Tambling (merged)

[Disco08]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

Meaning he hit 7 tackles and missed 9. Not a great result I would have thought, although I admit to not knowing what a good tackle % actually is.

Nah, he attempted 7 tackles and 3 directly changed the course of the game (according to them). Their tackle stat is defined as "a reasonable attempt to tackle an opposing player", hence they sometimes credit a player with less tackles than Champion Data. *smile* poor attempts to tackle would come under skill errors or wouldn't be recorded at all.

3 effective tackles a game is good enough to be in the top 50, who are basically all midfielders.

Tambling's TE% this year is 54. Random comparisons - Pendlebury (44), Ablett (60), Bartel (55), Griffen (52), Cross (50), O'Keefe (57).

Another interesting stat is the score involvements for Sunday's game. Cotchin led with 6 (no surprise) and Tambling was clear second with 5.

 

[GoodOne]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

I took it to mean he had 7 tackles and 3 were effective. :don't know

Correct! Others in the red for tackle effectiveness. Tuck who had no tackles. Deledio who had 1 ineffective, Cotchin 1 out of 3 and Foley 3 out of 8.

 

[hopper]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

Stats are too weird for me these days. How do you have an ineffective tackle - surely that's not a tackle at all?! Damned lies and statistics!

 

[lamb22]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

Nah, he attempted 7 tackles and 3 directly changed the course of the game (according to them). Their tackle stat is defined as "a reasonable attempt to tackle an opposing player", hence they sometimes credit a player with less tackles than Champion Data. p!ss poor attempts to tackle would come under skill errors or wouldn't be recorded at all.

3 effective tackles a game is good enough to be in the top 50, who are basically all midfielders.

Tambling's TE% this year is 54. Random comparisons - Pendlebury (44), Ablett (60), Bartel (55), Griffen (52), Cross (50), O'Keefe (57).

Another interesting stat is the score involvements for Sunday's game. Cotchin led with 6 (no surprise) and Tambling was clear second with 5.

That's what I meant by my comment of him doing some good work. Some very traumatised posters dont seem to watch our games very closely at all.

 

[evo]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

Still runs to the wrong spots, which isnt going to change.

That seems to me like one of the few things that could be changed. Just need some good specialist coaching.

I'm with Duckman, we gotta stick with him. It would be crazy farming him out for a third rounder or something.

 

[GoodOne]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

Stats are too weird for me these days. How do you have an ineffective tackle - surely that's not a tackle at all?! Damned lies and statistics!

Pretty sure ineffective tackles are those that the tackled player still gets the ball away to their advantage.

 

[Disco08]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

That's right. An effective tackle either causes a turnover or a stoppage. An ineffective tackle means the opposition keeps the ball for at least another disposal. Doesn't mean they can't be good solid attempts to tackle though, sometimes good players are simply good enough to get their hands free and dispose effectively.

 

[rockstar_tiger]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

If he's one of our leading goal assist players whilegetting low posessions, I look forward to him getting over the injury so he can double his output.

His quality is good IMO, we just need more.

I reckon he'll be fine, now let's find someone else to question before this thread hits 500...

 

[Leysy Days]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

That seems to me like one of the few things that could be changed. Just need some good specialist coaching.

Maybe if that was all it is.

Its just one example of who leysy has long seen as not a naturally smart footballer John Terry.

 

[Disco08]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

Imagine if he was smart Leysy. Given what he's already done with the absence of natural smarts, he'd be better than Ablett.

 

[GoodOne]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

If he's one of our leading goal assist players whilegetting low posessions, I look forward to him getting over the injury so he can double his output.

Don't confuse goal assists with score involvements. A goal assist is directly disposing to a player who kicks a goal. Involvement means involvement in the chain that eventually led to a score, whether that be a goal or behind. Big difference. Hard to get much out of score involvements in my opinion. You could be playing next to McGuane, and every time you pass to him, he stuffs up. No score involvements. Or you could be playing next to Deledio and everytime you pass to him, he pinpoints his passes everytime which creates a score. No difference in your disposal but a big difference in your involvement score. How about being forward of centre and having two options, one straight down the guts to a player 30 metres out, and another a short chip to the pocket 45 metres out. You take the pocket option. A point is kicked from a difficult angle whereas the 30m out would have kicked a goal (well hopefully). Both plays get awarded a score involvement but one decision was terrible.

