The case for a KPP draft pick

[SAF]

Hi Everyone,

Been a member/reader on here for ages but never post.

I was doing my annual list analysis today and released that we will most likely delist the following KPP players:
Simmonds
Polak
Schulz
Hughes
Pattison
There is also Bowden who played KPP at times as well (although undersized for this role).

From a list balance point view it is a lot of KPPs to lose in one year. Personally I think we were already short of KPPs and need more depth in the ruck as well. Richo will most likely go at the end of next year as well (and could have little impact on the team next year if injuries catch up with him).

There is no way we will be able to recruit enough quaility KPPs to replace these players in this year's draft and trade, so it would seem to me we should be targetting KPP in the draft for the next couple of years (similar to what Hawthorn did in 04/05) and hope that our midfield stocks are enough or hope we can pull out a good mid from later in the draft such as Collins.

 

[Tango]

SAF - you wont be welcome on here if you keep posting sensible posts like that one :hihi
just joking

good first up post and i agree with you which makes me think butcher is a certainty with our first pick unless dees take him which may happen if they want a quality mid and a KPP fwd

welcome to pre SAF

 

[ParisAmos]

Too many all at once, keep Simmons Polak and Hughes. Simmons good back up, Polak needs another year and Hughes need a kick up the bum.

Dump JON, McMuff, King, Shulz, Patterson, (Putt???) , maybe Thomson and Hislop

Plus with Bowden and Johson leaving that might be enougth for this year.

Also keep Brown,and Cogs less cash but still keep them.

 

[Tygrys]

This is why I hope Butcher will still be available when our pick 3 (again I hope) is used.

 

[Tigerdog]

Too many all at once, keep Simmons Polak and Hughes. Simmons good back up, Polak needs another year and Hughes need a kick up the bum.

Dump JON, McMuff, King, Shulz, Patterson, (Putt???) , maybe Thomson and Hislop

Plus with Bowden and Johson leaving that might be enougth for this year.

Also keep Brown,and Cogs less cash but still keep them.

Schulz,McMahon,Thomson,Hislop and King are all contracted. That's a lot of money to pay out for nothing.
At minimum Thomson and Hislop will get another year. The rest you can trade for whatever you can get but don't be surprised if that is either not much, or nothing.

 

[davidrodan]

I don't mind if we use our 1st rounder on Butcher as long as we think he is the best available

If a mid is best the pick him

Best available with first pick, only use list needs if there is equal talent

 

[lamb22]

Too many all at once, keep Simmons Polak and Hughes. Simmons good back up, Polak needs another year and Hughes need a kick up the bum.

Dump JON, McMuff, King, Shulz, Patterson, (Putt???) , maybe Thomson and Hislop

Plus with Bowden and Johson leaving that might be enougth for this year.

Also keep Brown,and Cogs less cash but still keep them.

Your'e kidding right? Keep the 31 year olds in Simmonds and Brown and Cleve who hasn't had a kick in 4 years and get rid of the 20 year old Putt and 21 year old Thommo and Hislop

 

[the claw]

I don't mind if we use our 1st rounder on Butcher as long as we think he is the best available

If a mid is best the pick him

Best available with first pick, only use list needs if there is equal talent

here here never stuff around with your first rounder certainly not a top 5 pick. best available no matter how bad areas of the list are. if butchers rated the best available at 3 and i dont think he is imo so be it.

 

[Ripplestick]

Some one in the know please put my fears to rest.... is Butcher the second coming of the laconic, underperforming Jay Schulz?

 

[peggles]

Too many all at once, keep Simmons Polak and Hughes. Simmons good back up, Polak needs another year and Hughes need a kick up the bum.

Dump JON, McMuff, King, Shulz, Patterson, (Putt???) , maybe Thomson and Hislop

Plus with Bowden and Johson leaving that might be enougth for this year.

Also keep Brown,and Cogs less cash but still keep them.

simmonds is back up for what?? we're in for a rebuilding year next year, no way should we be playing someone like simmonds. gone.

 

[Gunsmoke]

Looking at highlights of Morabito and Trengove (all I have to go on) and having seen Butcher, in order I would take Trengove, Butcher and then Morabito. Obviously if Scully happened to fall to 3 (through a complete brain fade at Melbourne) we would take him.

 

[BBC]

Good first post SAF.

From a list perspective it's Butcher that we need. Too many of our talls are underwhelming and should be delisted given they have no trade value.

Our first pick always should be on best available as this is where a team's future champions come from. Our future is built around Deledio, Tambling, Cotchin, Riewoldt and Vickery, all of them are first round picks.

I think it will be Trengove or Butcher. Consensus seems to be Trengove is better.

Remember Hardwick comes from Hawthorn who prioritized two bigs in Roughead and Franklin in 2004. They have gone all right.

 

[ParisAmos]

So how many players can be cut in one year?

