Umpire farce - Getting worse by the minute!

[The Big Richo]

That’s the refuters point - don’t say anything. Completely remove any emotion out of that part of the game. None. 40 or 50 times a game don’t say a word despite the fact several decisions are subjective, are mistakes or are influenced by umps personal bias. Just shut up and wear it.

The fact that people consider the idea that grown men and professional athletes should show good sportsmanship and accept umpire's decisions without question be ridiculous sums up the issues with the culture of football I think.

Abuse

Abuse is
* yelling at the umpire
* swearing at the umpire
* waving your arms at the umpire
* arguing with the umpire
and then things like
* kicking or throwing the ball away in disgust
* refusing to give the ball back etc

What is not abuse is
* asking why that is a free verbally
* asking why that is a free with your arms or body language

So if I yell out and ask why was that a free kick is that abuse or not?

If I wave my arms while I ask if it's a free kick is that abuse?

If I ask why it was a free kick and the umpire answers and then I ask about that am I arguing?

How do we define a swear word? Can I say 'crap' or is that 50 metres?

Seems to me you are making something very subjective and open to interpretation while asking for more consistency. I would argue the current system is much more simple and easy for everyone to know exactly where they stand.

Using teacher violence against kids to explain why umpires are always right?

There is a difference between anbusw and what Coniglio did in most people’s opinion.

My point is about the now non-existent respect for authority. Whatever happened to the man in white is always right?

And I think you just summed up the issue there. 'Most people's opinion'. What about the people in the minority?

Abuse and offence is a subjective matter which is why the only safe policy is never question a decision. If you do you run the risk of offending someone who will penalise you.

 

[Rfc4Ever]

Those umps were clearly pro-Carlton.

That 50 against Ziebell summed it up.

 

[TigerForce]

Agree.

Thanks. Just proving my point.

 

[King Kong]

4 umpires has just invited another 9 clueless maggots onto the field each week. It was always going to make things worse not better.

 

[Willo]

These current umpires are an abuse to our game. They can gagf .

 

[year of the tiger]

The fact that people consider the idea that grown men and professional athletes should show good sportsmanship and accept umpire's decisions without question be ridiculous sums up the issues with the culture of football I think.





So if I yell out and ask why was that a free kick is that abuse or not?

If I wave my arms while I ask if it's a free kick is that abuse?

If I ask why it was a free kick and the umpire answers and then I ask about that am I arguing?

How do we define a swear word? Can I say 'crap' or is that 50 metres?

Seems to me you are making something very subjective and open to interpretation while asking for more consistency. I would argue the current system is much more simple and easy for everyone to know exactly where they stand.



My point is about the now non-existent respect for authority. Whatever happened to the man in white is always right?

And I think you just summed up the issue there. 'Most people's opinion'. What about the people in the minority?

Abuse and offence is a subjective matter which is why the only safe policy is never question a decision. If you do you run the risk of offending someone who will penalise you.

I actually don’t think it’s that subjective.

Your points 1 and 2 and 3 are abuse imo and I think your being a bit pedantic re defining a swear word.

I used to play and umpire hockey which has had a successful no tolerance approach to umps and have done so for 30 years or more. If you respectfully ask a question, either verbally or non verbally, that is tolerated and you will get an answer, but other than that or if you further question a decision or explanation you can be warned, reverse the free and/or card the player.

Again I reckon it’s pretty straight forward

 

[Sintiger]

The fact that people consider the idea that grown men and professional athletes should show good sportsmanship and accept umpire's decisions without question be ridiculous sums up the issues with the culture of football I think.





So if I yell out and ask why was that a free kick is that abuse or not?

If I wave my arms while I ask if it's a free kick is that abuse?

If I ask why it was a free kick and the umpire answers and then I ask about that am I arguing?

How do we define a swear word? Can I say 'crap' or is that 50 metres?

Seems to me you are making something very subjective and open to interpretation while asking for more consistency. I would argue the current system is much more simple and easy for everyone to know exactly where they stand.



My point is about the now non-existent respect for authority. Whatever happened to the man in white is always right?

And I think you just summed up the issue there. 'Most people's opinion'. What about the people in the minority?

Abuse and offence is a subjective matter which is why the only safe policy is never question a decision. If you do you run the risk of offending someone who will penalise you.

I answered too quickly

I already said earlier in this thread that I liked the method used in rugby Union.

Straight out abuse is not tolerated but the referee talks to the players and warns them if they are disputing calls too much, then speaks with the captain if it continues and then starts handing out the penalties. You see very little abuse in Union and a very respectful relationship between officials and players.

It’s a very mature and mutually respectful way of doing it which recognises the passion of the game as well as the role of the officials

 

[RoarEmotion]

Abuse and offence is a subjective matter which is why the only safe policy is never question a decision. If you do you run the risk of offending someone who will penalise you.

Can’t argue with that.

This doesn’t mean the umpire is wrong in where s/he is drawing a line and that the umpire may need some coaching and feedback on how to handle players and make the game better too. This is huge at any level IMO in that an umpire’s EQ and how they interact with players can have a huge influence on whether a game turns spiteful or not. If in 980 decisions umpires don’t call it and 1 umpire does once out of 20 similar events that’s an umpiring error for me. But yes if the player did nothing and despite 999 others doing it then the free would not be paid. That’s my point in that this is much more an umpire issue than a player behavioral issue.

