No reply to my question JF - you too must believe in spreading the gospel - no matter the consequences?
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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Sport: leave the religion out thanks.
- Thread starter Redford
- Start date
RemoteTiger said:
When you have news as good as this why would you want to keep it to yourself, aRTy? Besides if I honestly believe that non-believers will go to eternal punishment in Hell then why wouldn't I try to warn you about it? Let me give you 2 examples. If I knew that you were going to be hit by a bus tomorrow, what kind of person would I be if I didn't say something to warn you about it and possibly prevent it?
Similarly, if you are my neighbour and I can see your house is on fire, wouldn't I try to warn you of the danger and save you? What kind of person am I if I sit in the comfort of my own house and watch you burn?
You are completely entitled to have your own beliefs and I won't ever "foist" my beliefs on you but if you are interested in chatting or debating the subject, as many others on here have been, then I am more than willing to discuss it.
Finally, I am not sure how you can say that it is a 2000 year old fable when every historian worth his salt acknowledges that there is irrefutable proof that Jesus existed. Besides the world as we know it has been affected more greatly by him than any other person. Our western laws, morals and ethics were all originally based on his teachings and the 10 commandments. Even our calendar's are based on his coming. You know what is amazing. His first coming was predicted 100 times in the Old Testament and that came true. The New Testament has 500 predictions of his second coming...
Lindsay Fox, with respect sir,
the first para of you big post referring to 'religeous tolerance' and it not applying to Christianity, Redford never said anything of the sort that he wouldnt' be annoyed if a muslim thanked allah. I can't speak for him but I'd be just as annoyed. Also the premise is wrong, I just don't agree. Fundamentalist Islam gets far more scrutiny in Christian countries than fundamentalist Christianity does. An example off the top of my head if headscarves being banned in France while crucifixes were'nt, I know its not Australia but it illustrates a point. I'm an athiest remember, I dislike any fundamenatalism
Secondly, regarding the american college student who trots out the old free will chestnut. Does not wash with me at all Foxy, and we've had this discussio before. What about the millions of people through history, whether at the hands of Stalin, Hitler, Amin, {insert name of power-crazed evil-doer here], such as is currently occuring in Sudan in Africa. Where is their free will? were they born in X nation of their own free will? Were they born into circumstances where they can't get an overpaid job and go down and buy a Kluger to drive to a better nation etc etc etc..
You doing exactly what I said Christians always do in the earlier post, that you ignored or didn't read, re igoring the evil, like the burrowing killer heart worms in central America. One college student in a wealthy country does not convince me, you'll have to do better than that..
the first para of you big post referring to 'religeous tolerance' and it not applying to Christianity, Redford never said anything of the sort that he wouldnt' be annoyed if a muslim thanked allah. I can't speak for him but I'd be just as annoyed. Also the premise is wrong, I just don't agree. Fundamentalist Islam gets far more scrutiny in Christian countries than fundamentalist Christianity does. An example off the top of my head if headscarves being banned in France while crucifixes were'nt, I know its not Australia but it illustrates a point. I'm an athiest remember, I dislike any fundamenatalism
Secondly, regarding the american college student who trots out the old free will chestnut. Does not wash with me at all Foxy, and we've had this discussio before. What about the millions of people through history, whether at the hands of Stalin, Hitler, Amin, {insert name of power-crazed evil-doer here], such as is currently occuring in Sudan in Africa. Where is their free will? were they born in X nation of their own free will? Were they born into circumstances where they can't get an overpaid job and go down and buy a Kluger to drive to a better nation etc etc etc..
You doing exactly what I said Christians always do in the earlier post, that you ignored or didn't read, re igoring the evil, like the burrowing killer heart worms in central America. One college student in a wealthy country does not convince me, you'll have to do better than that..
RemoteTiger said:
Remote,
In Jayfox's defence, I wouldn't say he has done that on this thread....he has been asked questions, and is answering them with answers he believes in.
I don't think he is foisting, or trying to change anyone's life on this thread.
The other problem I have with this quote of yours, is that you have singled out Christianity.....yet people who devote their lives towards another religion, and use violence as a means of "foisting it upon others" are not mentioned....why is that?
Even though I don't like the Joes or the Mormons knocking on my door at 7:00am on a Sunday morning.....let me say I'd rather that happen, over beheadings or having my flight plow into a building... :-X
You’re right Gluebox. I didn’t answer your questions. My apologies. Here goes.
As I’ve already said, raising the religious spectre in sports bothers me for a whole host of reasons.
Sports is one of, if not the only domain on this planet where people of all backgrounds can come together, put aside all their differences and compete against one another with relative good will before, during and after the event. The Olympics being the classic example. Certainly, that’s not always the case, but at the very least, sport is a platform for engedering goodwill amongst people of all different backgrounds. The moment you start promoting religion in sport, you are undermining that platform.
Besides that, I personally find it crass that someone can thank their God for helping them to win an event. To me that suggests that God was on their side and not the loser’s.
I also find it disturbing (particularly in America) where there’s this right wing religious brainwashing that is going on, and sportspeople are being driven by agendas other than a true or genuine belief that their faith actually helped them in their sporting endeavour.
