Welcome to the Tiggers - Daniel Butler | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Welcome to the Tiggers - Daniel Butler

The club has said they will do what they can to aide fringe players movements easily if they need to move on. Hard to extract more value when he barely played and was out of contract. I agree he was worth more than pick 56 to us, but understand the fact other clubs didn’t line up to grab him. His deal was one of the last done in trade week with St Kilda seemingly his only suitor.

I think this part is the key. He was traded very late in the trade period. The whole time looking like it was Carlton that would trade for him, but then they dithered, dithered some more over Papley.

The media giving plenty to St Kilda for their targeted recruiting. Did they really target him? They targeted Hill, Jone and Howard for sure. Butts was the last one so clearly wasn't prioritised as much as the others, hence the reason why the price wasn't great for him as he wasn't this highly sought after FA that people are saying he was.
 
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It's not a blue so much as well played by St Kilda.
Must admit, I have wondered about this.

There was talk connecting Butler and the Saints from a long way out.

By leaving the trade 'til late, our hand was possibly forced.

But I've also wondered... could we not have rookied him if we felt we weren't getting fair value?

Can't help but imagine how good it would be to have Butler in our forward line right now.
 
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Thank god Carlton missed him. Doing this at Carlton could have finished me off!!
 
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I am a big Butler fan. I love someone who is efficient and Dan is ruthlessly efficient. I don't think there is another player in the AFL that can exploit their speed as well (both offensively and defensively). His decision making and composure near goals is stellar. When you see the replay of his goals it's like watching the Flash in slow motion . It all looks so calm and calculated although he's running at 60km an hour. He has turned Saints traditional weakness (goals per inside 50) into a strength. I think the move was great for Dan as he is actually getting recognition he didn't get while at Richmond. He is actually the best small forward in the game ATM (although Rankine will take that mantle soon).

I can understand why we made the decision as we had small forwards up the wazoo but KMac v Dan? or Naish V Dan ? ( No brainers) Maybe if Rance had pulled the in earlier we could have kept him on. The end of his VFL season last year he was kicking the outrageous goals he is now. Check out the last quarter of the Essendon final when we make up an 8 goal deficit. No Dan, no win. He has probably got the Saints an extra 8 to 12 points this season. No way they win yesterday without him. He changed momentum for them on 2 or 3 occassions. Probably three goal of the day contenders amongst his 4.

Rance destroyed us in list management decisions coming into this year.
If we weren't premiers, it wouldn't have been swept under the carpet.
He decided to leave 3 weeks after the final list lodgements and 5 weeks after the draft.

The only good i can see, to come out of seeing Bulter and Ellis doing so well at new clubs is the next group to exit will be held in higher regard towards compensation.
 
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At the end of the day if your lucky enough to have 4 genuine superstars and are adding another , your going to lose players like Butler
 
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I am a big Butler fan. I love someone who is efficient and Dan is ruthlessly efficient. I don't think there is another player in the AFL that can exploit their speed as well (both offensively and defensively). His decision making and composure near goals is stellar. When you see the replay of his goals it's like watching the Flash in slow motion . It all looks so calm and calculated although he's running at 60km an hour. He has turned Saints traditional weakness (goals per inside 50) into a strength. I think the move was great for Dan as he is actually getting recognition he didn't get while at Richmond. He is actually the best small forward in the game ATM (although Rankine will take that mantle soon).

I can understand why we made the decision as we had small forwards up the wazoo but KMac v Dan? or Naish V Dan ? ( No brainers) Maybe if Rance had pulled the in earlier we could have kept him on. The end of his VFL season last year he was kicking the outrageous goals he is now. Check out the last quarter of the Essendon final when we make up an 8 goal deficit. No Dan, no win. He has probably got the Saints an extra 8 to 12 points this season. No way they win yesterday without him. He changed momentum for them on 2 or 3 occassions. Probably three goal of the day contenders amongst his 4.

Have to say I agree with you. I can only claim this in 2nd paragraph of a post on July 8/'19 after spending 1st pgh criticising Dan's form at the time:
' ... we now have SS and Bakes is a rapid developer. I would just hesitate to trade out both Ellis and Butler - keep one for depth? In that case, Ellis is a far more accomplished player although his dreadful efforts in defence make me go spare. Yet Butler is younger - maybe can still improve further. If Ellis wants to take more $$ elsewhere, it's simple - keep him. ' (Tigerdell probably voiced the strongest objection to losing DB last year on this thread at least in late '19).