It also wouldn’t hurt to draw some very clear parameters around what is always ok and always not ok as has been done in another post and then rely a bit on judgement for all the stuff in the middle.

I actually thought in 17/18 we were really good in this space. Just got on with it no matter what. We’ve definitely slipped big time in the last few years with 50m penalties for the same lack of player control.

 

[snags]

So, they’re not paying all the frees? There’s an easy solution for that. Let’s have another umpire. That’ll work.

It'll be the "feelings canary" umpire. Their only job is to calibrate the level of dissent acceptable across a match. Then there'll be push in the back ump. Simulation ump. He ran too far ump. 15m kick validation ump amongst others. Eddie better extend his bunker they can sit with the virtual goal umps.

 

[snags]

It'll be the "feelings canary" umpire. Their only job is to calibrate the level of dissent acceptable across a match. Then there'll be push in the back ump. Simulation ump. He ran too far ump. 15m kick validation ump amongst others. Eddie better extend his bunker they can sit with the virtual goal umps.

Actually I *smile* you not; why not build an AI model for all these scenarios and have it make decisions in real time into the ump's earpiece. How do I delete a message before someone steals my idea? I have a proposition for Gill! I've lost interest already...

 

[gold1]

Just wish they would ping players for throwing the ball as this is becoming a serious blight on our game.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Naughton & Jamarra to get all the free kicks Lynch & Ryan don't.

 

[Redford]

Naughton & Jamarra to get all the free kicks Lynch & Ryan don't.

O’Gorman absolutely smashes us. Deboy not far behind him. Expecting Heffernan to rise to the occasion as well.

 

[The Big Richo]

I actually don’t think it’s that subjective.

It's massively subjective.

You said it was ok to ask why it was a free kick but yelling is abuse. So who is going to be the arbiter of what decibel rating your voice has to reach before asking becomes yelling?

What if there is a big crowd and it is noisy so the player has to yell to be heard? Is that abuse?

You said you can move your arms to ask about a free but not wave them. How many degrees of movement separates the two?

I'm absolutely being pedantic here but that is what goes on in every analysis of every decision umpires make. The nuances count.

It is impossible to define what is acceptable and what isn't and it is always going to come down to the eye of the beholder. Which is why the only safe option for a player is never engage.

 

[Stackey]

It's massively subjective.
You said it was ok to ask why it was a free kick but yelling is abuse. So who is going to be the arbiter of what decibel rating your voice has to reach before asking becomes yelling?
What if there is a big crowd and it is noisy so the player has to yell to be heard? Is that abuse?

You said you can move your arms to ask about a free but not wave them. How many degrees of movement separates the two?

I'm absolutely being pedantic here but that is what goes on in every analysis of every decision umpires make. The nuances count.

It is impossible to define what is acceptable and what isn't and it is always going to come down to the eye of the beholder. Which is why the only safe option for a player is never engage.

Get up close and personable and whisper gently in their ear...sotto voce...WTF was that for?!?!

 

[momentai]

Dan Richardson stated words to the effect that S Coniglio had gone very close to dissent on earlier occasions.
One of the programmes showed such an incident involving the same umpire talking to the player after he had questioned the decision with arm’s extended.

The first incident could only have told the player that that same level of dissent was acceptable to that umpire.

Not surprisingly when the final qr incident occurred the player thought he was ok.
However the umpire decided to make a point because he was unhappy with his first decision.

In doing so he cost GWS any chance of success.

 

[Rantnrave]

It's massively subjective.

You said it was ok to ask why it was a free kick but yelling is abuse. So who is going to be the arbiter of what decibel rating your voice has to reach before asking becomes yelling?

What if there is a big crowd and it is noisy so the player has to yell to be heard? Is that abuse?

You said you can move your arms to ask about a free but not wave them. How many degrees of movement separates the two?

I'm absolutely being pedantic here but that is what goes on in every analysis of every decision umpires make. The nuances count.

It is impossible to define what is acceptable and what isn't and it is always going to come down to the eye of the beholder. Which is why the only safe option for a player is never engage.

Should be so simple
Swearing and name calling is abuse

Appealing for a free or asking why what did i do is NOT ABUSE...its just so simple yet the clowns at afl headquaters have completly confused and outraged the entire footy world by complicating it....utter madness isnt it ?

 

[Legends of 2017]

Should be so simple
Swearing and name calling is abuse

Appealing for a free or asking why what did i do is NOT ABUSE...its just so simple yet the clowns at afl headquaters have completly confused and outraged the entire footy world by complicating it....utter madness isnt it ?

Notice how the wording from the afl has changed. It’s gone from umpire abuse to dissent. I think even the afl woke up to the fact that having your arms outstretched can’t be seriously labeled abuse.
I think the next step the afl will take is to remove the wording dissent to “ questioning”

 

[RoarEmotion]

Yep so just make it you cant talk to the umpires if they are going to be that precious. The unintended consequence of them over-protecting umpires is actually doing the opposite and opening them up for ridicule vs making them human and fallible and looking to improve (which is a much better message).

 

[Merveille]

They can eff right off..!