Tambling (merged)

[the claw]

Re: Tambling must pick 1

in hindsight i would have taken franklin with pick 4 the only thing that stopped me from wanting him at that pick was his percieved poor attitude but with 5 top 20 picks the risk was worth taking.if the draft had panned out as everyone expected roughhead was a shoein at 4.

Why on earth would you take Frankilin over Tambling? Franklin is not even a KPP!!

i really would like to hear your reasons why franklin wont make an exceptional kpp.as far as i can see he could turn out to be anything even the best pick of the 04 draft.it really does amaze me when people come out with ridiculous statements like the above just because we didnt draft him.

Most people have said that Buddy is a despised 'third tall'. He isn't a particularly good mark, but is reasonably quick and mobile. Roughhead is clearly KPP material. Buddy will make a KPP fill in of the same type as Hall (albeit classier). We already have plenty (from your own mouth Claw) of third talls.

In fact if you compare Franklins and Tamblings 2005 stats, Franklin's are only marginally better on a per game basis. Hardly star quality, which is what came out of the rising star award. Buddy got very few (if any ) votes from the judges. We got and require Tambling on the basis of our midfield being in a poor state. Lacking in speed and class of which Tambling has shown both.

I agree Tambling did not show us lots of what he could do last season. If you ask me the jury is out on both players.

Also, personally I dont like Franklin, and wouldn't want him at RFC. Every time I see him play the word 'ponce' comes into my head. I don't think he has the heart to fulfill his potential. His poor attitude and arrogance is written all over his face.

it takes most talls 3 to 5 yrs to become good players at top level regardless of where they are picked with most smalls about 2 yrs depending on for want of a better way of saying it how skinny they are.
franklin is skinny tall quick can jump has good skills and for where his physical development is at a good mark.to expect him to play kp in his first yr yet alone even his third is asking way to much imo.
tamblig is a very skinny fast skillful small and to expect him to dominate games over the next 2 or 3 seasons again is asking to much he has an awful lot of work to do in the gym.both look to be players of the future, who will turn out to be the more valuable well my money is on franklin.
as for poor attitude i ask what poor attitude hes a 197 88kg kid who managed to play most games in his first season with an upside that is enormous.if he shows arrogance well even better.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Re: Tambling must pick 1

it takes most talls 3 to 5 yrs to become good players at top level regardless of where they are picked as for poor attitude i ask what poor attitude hes a 197 88kg kid who managed to play most games in his first season with an upside that is enormous.if he shows arrogance well even better.

This is exactly why I don't understand the criticism of Jay Schulz :

 

[the claw]

Re: Tambling must pick 1

it takes most talls 3 to 5 yrs to become good players at top level regardless of where they are picked as for poor attitude i ask what poor attitude hes a 197 88kg kid who managed to play most games in his first season with an upside that is enormous.if he shows arrogance well even better.

This is exactly why I don't understand the criticism of Jay Schulz :

franklin and schulz are chalk and cheese. schulz is an opinion based on looking at kids play footy over the yrs.imo hes slow doesnt have a footy brain has ordinary skills and is lazy.boy richmond ferals have the gall to bag a first yr players attitude in franklin and ignore schulz.the other concern with schulz is he has shown no steady improvement and the gap between his good and bad has not decreased in 3 yrs. and lastly imo he neve looked the goods as a kid and i was bewildered we took him at 12 in 2002 if you dont rate em you dont rate em .having said this i have never really bagged him except to say i have doubts about him being good enough to make the grade and have never had those doubts eased.i have also said we need to perservere with him and give him the chance to prove himself.but i have to say if there is no marked improvement and the gap between his best and worst doesnt narrow and lets face it his best hasnt been to crash hot either he will be skating on very thin ice.

 

[Gazza68]

Re: Tambling must pick 1

A couple of good posts there Claw, would tend to agree with your opinion on Schulz.
Would like to see Schulz step up this season, show us what the previous selection group saw in him. Apart from a good performance against Brisbane a couple of seasons back, a half decent game against the Cats last season, really has'nt shown any consistency to get really excited about.

