Terrorist attacks in Paris

[Rosy]

Its in the video and OK its not certain that Daesh didn't fund the attacks but the way they work is to take credit for actions performed by others.

So you quoted me to post at worst a false claim, and at best your personal opinion, rather than Waleed actually said about ISIL?

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Its in the video and OK its not certain that Daesh didn't fund the attacks but the way they work is to take credit for actions performed by others.

I'd prefer ISIS/ISIL/Daesh to be responsible. The prospect of multiple Islamic groups waging war on the West is even more frightening.

 

[Giardiasis]

Sadly, the more these attacks occur, the more nationalism will gain favour. Most Western people are against their Government's military intervention in the Middle East (so much for democracy!) however these attacks breed hatred and warmongers. Once the nationalists gain enough support, it will become apparent that it is wrong to think that radical islamists have a monopoly on barbarity.

The solution to this problem can not start from the basis of "us and them". We need to acknowledge that western military intervention has only made the problem worse. More of the same is insane. First completely withdraw all military forces in the Middle East, and focus defence spending on border control. Next cut all foreign aid, cut welfare for immigrants, and cut all economic sanctions on foreign nations. We need to strengthen freedom of speech so that we can properly criticise the backwardness of wahhabism such as its brutal treatment of women, gays and those that speak against it. Only through a dedication to the principles of freedom and liberty can western countries gain the respect of moderate Islam, which is paramount to sending radical Islam into irrelevance.

 

[billyb#40]

Sadly, the more these attacks occur, the more nationalism will gain favour. Most Western people are against their Government's military intervention in the Middle East (so much for democracy!) however these attacks breed hatred and warmongers. Once the nationalists gain enough support, it will become apparent that it is wrong to think that radical islamists have a monopoly on barbarity.

The solution to this problem can not start from the basis of "us and them". We need to acknowledge that western military intervention has only made the problem worse. More of the same is insane. First completely withdraw all military forces in the Middle East, and focus defence spending on border control. Next cut all foreign aid, cut welfare for immigrants, and cut all economic sanctions on foreign nations. We need to strengthen freedom of speech so that we can properly criticise the backwardness of wahhabism such as its brutal treatment of women, gays and those that speak against it. Only through a dedication to the principles of freedom and liberty can western countries gain the respect of moderate Islam, which is paramount to sending radical Islam into irrelevance.

No, leaving them to sort it out amongst themselves, the other side of "the border", is not going to be the answer.

 

[mrposhman]

Sadly, the more these attacks occur, the more nationalism will gain favour. Most Western people are against their Government's military intervention in the Middle East (so much for democracy!) however these attacks breed hatred and warmongers. Once the nationalists gain enough support, it will become apparent that it is wrong to think that radical islamists have a monopoly on barbarity.

The solution to this problem can not start from the basis of "us and them". We need to acknowledge that western military intervention has only made the problem worse. More of the same is insane. First completely withdraw all military forces in the Middle East, and focus defence spending on border control. Next cut all foreign aid, cut welfare for immigrants, and cut all economic sanctions on foreign nations. We need to strengthen freedom of speech so that we can properly criticise the backwardness of wahhabism such as its brutal treatment of women, gays and those that speak against it. Only through a dedication to the principles of freedom and liberty can western countries gain the respect of moderate Islam, which is paramount to sending radical Islam into irrelevance.

Worst thing that we could do.

Daesh gained power throughout Syria when we supported the uprising against Assad (sure I can see the irony here) but the reason they gained strength was we had no real plan. Our plan was to fund what we termed "rebels". We had no idea who they were or what would occur. As Syria became more and more lawless the strongest inevitably take control and unfortunate;y this was Daesh. Western intervention in Syria was a debacle (largely because of Russian and Chinese support for Assad). They have used Syria to gain a foothold in Iraq and largely took advantage of a disorganised army. I am of the belief that with Western support, Iraq could eradicate Daesh from Iraq but Syria is the big problem. With not one dominant force in Syria there is no-one to back.

We have *smile* this up, but to walk away in total would fuel the fire and we only add more strength to Daesh.

 

[Giardiasis]

No, leaving them to sort it out amongst themselves, the other side of "the border", is not going to be the answer.

You can't force people through violence to accept liberty.

 

[Brodders17]

When was the most recent one?

cant give Christian specific figures but 80% of terrorist deaths in Western countries in 2014 were not due to Islamic fundamentalism.
not surprisingly the number of deaths from terrorist attack correlates with the number of refugees fleeing a country.

http://www.visionofhumanity.org/sites/default/files/English%20Media%20Release%20GTI%202015.pdf

 

[jb03]

cant give Christian specific figures but 80% of terrorist deaths in Western countries in 2014 were not due to Islamic fundamentalism.
not surprisingly the number of deaths from terrorist attack correlates with the number of refugees fleeing a country.

http://www.visionofhumanity.org/sites/default/files/English%20Media%20Release%20GTI%202015.pdf

has there ever been terrorist acts or mass killings in the name of atheism?