Tambling has no goal assists this week (mind you there were only 5 all up). He has had 2 goal assists in 7 games. Unbelievably thats equal top for the Tigers. Needs to kick more goals if he is to be classed a success in the forward line.

 

[Leysy Days]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

Imagine if he was smart Leysy. Given what he's already done with the absence of natural smarts, he'd be better than Ablett.

That makes zero sense.

Am not going over old ground. You obviously think he's smart on the ground. Leysy thinks he lacks in that dept.

 

[Disco08]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

That makes zero sense.

Why? He's put up some great performances during his career. According to you they were accomplished despite his lack of football smarts and instinct. To me it's perfectly logical that the addition of these traits would make him a far better player and consequently these performances would have been that much better also.

I think anyone that can play as Tambling has done on numerous occasion, at AFL level, must have above average football smarts. You obviously think these performances can be fluked. This is where I think the flaw in your argument lies.

 

[Leysy Days]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

Why? He's put up some great performances during his career. According to you they were accomplished despite his lack of football smarts and instinct. To me it's perfectly logical that the addition of these traits would make him a far better player and consequently these performances would have been that much better also.

Yes it would improve him. Never said it wouldnt.
But to suggest it would put him alongside the best player in the game is folly.

You dont think that Tambling not having the strongest core in the AFL (which Ablett has) that makes him almost non tacklable would have any bearing.
Not to mention the gut running that Ablett does that shakes his tagger every week.
Leysy would say they amongst others would still make a difference. You obviously don't.

I think anyone that can play as Tambling has done on numerous occasion, at AFL level, must have above average football smarts. You obviously think these performances can be fluked. This is where I think the flaw in your argument lies.

Completely disagree.

Heaps of players have had excellent runs of games but couldnt string them together long term. Heaps & some for plenty longer than hal for two thirds of a season.It doesnt mean its a level they are capable of long term.
They may have lacked footy smarts, been one-sided, not trained hard enough, played above themselves, or the most common - been found out by opposition coaches who put more time into them etc that saw them drop back to a true level.

On the AFL level footy smarts, ask yourself why Tambling was taken out of the midfield. Hardwick doesnt even have him as part of his stoppage rotations.
Its because his strengths lie in his speed, overhead ability & footskills when clear on the run. Not in his awareness, nor his ability to think quickly (i.e natural smarts)which leysy has long advocated are very hard to learn.

He can play a role in our future no doubt. Hopefully in the backline leysy believes. But to expect him to perform to a level he has achieved at only one smal stage of his career isn't fair on his ability ILO.

 

[Disco08]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

Yes it would improve him. Never said it wouldnt.
But to suggest it would put him alongside the best player in the game is folly.

You dont think that Tambling not having the strongest core in the AFL (which Ablett has) that makes him almost non tacklable would have any bearing.
Not to mention the gut running that Ablett does that shakes his tagger every week.
Leysy would say they amongst others would still make a difference. You obviously don't.

Yeah you're right. I'm so stupid I think none of those things make a difference. Good point.

If you can't see the logic I was trying to point out let's just move right along.

Completely disagree.

Heaps of players have had excellent runs of games but couldnt string them together long term. Heaps & some for plenty longer than hal for two thirds of a season.It doesnt mean its a level they are capable of long term.
They may have lacked footy smarts, been one-sided, not trained hard enough, played above themselves, or the most common - been found out by opposition coaches who put more time into them etc that saw them drop back to a true level.

If you can show me one player who steadily progressed to a reasonable point (lets say top 5 in their club's B&F) over 5 years only to regress 4 years without explanation (other than to say the good performances were flukes) I'll be amazed.

If a player plays to a level for a season or more there's no doubt that's the level they're capable of. Injuries, lack of confidence and other factors may inhibit their ability but the ability certainly remains until age related decline sets in.

And to make the point again - seriously lacking footy smarts (which from what you and others have said previously are intrinsic) would prohibit any player from putting together consistent good form at AFL level. If Tambling doesn't know where to run instinctively, how is he ever going to run to the right place? Yet here he was getting into plenty of good positions time after time last year? Flukes? If he can't see the good option in tight how is he ever going to see it, let alone hit it as he was doing last year?