 

[Djevv]

Re: Tambling must pick 1

Look if I was a Hawk supporter, I would agree with you, Franklin had a good first season.

As a sceptic: Why did he receive no votes apart from the nomination in the Rising star award? Surely the judges know it takes longer for talls to make it.

Where is his improvement going to come from? He is already listed at 90Kg and should probably play at 95Kg (Riewolts weight). Too much more than this and he will lose his pace (his main asset).

He is not a good mark - he barely gets more of the ball than Tambling in this way. His contested marks are average. You can't learn this it is a skill you either have it or dont.

On the field his natural game is as a running player get gets lots of uncontested possessions, he likes to run and bounce. If he takes a mark it is wide to the wings on the lead. He doesn't win his own ball, he is a receiver.

Ok, a first year player, but as a high ranked youngster he was expected to be AFL ready, and he is. What of it. Statistically he is nowhere near his media 'star' rating. I think he reads his own press from the petulant look on his face and I think you do too!

To me he is a mobile ruckman come forward in the Ottens mold.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Re: Tambling must pick 1

having said this i have never really bagged him except to say i have doubts about him being good enough to make the grade and have never had those doubts eased.i have also said we need to perservere with him and give him the chance to prove himself.but i have to say if there is no marked improvement and the gap between his best and worst doesnt narrow and lets face it his best hasnt been to crash hot either he will be skating on very thin ice.

Sounds like you're having a bob each way there Claw, which is fair enough I suppose. big year for Sarge.

 

[the claw]

Re: Tambling must pick 1

Sounds like you're having a bob each way there Claw, which is fair enough I suppose. big year for Sarge.

not really i have stated i dont think hes good enough and i stand by that assesment hope im wrong. as most ferals keep asking who am i to pass judgement. and they trust others who should know better, ive been prepared to give schulz and every kid that has come to the club plenty of time to prove themselves.unless its blatantly obvious they are duds.having said this this is the last yr im prepared to give schulz if theres no marked improvement i will be calling for his head.in todays game theres only so long a club can persevere with underachievers.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Re: Tambling must pick 1

Sarge doesn't have to be a star this season but I agree, this is the year he has to show marked improvement. I'd expect him to play almost every senior game this season for starters and to be a consistant performer. No good having him languish at Coburg for another year.

 

[mb64]

Re: Tambling must pick 1

Sarge doesn't have to be a star this season but I agree, this is the year he has to show marked improvement. I'd expect him to play almost every senior game this season for starters and to be a consistant performer. No good having him languish at Coburg for another year.

Still has to earn his spot.

 

[Phar Ace]

Re: Tambling must pick 1

Sarge doesn't have to be a star this season but I agree, this is the year he has to show marked improvement. I'd expect him to play almost every senior game this season for starters and to be a consistant performer. No good having him languish at Coburg for another year.

Still has to earn his spot.

Agree with you oh Mighty One! But, now Schulz has a pre-season to demonstrate his value and overcome what was a very poor year hampered by injury - this is not a unique tale - it is played out by many many soon to delisted players and only a few overcome that adversity.

For once I'm in Claw's camp. He's being realistic. Hoping Schulz turns it all around but stuggling to find any evidence that he will. However, while a Tiger it will be "Go Sarge!"

 

[Tigerfan]

Re: Tambling must pick 1

Hoping Schulz turns it all around but stuggling to find any evidence that he will.  However, while a Tiger it will be "Go Sarge!"

that attitude will get you an anxiety disorder barracking for richmond. Forget evidence...barrack like hell...and hope HOPE HOPE!!!

 

[realist]

Re: Tambling must pick 1

Look if I was a Hawk supporter, I would agree with you, Franklin had a good first season.

As a sceptic: Why did he receive no votes apart from the nomination in the Rising star award? Surely the judges know it takes longer for talls to make it.