 

[Brodders17]

has there ever been terrorist acts or mass killings in the name of atheism?

probably not. atheism doesnt tend to build the same fanaticism or devotion as religions.

 

[Ian4]

while no atheist has ever committed a terrorist act and almost certainly never will (despite what southpark days), we probably should be more fanatical when you consider what religion has done to the world.

 

[Baloo]

while no atheist has ever committed a terrorist act and almost certainly never will (despite what southpark days), we probably should be more fanatical when you consider what religion has done to the world.

hang on. No atheist has committed an terrorist act in the name of atheism might be a true statement, but you can never know the religious beliefs, or lack there of, of terrorist acts by non religous terrorist groups.

 

[Coburgtiger]

has there ever been terrorist acts or mass killings in the name of atheism?

You're getting your cause and effect backwards. Atheists are generally rational, and less likely to get involved in the extremely emotive/irrational nature of terrorism.

People who are irrational are more likely to be religious. And also more likely to do something as irrational as terrorism.

It's a personality trait that leads someone to devotion to a cause irrespective of logic. Being suicidally devoted to a blind faith in a terrorist cause is just the extreme end of a scale. Lower on that scale is being blindly devoted to a religious faith. Both are faith outside of evidence and inherently irrational.

It makes sense that if you tick off the extreme end of the scale, you will also have the lower end covered.

The question is whether we judge someone for being irrational. The answer is no. We judge them for their actions. When their irrationality leads to violence, that is/should be condemned. When it leads to harmless religion, we afford them the respect of their understanding of the world, and move on.

 

[Baloo]

You're getting your cause and effect backwards. Atheists are generally rational, and less likely to get involved in the extremely emotive/irrational nature of terrorism.

People who are irrational are more likely to be religious. And also more likely to do something as irrational as terrorism.

It's a personality trait that leads someone to devotion to a cause irrespective of logic. Being suicidally devoted to a blind faith in a terrorist cause is just the extreme end of a scale. Lower on that scale is being blindly devoted to a religious faith. Both are faith outside of evidence and inherently irrational.

It makes sense that if you tick off the extreme end of the scale, you will also have the lower end covered.

The question is whether we judge someone for being irrational. The answer is no. We judge them for their actions. When your irrationality leads to violence, that is/should be condemned. When it leads to harmless religion, we afford them the respect of their understanding of the world, and move on.

ETA and the Red brigade say Hi. There are also a few communist terrorist groups floating around. They by definition would be atheists.

 

[Coburgtiger]

ETA and the Red brigade say Hi. There are also a few communist terrorist groups floating around. They by definition would be atheists.

True.

Disregard my comments as useless pondering.

 

[Baloo]

True.

Disregard my comments as useless pondering.

Religious terrorist are definitely the majority, but there is a fair few on the official UN List today that aren't religious.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

A decent summary.

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/the-reluctance-to-blame-islamic-state-alone-for-paris-terror-attacks-plays-into-their-hands-20151116-gl0d0o.html

The Muslim world today stands divided on whether groups like al-Qaeda, Islamic State, the Taliban and many more represent a threat to Islam or to the West – hence resulting in reluctant condemnations arguing that such groups don't represent Islam... With each terrorist attack the convergence of Islamist radical ideology with that of an average Muslim is growing... The Islamist organisations thoroughly understand that they do not carry popular support of Muslims, but they do also realise that they don't carry popular resistance from the majority of Muslims either.

Some good contributions from readers also.

 

[Sintiger]

cant give Christian specific figures but 80% of terrorist deaths in Western countries in 2014 were not due to Islamic fundamentalism.
not surprisingly the number of deaths from terrorist attack correlates with the number of refugees fleeing a country.

http://www.visionofhumanity.org/sites/default/files/English%20Media%20Release%20GTI%202015.pdf

Interestingly I saw recently that the Economist magazine published data that 750,000 people processed as genuine refugees have settled in the US since 9/11. The total number of those 750,000 arrested for terrorist acts since that time is zero.

I guess what that means is that the refugees themselves are not the problem.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Interestingly I saw recently that the Economist magazine published data that 750,000 people processed as genuine refugees have settled in the US since 9/11. The total number of those 750,000 arrested for terrorist acts since that time is zero.

I guess what that means is that the refugees themselves are not the problem.

Suggests the US chooses very, very carefully who they let in. Do you have figures for France?

 

[Rosy]

It seems the world is an angry place lately. Road rage. Supermarket queue rage. Differing opinions rage. Has anyone else noticed how bitter and nasty PRE can be lately. Bullying, insults, egos at 10 paces. Life is too short for the bitterness and carnage.

 

[Coburgtiger]

Interestingly I saw recently that the Economist magazine published data that 750,000 people processed as genuine refugees have settled in the US since 9/11. The total number of those 750,000 arrested for terrorist acts since that time is zero.

I guess what that means is that the refugees themselves are not the problem.

Of course refugees aren't responsible for terrorism. They're literally risking their lives to get away from it.

You'd have to be a complete idiot to suggest otherwise.