Umpire farce - Getting worse by the minute! | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Umpire farce - Getting worse by the minute!

Bolton gets head ripped off in front of goal. Ball up. Broad gets head ripped off. Play on.
The umps make 2 decisions - was the act a free, what jumper is the player wearing.
Max King gets brushed by his opponent. Free. Bauer and Jack get manhandled and molested. Play on. You can't make this blatant double standards up.
 
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Nank tackles Wilkie who has clear prior in front of goal. Ball up. lol.
 
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We were terrible but these guys weren’t far behind. 7-20 midway through the third. Think it end up 12-23. Half a dozen frees just completely missed for us and everything paid to the saints.
And that's the gripe. Jack Higgins throws it, no free. Get's taken high a moment later - free. Result, Saints goal.

Broad taken high, no free. Result - Saints goal.

King gets slightly impeded twice - often not penalised - he gets the frees. Results - goals.

The umpires were not the difference but they greatly influence games. I don't want to watch the replay, the lack of effort was astonishing, but I reckon there would be 6-10 frees we could have/should have got. Less for them.

We seemingly start half a player down every game.

One player I will highlight is poor Liam Baker. Over the last 3 years he is 48 FF & 90 FA. That is staggering for a small player who is essentially a ball player. I can't think of a player that is more hard done by. Not sure what he has done to deserve such *smile* treatment. I put it down to small man jealousy.
 
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The manipulation of the rules where is suits is dead set comical. I’ve stopped getting mad & started zoning out to it. Been going on for years ever since Balmey got stuck into them.
Maybe they’re waiting for Neil to depart the club??
 
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As usual that changes the AFL makes make it worse. 4 umpires is a joke. The inconsistency is outrageous. You can get the happy free kick giver at one end of the ground, and the pay nothing ump at the other.

We need to put a priority on consistency over getting every decision on the park. If you prioritise consistency your best solution is to get as few decision making umpires as possible and pay those umpires more and weed out all the chaff.

It needs a complete rethink of how the game is officiated.

I'd try and get back to 2 field umpires.

Have a non-field umpire bounce the ball or throw it up (boundary umpires need to do more)
Have non-field umpire police 6-6-6
Have non-field umpire set marks and line players up with goals (this one needs more thought)
Potentially have an 'umpire in the cloud' who can see watch off the ball play and bring it to the attention of the umpire not focused on the play.

Get rid of stuff that distracts the umpire from focusing on infringements and needing to manage short term bureaucracy
- ruck contest nominations - let sides work it out - if they have more than one go up, then a free kick - as i said before if a boundary umpire throws it up, then the decision making umpire can watch the play and not be worried about not getting knocked over and all the other guff
- stand rule and needing to call 'stand', then call 'play on' and also advise if the player is within 5m or not - Remove the stand rule - and just pay 50m for infringing the mark like we used to have or make a 25m rule so it gets called all the time - again if the boundary umpire is setting marks and lining players up then the field umpire can easily see if the player on the mark steps over or someone runs into the protected zone

Get rid of stuff that is completely at the discretion of the umpire and make more black and white rules
- e.g. dissent - just define what dissent is - personal abuse of umpire is, frustration at a decision isn't, asking calmly a question about the decision isn't - workshop this with players to get it right - letting each umpire decide what dissent is is just open to corruption
- holding the ball/too high - define what prior opportunity is - how many times can you be spun around, can you just run into a tackle
- insufficient intent - let's be clear if a forward taking it out is different to a defender taking it out - currently it is and doesn't make sense, - lets be clear if you kick it while being tackled and do a wonky kick is that insufficient intent or not - sometimes it is and sometime it isn't currently
- 15m - put more markings on the ground that show what 15m is to make it very clear if a kick goes 10 then it will be obvious
- define how many seconds a player has until play on

Penalise players strongly for staging so as to help the umpires not to have to solve this
- there was this crackdown on Richmond with Grimes and Rance coming under extreme scrutiny for diving
- haven't seen it since
- Selwood was lauded for his ability to draw high free kicks (in an age of protecting the head he unprotected his head) - double standards? he since doubled down on it in a podcast with Konrad Marshall
- King from the weekend should be going up to the tribunal for flopping over
- Dangerfield the same
- video reviews of all free kicks and strong penalties if players fake getting hit in the head and or just jumping forwards to simulate in the back (Brett Allison can go and get *smile* forever)
- this will end this *smile* quickly
 
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That O'Gorman just hates us. I'd love to see the stats on that guy's Richmond games.