Where is his improvement going to come from? He is already listed at 90Kg and should probably play at 95Kg (Riewolts weight). Too much more than this and he will lose his pace (his main asset).

He is not a good mark - he barely gets more of the ball than Tambling in this way. His contested marks are average. You can't learn this it is a skill you either have it or dont.

On the field his natural game is as a running player get gets lots of uncontested possessions, he likes to run and bounce. If he takes a mark it is wide to the wings on the lead. He doesn't win his own ball, he is a receiver.

Ok, a first year player, but as a high ranked youngster he was expected to be AFL ready, and he is. What of it. Statistically he is nowhere near his media 'star' rating. I think he reads his own press from the petulant look on his face and I think you do too!

To me he is a mobile ruckman come forward in the Ottens mold.

He got votes in the Brownlow medal which is pretty impressive for a first year player.

He always had guys like leppitch and experienced defenders like mark graham playing on him, and he still managed to kick 3 goals. He had it pretty tough trying to play as a forward, it'd be much easier roaming around the wing or back flank than trying to playing forward first up.

His highlights during the year where quite spectacular at times, showing what he is capable of. Very accurate kick for goal with both his set shot, and running flat out from 50.

His strength in his hands, and confidence in arms and shoulders will improve and with that his contented marking will once he can compete against men.

He won a hawthorn 3km time trial and his 400m times are insane for a player his height.

Surely anyone can see that all 16 clubs would like his potential. He has a HEAP of work to do to make it click but geez he has the tools there.

Imagine Dowler full forward, Roughead CHF, and Franklin roaming aorund the flank as he sees it. They all have ages to go but geez surely you see why the hawks are excited having Franklin up their sleave.

Someone may write a player off as a 'flanker' in order to degrade him in an argument. Its just a word that has little royalty amongst footy posters... but I ask you this... is Nathan Brown a flanker... or arguably the best match-winner in the AFL?

Deledio has work to do, he is naturally fit, well built and already good skills, but surely he'll improve as well? Why would 'lids naturally improve and not Buddy? It doesn't make any sense.

Tambling is a good pick up, no doubt, great pace and skills and goal kicking ability, but don't make the mistake of thinking that Buddy can't get to that level, because he has all tools and more to suggest he may be once a generation player. Roughead is more the reliable consistent player, Franklin has that X-Factor.

I see similarities with Deledio Tambling (small/medium height) to Roughead and Franklin (tall) in that Deledio and Roughead will be relied week upon week to be of good standard, occasionally brilliant, with tambling and franklin having less consistency, but when they do play well they do something freakish like kick 3 goals in 10 minutes etc. Matchwinning stuff.

All in all both sides will be enjoying watching their youngsters develop this year, who knows who'll be the best, but IMHO I believe Deledio and Franklin will be the cream of this draft.

 

[Djevv]

Re: Tambling must pick 1

The original post I replied to implied that we should have taken Franklin rather than Tambling. The one you answered is perhaps a bit harsh, but gives a scepical view of Buddy. I admit , however, that I am very biased when it comes to Richie, being both a Territorian and a Richmond supporter. ;D

I think the very good reason why RFC took Tambling and not Buddy is pretty clear when you think about it. At the time of the 2004 draft the Tiges were very light for talent in the midfield. We had class in Johnson and Cogs - who had been out all season with OP. Apart from that there was Tiv,Chaffey, King, Fleming and Hyde. Bowden was moved to CHF where he flourished. So, really, with what we had at the time it would have been criminal negligence not to take the two best midfield options on offer.

 

[hopper]

Re: Tambling must pick 1

He got votes in the Brownlow medal which is pretty impressive for a first year player.

He always had guys like leppitch and experienced defenders like mark graham playing on him, and he still managed to kick 3 goals. He had it pretty tough trying to play as a forward, it'd be much easier roaming around the wing or back flank than trying to playing forward first up.

His highlights during the year where quite spectacular at times, showing what he is capable of. Very accurate kick for goal with both his set shot, and running flat out from 50.