 

[keepa lids onit]

agree we go butcher. i think he is talented enough to be taken over a moribito. trengove, apparently is pretty good so not sure about it, but we definately need KP. imagine we pass him up for trengove. both butcher and trengove become very good players. who will be more valuable? id take a very good FF, over a very good mid anyday of the week. rather 5 goals a game than 30 possessions a game....

 

[pahoffm]

Always a compelling case to take the tall.

As we know, elite talls go very quickly in the draft.

Recent elite talls such as Roughead, Franklin, Ryder, Clark, Kennedy, Dowler, Hansen, Gumbleton, Kreuser, N.Brown, Frawley, Everitt, Natanui & Vickery have all gone early in the draft. A few of these much earlier than expected.
Why?
Because they're elite talls.

Over the years, we've debated Ottens v Johnstone, Fiora v Pavlich, Tambling v Franklin.

In the case of Ottens v Johnstone, even though Johnstone has had a 10+ year career, no one has criticised the RFC for taking Ottens.

This year presents a number of genuine talls, both forward & back, not all are elite.

Genuine Talls:

Name	Ht	Rating	State	Type
Griffiths	198	A	VM/ER	F
Lawton	197	B	NSW	D
Talia	195	B	VM/CC	D
Carlisle	196	B	VM/CC	D
Williams	196	B	NSW	D
Houghton	195	B	WA	F
Emery	196	B	NSW	F
Butcher	197	B	VC/GP	F
Craig	195	B	SA	U
Archer	195	C	Tas	F
Groenewegen	196	C	Tas	F
McDonald	195	C	ER	F
Casboult	196	C D	DS	F

In the end, it becomes a matter of who we want, then expect him to go much earlier.

 

[Smoking Aces]

Always a compelling case to take the tall.

As we know, elite talls go very quickly in the draft.

Recent elite talls such as Roughead, Franklin, Ryder, Clark, Kennedy, Dowler, Hansen, Gumbleton, Kreuser, N.Brown, Frawley, Everitt, Natanui & Vickery have all gone early in the draft. A few of these much earlier than expected.
Why?
Because they're elite talls.

Over the years, we've debated Ottens v Johnstone, Fiora v Pavlich, Tambling v Franklin.

In the case of Ottens v Johnstone, even though Johnstone has had a 10+ year career, no one has criticised the RFC for taking Ottens.

This year presents a number of genuine talls, both forward & back, not all are elite.

Genuine Talls:

Name	Ht	Rating	State	Type
Griffiths	198	A	VM/ER	F
Lawton	197	B	NSW	D
Talia	195	B	VM/CC	D
Carlisle	196	B	VM/CC	D
Williams	196	B	NSW	D
Houghton	195	B	WA	F
Emery	196	B	NSW	F
Butcher	197	B	VC/GP	F
Craig	195	B	SA	U
Archer	195	C	Tas	F
Groenewegen	196	C	Tas	F
McDonald	195	C	ER	F
Casboult	196	C D	DS	F

In the end, it becomes a matter of who we want, then expect him to go much earlier.

I see that Butcher has still not made your A class category. I assume you might be a touch unhappy if we use Pick 3 on him. What are the chances of Grifiths lasting to our 2nd pick if we happen to choose Morabito or Trengove with our 1st pick.
Phantom, our list is crying out for another genuine KPP. I hate to think what the consequneces will be for our future success if we miss out on a very good tall in this draft. They will be even harder to find once Gold Coast and West Sydney join the comp.

 

[tbartiger]

I mentioned it on one of the junior threads that we have a 350 odd page thread on Tambo, mainly comparisons to Franklin. Do we want another one in 5 years time? Would hate to watch a KPP kicking five goals a game while our mid gets 20 possies a week.

If a big bloke, most likely Butcher is the best or equal best available at 3, take him.

 

[IanG]

I see that Butcher has still not made your A class category. I assume you might be a touch unhappy if we use Pick 3 on him. What are the chances of Grifiths lasting to our 2nd pick if we happen to choose Morabito or Trengove with our 1st pick.
Phantom, our list is crying out for another genuine KPP. I hate to think what the consequneces will be for our future success if we miss out on a very good tall in this draft. They will be even harder to find once Gold Coast and West Sydney join the comp.

The main knock on Butcher is his kicking but it really isn't too bad. Butcher is definitely an A grader IMHO, even as a 16 year old last year he stood out in the U18 National Championships. If Melbourne take 2 mids with their first 2 picks there's no way we can expect Butcher, Talia or Griffiths to last until our second round pick. We have to get our structure right this year without fail.

 

[Rfc4Ever]

And herein lies the conundrum...wouldn't it be nice to have 2 picks in the top 5??
I say take the best overall player available with our first pick and look at a trade or 2 to try and obtain another 1st rounder which we take the best KPP available.

And the question begs...who do we trade for another first round pick??

 

[Herr_Tiger]

please not Butcher .. at least his name is synonymous with his kicking

Panos as a tall forward with our R2 if Tapscott is not there

Temel as another tall forward with our R4