Looking back, I didn't word it so well, but meaning keep Butler - he's only 23. The club identified and studied him, selected him in the draft as the type we wanted/needed to create the team game we planned. Then we developed him into becoming an excellent contributor as one of the 3 unstoppable amigos creating the '17 flag team. We knew what he is capable of. Yes, he'd lost some form by 2019 or was inconsistent, but that's the nature of life as a SF at AFL level - the Crows cut arguably the best SF of all time. For what gain?

As has been noted by many including Lamb above and myself, Rance's late and odd decision is probably mostly to blame. But I also agree Dan B is the best SF in the game now. He proved it last night and in their Swans defeat where he outplayed Papley in all facets. He's better than ever and has become so deadly, left or right foot, some of his kicks are just brilliant. Trading him at 23, did we think he had peaked and was not much good any more? He also probably suffered due to not having a famous RFC name and family connection tbh. Our club would have had all the medical info on the effect of his ankle injury too. Perhaps should have realised he would need more time to return to his absolute best.

However, I'm trying to accept it. Currently he is a better player IMO than Castagna (who can only dream of kicking this well) and Higgins whose kicks lack penetration I find. But Aarts is tracking well and looks a harder player than DB. But then we have Bolton and Baker, both of whom are still better all-round footballers as they can play mid-forward or back. Doubt Dan could go anywhere else long-term but SF. Our B & B play bigger roles already.

But I don't accept giving him away so cheaply - a star premiership player in the 2017 season has to be valued more. Yer, I get the club culture stuff and I value it, but when it comes to other clubs, it's Darwinian - survival of the fittest. Treat our players respectfully, but don't get bent over!

Yes, worried that Dan will be the difference if we play them again in finals. But still think his weakness is being subjected to close-checking pressure. I think we have just the man that can apply it too - Baker. It will be a great match-up to see if it ever happens. But looks like we have gifted a rival maybe an 8-10 year present that could keep on hurting all that time.
Sorry, rant over.
 
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What game was that brilliant low curling left footer at the G? After that goal I thought geez this bloke has some skill.
 
Must admit, I have wondered about this.

There was talk connecting Butler and the Saints from a long way out.

By leaving the trade 'til late, our hand was possibly forced.

But I've also wondered... could we not have rookied him if we felt we weren't getting fair value?

Can't help but imagine how good it would be to have Butler in our forward line right now.
Dans uncle played a few games for the Saints back in the 80S. There is a connection there!
 
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C'mon Ant, you and I had a friendly tete a tete at trade time and amongst others, I was very clear that we undervalued Butler. Recent posts in this thread demonstrate there are plenty who remain very frustrated at our failure to extract fair value from his trade.

I don't recall that but take your word for it Number 8, link me to the discussion.

As I always say you get what the market will bear. This was a guy who had a good year in 2017 and some of 2018 but in 2019 couldn't make the side and played poorly. Carlton looked at him but didn't want to trade for what we wanted. So we gave him a chance and let him go to St Kilda so he could continue his career as we had to make room on our list. That's the facts. People on here tore strips off the guy every game he played in 2019 and I was one of the few who stood up for him then, but even I had to concede he couldn't stay in the side.

Hindsight is 2020 - I take comfort in the fact that we are still going well without him and I wish Butts all the success he deserves at St Kilda.

I also take comfort in the fact that our trading/rookies etc have been excellent for the past four years and we already have two flags out of it.
 
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But I don't accept giving him away so cheaply - a star premiership player in the 2017 season has to be valued more. Yer, I get the club culture stuff and I value it, but when it comes to other clubs, it's Darwinian - survival of the fittest. Treat our players respectfully, but don't get bent over!

We didn't get bent over in the trade.

Daniel Butler might have played in a premiership for us, and therefore be considered a "premiership hero", but he was no "star" in terms of AFL prowess.

Receiving pick 56 for a fringe player was a fair deal at the time. hindsight is 20-20
 
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I’m kinda the opposite, I don’t have an issue with the trade, but have an issue with the how we managed his last year.