On the AFL level footy smarts, ask yourself why Tambling was taken out of the midfield. Hardwick doesnt even have him as part of his stoppage rotations.
Its because his strengths lie in his speed, overhead ability & footskills when clear on the run. Not in his awareness, nor his ability to think quickly (i.e natural smarts)which leysy has long advocated are very hard to learn.

I think it's too presumptuous to assume that's why he's playing the position he is right now. This is the same argument I had with Livers last year. I'm not saying those aren't his strengths or that he can't play off half back. I'm only saying that the good performances last year indicate he has more footy smart than you credit him for, unless all those performances were flukes.

He can play a role in our future no doubt. Hopefully in the backline leysy believes. But to expect him to perform to a level he has achieved at only one smal stage of his career isn't fair on his ability ILO.

Surely when a 23 year old player takes 5 years to steadily reach a level it's fair to hope that they can either hold that level or even keep improving?

 

[Leysy Days]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

Yeah you're right. I'm so stupid I think none of those things make a difference. Good point.

If you can't see the logic I was trying to point out let's just move right along.

You said be better than Ablett. Fair enough to try & make a points, but a weird thing to say leysy thought.

Never disagreed with the logic he would improve. Thats what leysy's argued has held him back from consistently producing for years.

If you can show me one player who steadily progressed to a reasonable point (lets say top 5 in their club's B&F) over 5 years only to regress 4 years without explanation (other than to say the good performances were flukes) I'll be amazed.

Can only be arsed looking at three clubs but at Geelong, Freo & Carlton A very quick look at the 100+ game players of recent years shows - Michael Mansfield, Glen Kilpatrick (perfect example), Simon Beaumont, Brad Fisher, Jason Norrish, Byron Schammer, Stephen O'Reilly, Craig Callahan are all examples of players that improved to hit a very good peak half way through there career only to fade away to various levels after that.

What that is down to is maybe various reasons, but there is no doubt some are down to simple flukes where the performances are not a true & correct reading of there ability & career. Or flukes as you call it.

If Tambling doesn't know where to run instinctively, how is he ever going to run to the right place? Yet here he was getting into plenty of good positions time after time last year? Flukes? If he can't see the good option in tight how is he ever going to see it, let alone hit it as he was doing last year?

This is probably the most flawed thing leysy see's. Kayne Pettifer went in hard sometimes, does that make him a tough player. No. Richo kicked plenty of goals, does that make him a goos set shot at goal. No. Jordan Lewis has picked out teammates with excellent kicks, does that make him a good kick. No. Gus lead out well a couple of times on the weekend, does that make him a smart forward. No. Tivendale would have gave some good handpasses away in close in his years as well. He was very poor in tight.

Just because a player does something, once, twice or many times doesn't mean it comes instinctively. Only when they automatically do the right thing more often than the average AFL footballer does it. At least in leysy's & dare say it most peoples eyes.

 

[Harry]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

He needs to play in the backline which would release Deledio into the middle. He could play deledio's role. Connors comes back and we have newman, connors, webberly and tambling providing run and delivery from the back. the obvious way to go imo.

 

[TigerForce]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

Try him at forward pocket. Kicking some Neon Leon goals will spark him.

 

[GoodOne]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

He needs to play in the backline which would release Deledio into the middle. He could play deledio's role. Connors comes back and we have newman, connors, webberly and tambling providing run and delivery from the back. the obvious way to go imo.

Totally agree. Backline is his spot for the taking if he can be bothered putting 100% effort in. Forward? Nah, doesn't have the natural flair to be a successful forward. Neon Leon and Tambling are worlds apart in natural talent and goal sense.

 

[TigerForce]

Re: Tambling [Merged]

Totally agree. Backline is his spot for the taking if he can be bothered putting 100% effort in. Forward? Nah, doesn't have the natural flair to be a successful forward. Neon Leon and Tambling are worlds apart in natural talent and goal sense.

I don't think so Goody. I've seen Tambo kick some good goals over the years especially the big snap last week.

He's been tried in defence numerous times and has failed.