His strength in his hands, and confidence in arms and shoulders will improve and with that his contented marking will once he can compete against men.

He won a hawthorn 3km time trial and his 400m times are insane for a player his height. 

Surely anyone can see that all 16 clubs would like his potential. He has a HEAP of work to do to make it click but geez he has the tools there.

Imagine Dowler full forward, Roughead CHF, and Franklin roaming aorund the flank as he sees it. They all have ages to go but geez surely you see why the hawks are excited having Franklin up their sleave.

Someone may write a player off as a 'flanker' in order to degrade him in an argument. Its just a word that has little royalty amongst footy posters... but I ask you this... is Nathan Brown a flanker... or arguably the best match-winner in the AFL?

Deledio has work to do, he is naturally fit, well built and already good skills, but surely he'll improve as well? Why would 'lids naturally improve and not Buddy? It doesn't make any sense.

Tambling is a good pick up, no doubt, great pace and skills and goal kicking ability, but don't make the mistake of thinking that Buddy can't get to that level, because he has all tools and more to suggest he may be once a generation player. Roughead is more the reliable consistent player, Franklin has that X-Factor.

I see similarities with Deledio Tambling (small/medium height) to Roughead and Franklin (tall) in that Deledio and Roughead will be relied week upon week to be of good standard, occasionally brilliant, with tambling and franklin having less consistency, but when they do play well they do something freakish like kick 3 goals in 10 minutes etc. Matchwinning stuff.

All in all both sides will be enjoying watching their youngsters develop this year, who knows who'll be the best, but IMHO I believe Deledio and Franklin will be the cream of this draft.

Spot on realist, great post. Arguing now who is the most effective and who was the best pick is like trying to choose which of baby twins will be the smartest. We have no idea - but there's plenty to get excited about with both.

 

[tha8ball]

Re: Tambling must pick 1

Such a difficult topic to address...... I remember the draft when Hawthorn by-passed Tambling and i remember the xcitement of the tiger supporters - and tigers coaches and recruiters. For a long time Tambling was a toss up to go No.1 that draft. Simply we HAD to take him. It wouldve been a crime to pass on a kid who we havent had in years - quick, skillfull and has that Xfactor through the midfield that can win games. Whereas the hawks needed talls to replace Holland and Barker.
What people forget when watching the tigers is that we are a little more developed than the Hawks. Last night on Fox Footy they had the rnd 21 game last yr and all Healy and Carey could crap on a bout was the kids at hawthorn. blah blah blah!! They forget that players like Shultz, Moore, FOley, Coughlan, Thursty, jackson etc are still very much kids....talented kids at that. Hawks have not really got those kids - they dont have a coughlan etc. They have a lot of older guys and a lot of juniors through the last couple of drafts.
The Hawks will be exciting but look out if Jay *smile*, Thursty, Moore, McGuane, Pattison etc get going - they r super talents and at least now we have the midfield power to give them the best opportunity!!!!

8ball

 

[realist]

Re: Tambling must pick 1

Such a difficult topic to address...... I remember the draft when Hawthorn by-passed Tambling and i remember the xcitement of the tiger supporters - and tigers coaches and recruiters. For a long time Tambling was a toss up to go No.1 that draft. Simply we HAD to take him. It wouldve been a crime to pass on a kid who we havent had in years - quick, skillfull and has that Xfactor through the midfield that can win games. Whereas the hawks needed talls to replace Holland and Barker.
What people forget when watching the tigers is that we are a little more developed than the Hawks. Last night on Fox Footy they had the rnd 21 game last yr and all Healy and Carey could crap on a bout was the kids at hawthorn. blah blah blah!! They forget that players like Shultz, Moore, FOley, Coughlan, Thursty, jackson etc are still very much kids....talented kids at that. Hawks have not really got those kids - they dont have a coughlan etc. They have a lot of older guys and a lot of juniors through the last couple of drafts.
The Hawks will be exciting but look out if Jay *smile*, Thursty, Moore, McGuane, Pattison etc get going - they r super talents and at least now we have the midfield power to give them the best opportunity!!!!

