for our players, we're still way ahead thanks to the Lynch deal.

also the Deledio deal

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

How quickly we forget!

Shaun Hampson was first emergency for the grand final. A lot has happened since.

 

[JimJessTorp]

also the Deledio deal

And Vickery