I watched him closely at a ball up in the 3rd quarter near the outer boundary line. The entire time just before throwing it up, he was watching the Richmond players directly. Not a broad focus of who was where and what was going on around him, but staring straight at Nankervis, turning his head to Graham I think it was and then to Prestia. He mouthed a couple of things at our players as well. He had zero focus on anything that any St.Kilda player was doing. Just our guys.

O'Gorman just crushes us every time. (Howorth and Gianfagna as well).
 
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That O'Gorman just hates us. I'd love to see the stats on that guy's Richmond games.

I watched him closely at a ball up in the 3rd quarter near the outer boundary line. The entire time just before throwing it up, he was watching the Richmond players directly. Not a broad focus of who was where and what was going on around him, but staring straight at Nankervis, turning his head to Graham I think it was and then to Prestia. He mouthed a couple of things at our players as well. He had zero focus on anything that any St.Kilda player was doing. Just our guys.

O'Gorman just crushes us every time. (Howorth and Gianfagna as well).
There must be a directive from above to the maggots to keep a close eye on our players. Perhaps there's noise that Richmond players like to bend the rules and play on the edge. No other explanation for the blatant tiggy touchwood ones that almost always go against us and the obvious ones we don't get.
 
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Three umps, two on the ground one on the bench. Each quarter one is subbed off bench one subbed off. The one on the bench would see like everyone else there how many calls are diabolical wrong.
 
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The in the back could have been paid, but guys get away with that a lot. Except when they dont.
The free against Soldo was ridiculous, by that interpretation any ruck who gets between his opponent and the ball is sheperding.
And that's just a microcosm of what we have to put up with week after week. The Soldo free kick is just absurd.
 
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And that's just a microcosm of what we have to put up with week after week. The Soldo free kick is just absurd.
The expectation either seems to be Soldo runs back behind the ball so Marshall can run at it, or he steps out of the way.
Soldo never crossed the centre line, if it wasnt going to be play on the ump should have recalled the bounce.
 
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Three umps, two on the ground one on the bench. Each quarter one is subbed off bench one subbed off. The one on the bench would see like everyone else there how many calls are diabolical wrong.
Games got ridiculously bad with four now.

Inconsistency from game to game poor.

All supporters want is consistency in umpiring but the variations of the adjudication of decisions often leave so frustrated you just become now accustomed to ‘what appears to be , umpired differently to other sides”.


This isn’t new .

Since 2017 .

It’s got to a point where really where we have got to speak up. Make some bloody noise.

We are not whining. This has gone on for 6 years.

Frustration is also written on our players faces and some just smirk now in such disbelief.

The fourth umpire would be so inexperienced and ‘possibly doesn’t voice himself’ in wanting to pay a decision. What’s the point if a senior umpire is right near the action and let’s a free kick pass, what will the less senior umpire do ??… he won’t overrule a decision or reverse it???

3 and the fourth sub.

If it’s an obvious bad call made an umpire ‘upstairs’ should alert the umpire nearest the action and overrule/reverse an obvious decision, especially near the boundary line.

Should be quick but like the ARC technology’ what technology’ it will make a wrong call and could take more time.

Heck Dangerfield wants the quarters shortened as the game is too long as it is now.

Wait till he is on the Commission once he retires.

** we all agree that when you have grey in the rules it’s really a lottery on the day**


*** there are solutions but firstly why does it ‘appear’ that we are umpired differently and it’s been this way for 6 years?”***
 
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"They're human"
"They're human"
"They're human"
"They're human"
"They're human"
"They're human"
"They're human"
"They're human"
"They're human"
"They're human"
 
I think most would agree a lot of the calls the umps make can be called "right", but a big issue is the greyness, and the 2 very similar actions can be called 2 different ways.
I remember you arguing earlier in the year that the dissent that cost Carlton a game was clearly dissent, but then when Cameron was given the mark, the 2 Pies were waving their arms around for hours. Dissent is now never paid. Until it is.