8ball

Hawks don't have a coughlan?

Luke Hodge... Sam Mitchell, Chance Bateman, Cambell Brown, Michael Osborne, Mark Williams, all young players still..... I'd say their second tier players are pretty good, probably the basis of their future leadership group there. They were missing 4/6 players in the game you were talking about through injury.

 

[zips]

Re: Tambling must pick 1

Such a difficult topic to address...... I remember the draft when Hawthorn by-passed Tambling and i remember the xcitement of the tiger supporters - and tigers coaches and recruiters. For a long time Tambling was a toss up to go No.1 that draft. Simply we HAD to take him. It wouldve been a crime to pass on a kid who we havent had in years - quick, skillfull and has that Xfactor through the midfield that can win games. Whereas the hawks needed talls to replace Holland and Barker.
What people forget when watching the tigers is that we are a little more developed than the Hawks. Last night on Fox Footy they had the rnd 21 game last yr and all Healy and Carey could crap on a bout was the kids at hawthorn. blah blah blah!! They forget that players like Shultz, Moore, FOley, Coughlan, Thursty, jackson etc are still very much kids....talented kids at that. Hawks have not really got those kids - they dont have a coughlan etc. They have a lot of older guys and a lot of juniors through the last couple of drafts.
The Hawks will be exciting but look out if Jay *smile*, Thursty, Moore, McGuane, Pattison etc get going - they r super talents and at least now we have the midfield power to give them the best opportunity!!!!

8ball

Hawks don't have a coughlan?

Luke Hodge... Sam Mitchell, Chance Bateman, Cambell Brown, Michael Osborne, Mark Williams, all young players still..... I'd say their second tier players are pretty good, probably the basis of their future leadership group there. They were missing 4/6 players in the game you were talking about through injury.

Realist, you can't be living up to your name if you think these guys are in the same class as Coughlan. :

 

[Stuart]

Re: Tambling must pick 1

Hodge & Mitchell are definitley as classy as Cogs.

 

[blaisee]

Re: Tambling must pick 1

Such a difficult topic to address...... I remember the draft when Hawthorn by-passed Tambling and i remember the xcitement of the tiger supporters - and tigers coaches and recruiters. For a long time Tambling was a toss up to go No.1 that draft. Simply we HAD to take him. It wouldve been a crime to pass on a kid who we havent had in years - quick, skillfull and has that Xfactor through the midfield that can win games. Whereas the hawks needed talls to replace Holland and Barker.
What people forget when watching the tigers is that we are a little more developed than the Hawks. Last night on Fox Footy they had the rnd 21 game last yr and all Healy and Carey could crap on a bout was the kids at hawthorn. blah blah blah!! They forget that players like Shultz, Moore, FOley, Coughlan, Thursty, jackson etc are still very much kids....talented kids at that. Hawks have not really got those kids - they dont have a coughlan etc. They have a lot of older guys and a lot of juniors through the last couple of drafts.
The Hawks will be exciting but look out if Jay *smile*, Thursty, Moore, McGuane, Pattison etc get going - they r super talents and at least now we have the midfield power to give them the best opportunity!!!!

8ball

Hawks don't have a coughlan?

Luke Hodge... Sam Mitchell, Chance Bateman, Cambell Brown, Michael Osborne, Mark Williams, all young players still..... I'd say their second tier players are pretty good, probably the basis of their future leadership group there. They were missing 4/6 players in the game you were talking about through injury.

realist,

why are you acting like a tiger fan, and saying "they" as in the hawks,and "we" as in the tigers.
At least have the balls to admit you are a dawk fan.
You have zero credibility regardless but pretending to be a tiger fan, to give your argyment some merit is ridiculous

 

[Tigers of Old]

Re: Tambling must pick 1

Hodge & Mitchell are definitley as classy as Cogs.

Agree. Hodge particularly is an up and coming star.