The club has said they will do what they can to aide fringe players movements easily if they need to move on. Hard to extract more value when he barely played and was out of contract. I agree he was worth more than pick 56 to us, but understand the fact other clubs didn’t line up to grab him. His deal was one of the last done in trade week with St Kilda seemingly his only suitor.

I’d rather we say thanks for your service, and move him easily for pick 50 than refuse to trade him and force him into the PSD ala Essendon and Bachar Houli.

halleluyah and Amen.
 
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It's hard to keep an out of contract player who wants to leave, especially if he's not getting a game and his new club is offering to double or triple his pay packet. Butts would have been on minimum chips with us and is probably getting 250-300 with the Saints. And a guaranteed game.

He's making us look stupid. If we still had him he'd be making us look awesome. Ah, well. C'est la vie and good luck to the lad. In three or four years time when we take a spell from winning flags, I hope he kicks an inside-out banana on the left from the third row in the last seconds to beat Collingwood in a grand final.
 
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VFL 2019 Grand Final - Butts 7 tackles, no goals, not listed in the bests
VFL Prelim Final - Butts no goals, not listed in the bests
VFL Qaulifying Final (v Essendon) - 4 goals, Nank the hero
 
Butler’s success will increase the trade value of our next fringe trade.

We’ll likely receive overs for other players now - Richmond’s leftovers could be your next star!
 
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VFL 2019 Grand Final - Butts 7 tackles, no goals, not listed in the bests
VFL Prelim Final - Butts no goals, not listed in the bests
VFL Qaulifying Final (v Essendon) - 4 goals, Nank the hero
He was very good in the VFL grand final:
If he's played his last game for us it was a beauty. He was very good on Sunday.

Butler’s success will increase the trade value of our next fringe trade.

We’ll likely receive overs for other players now - Richmond’s leftovers could be your next star!
This is a possibility for sure.
 
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We didn't get bent over in the trade.

Daniel Butler might have played in a premiership for us, and therefore be considered a "premiership hero", but he was no "star" in terms of AFL prowess.

Receiving pick 56 for a fringe player was a fair deal at the time. hindsight is 20-20

The slant of much of my post was firstly that Dan Butler was/is just 23 and therefore a very young player who had not reached anything like his potential e.g. Chol is just showing AFL abilities now at 23; look at Aarts. Form fluctuates and a smart list manager values a player at their best for the given club, not at some knockdown value. Do you think clubs' trade deals are intended to help rivals with a leg-up in the spirit of kumbaya?

Secondly, I was saying, we were in the best position to know all about his capabilities. Us supporters aren't at every training or VFL game; we don't have his medical info to factor in. But the club has all the expert knowledge.

It's a proven fact: we under-valued him NOW. He's 2nd in the Coleman and kicking sublime goals. Could we use him atm? The Saints have jumped ahead of us on the ladder and in defeating us as well, thanks largely to his performances. Someone posted elsewhere that Saints would only be about 10-12 on the ladder without his input. (forget exactly)

We got it wrong in both respects. Face it. But the Rioli factor, Higgins awful situation, Dan's own form struggles, but most of all, the Rance fiasco is to blame. It was probably unavoidable in that fuller context.
 
I have always been a fan of Butler, and I found myself extremely frustrated last year that free passes were handed to Rioli each week, and Butlers efforts seemingly ignored.

Butler would finally break into the side for a week only to be dropped for Rioli who barely did anything of note with his VFL form. No wonder he’s playing like a man possessed. He’s got a point to prove to our selection committee.

I am firmly of the opinion that Butler did not get a level playing field with us last year, and I’m so stoked to see him given the confidence he needed to perform, instead of warming the bench for Rioli.

Butler played the 1st 3 games of the year (alongside Rioli) and kicked 2 goals. He then played 3 games in a row rds 11, 12 &13.- he kicked 4 goals in those 3 (again alongside Rioli.) he then came back in Rd 20 (again alongside Rioli) and had 8 disposals, and no goals.

Butler is playing great footy, which is good to see, but i would be holding off calling him the best small forward in the game for a little but yet. I wouldnt be surprised if his AFL career is over in a couple of years.