You claim the "deliberate" rule is clear, and that players know what they are doing, then you watch 2 layers kick it out in the same manner and 1 is called.
Sometimes players are called back to the 9mt line when a defender takes a mark, sometimes it is 50 straight away.
Sometimes players are called play on for moving slightly off their line, other times they go metres before any call is made.
Players are held consistently without the ball, sometimes, but rarely it is paid.
PLayers duck into tackles all the time. Sometimes it is too high, sometimes it is holding the ball, sometimes it is a ball up.

A reasonable question is whether the 4th umpire contributes to these inconsistencies, and whether that contribution outweighs the benefit of the extra set of eyes.

I appreciate the civilised tone of your post so I'll respond with the respect it deserves. (y)

On dissent, my view hasn't changed. It's nice and simple and straight forward, if you say or do anything after a decision is made then you run the risk of copping a 50 and are therefore extremely stupid.

I have no problem with the umpires paying it as they see fit. We aren't privy to what is being said on the field so we really don't know if the instances are the same or not. There'a a big difference between waving your arms and saying 'that's *smile* *smile* you stupid cheating *smile*' or waving out your arms and saying 'how was that a free kick?' for example.

To me the standard for players is very clear. Don't do or say anything after the umpire makes a decision and you don't run the risk of giving away 50. How could that be any more simple?

In terms of the rest of your post, the problem I have is like most of the criticism of umpiring, it is generalisations. 'Sometimes, consistently, rarely, all the time' are terms that always come out but they are really nothing terms without actual data and examples of these things. It's all feelings and no facts.

If sometimes means 3 times out of 10 a player is held without the ball and it isn't paid then that is 7 times out of 10 when it is paid. That's pretty good going by anyone's standards but I have a feeling people tend to remember the 3 and forget the 7.

The other thing that you mention, that is a constant, is consistency. Probably the most used term to bag umpiring.

Firstly, consistency doesn't mean errors aren't going to happen. As I've said the long term average of umpires shows the very best will go out about 8 out of 10 correct when they blow the whistle and slightly less when you factor in missed frees.

So your starting point for great umpiring is 2/3 mistakes per every 10 decisions. That's the limit of human capability. So when you say consistency we need to understand we are talking about that as a standard.

The second and most important point about consistency is it is not a consistent game to officiate. It is not tennis where the ball is either in or out. It isn't an LBW appeal where there is a set criteria to tick off in series of yes/nos to determine the correct decision.

It is a game of interpretation and definition. Prior opportunity for example is an opinion. It is a measure of time and space taken without instrumentation in a high pressure environment. Try estimating 3 seconds without using a watch and see how consistent you are and that's before you factor in doing it in the heat of a game environment. If you got within .3 of a second you'd be doing well but 2.7 - 3.3 seconds is a 20% variation already. Pretty hard to be consistent.

And based on that you can have the ball in your hands and not legally dispose of it and it is perfectly fine or you can not legally dispose of it and it is a free kick and the difference is a fraction of a second. Be consistent? Yeah right.

Then you have incidental contact. You can make high contact in a contest and it might be incidental contact or it might be a free kick. Good luck trying to be consistent with that.

Or drawing the line on how much force is used. Is the Broad one above a push in the back, or is it his momentum taking him forward? What if the contact was slightly softer? Then you have to determine if the player exaggerates.


Literally the only consistency you can ask for in those minefield is for the umpire to look at it and make a decision based on what they see each time. Of course someone else sitting watching in the stands or on TV might see it completely differently and very often they are both right. Trying umpiring a game of tennis when the same ball can be both in and out simultaneously and see how much consistency there is.

Truth is consistency is an easy whack at umpires because in AFL it is unattainable. The rule don't allow it and until we reach the point where the same robot is umpiring every single game they never will. To seek it as a fan is just condemning yourself to frustration.

It is a beautifully imperfect game with beautifully imperfect rules and the best way to enjoy it is to remember that.
 
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I watch every game of AFL and VFL
Umpiring is terrible at both levels although the Umpires Dept under Dan and Lisa will say that they have an efficiency of 97 % and do knowledge errors
I disagree with that.

It's audited every year by Deakin Uni and published in a sports medicine journal. Nothing to do with the AFL.
 
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