Absolutely it would bother me. It bothers me if ANY sportsperson of ANY religious background gets up there and thanks their God. This is an extension of what I have just been saying above. The moment we start getting people from all sorts of religious backgrounds thanking their God, then that’s an inference that “my God was better than yours today” and becomes the catalyst for the very angst we are all striving to avoid in this world. Getting my point ?
I’ll tell you why its considered appropriate Phonebox. Its because a mother and father are a personal relationship that doesn’t affect anyone else when its mentioned. You may say that people with a faith also have a “personal relationship” with their God, but lets face it, these people form part of a religion that has other followers who all subscribe to a particular view/s which are, quite often in direct conflict with others. One is harmless, the other is not.
As for freedom of speech, if I win the Norm Smith medal, I’ve got a right to get up there and swear my ar$e off. But I don’t because its not considered appropriate. I’m not putting religion in that same category of example of course, but equally, I believe its something that is inappropriate to be raising on the sporting field.
Hope that answers your questions Sandbox.
jayfox said:
As I’ve already said, raising the religious spectre in sports bothers me for a whole host of reasons.
Sports is one of, if not the only domain on this planet where people of all backgrounds can come together, put aside all their differences and compete against one another with relative good will before, during and after the event. The Olympics being the classic example. Certainly, that’s not always the case, but at the very least, sport is a platform for engedering goodwill amongst people of all different backgrounds. The moment you start promoting religion in sport, you are undermining that platform.
Besides that, I personally find it crass that someone can thank their God for helping them to win an event. To me that suggests that God was on their side and not the loser’s.
I also find it disturbing (particularly in America) where there’s this right wing religious brainwashing that is going on, and sportspeople are being driven by agendas other than a true or genuine belief that their faith actually helped them in their sporting endeavour.
jayfox said:
Absolutely it would bother me. It bothers me if ANY sportsperson of ANY religious background gets up there and thanks their God. This is an extension of what I have just been saying above. The moment we start getting people from all sorts of religious backgrounds thanking their God, then that’s an inference that “my God was better than yours today” and becomes the catalyst for the very angst we are all striving to avoid in this world. Getting my point ?
jayfox said:
I’ll tell you why its considered appropriate Phonebox. Its because a mother and father are a personal relationship that doesn’t affect anyone else when its mentioned. You may say that people with a faith also have a “personal relationship” with their God, but lets face it, these people form part of a religion that has other followers who all subscribe to a particular view/s which are, quite often in direct conflict with others. One is harmless, the other is not.
As for freedom of speech, if I win the Norm Smith medal, I’ve got a right to get up there and swear my ar$e off. But I don’t because its not considered appropriate. I’m not putting religion in that same category of example of course, but equally, I believe its something that is inappropriate to be raising on the sporting field.
Hope that answers your questions Sandbox.
Leysy wants to see GreyLocks & EggThawed keep replyin to each other.
We could have a record "play on names" in the offing here peeps. ;D
We could have a record "play on names" in the offing here peeps. ;D
Liverpool said:
Mate - good points - I choose Christianity because it is them who keep knocking on my door - leaving phamphlets in my letterbox. My brother-in-law is a born again Christian - at family events he always brings the conversation around to Christianity and the bible - always trying to convert the others in the family to his church and the teachings of the bible. Hence it is only Christianity that I find being foisted upon me - I would say the same to any other religion should the proponents of them were trying to force their faith on me or my immediate family as well.
I have my beliefs - those beliefs were borne from the need to kick an addiction and have helped me not only stay away from that addiction but also in every other area of my life. The basic foundation on my belief is not from a religion and it spreads its word through attraction - if you would like to live your life free from the addiction demons like we do then accept this belief structure and embrace it into your life the way you want to. We do not force any form of gospel or head of religion or like upon anybody - we just go about our daily lives and business ensuring that we achieve the necessary daily achievements to live a life free of an addiction. If that style of life appeals to those that are currently addicted and who want out of that addiction then we help them if not - we leave them alone.
Opposed to this are religions that have to spread the gospel - slay infidels - all on the basis that their "imaginary friend" is better than your "imaginary friend". It is IMO a plain and simple grab for the mind of the human masses and usually to extend the power of a particular state or person.
During my Psychology studies we had to gain a basic understanding of religions and how they affect the mind and the many various personal reactions of those affects. All religions have a basic point of treating people respectfully and as their own makers creation. But in practice this is never done. Further religious tenets force people to think in a singular narrow way - and most if not all of scientific break throughs have come form people who have thought and examined and tested outside the singular narrow way.
Religions IMO are a creation of man to bring the masses under control for the benefit of or pursuit of power by an individual or a group of people. The curse of religions over the last 100 years is the rise in Education standards where the masses are now questioning why?
Faith plays a very important role in all peoples lives - it can be argued that even atheists have a faith in non-faith - but faith is IMO something very private and should be kept that way and not foisted upon others.
I agree too - in fairness to JF he has not been foisting his faith on other posters here on PRE but in truth defending it. Why should he have to defend it? If it works for JF then that is his life and I admire him for his resilience of faith. But I know JF would agree that there are many others who share his faith who are always trying to "bring more sheep into the flock". And that is what alarms me. A faith that needs to spread through foisting itself on others does not gain a true foundation and come the first crisis in an individual's life will be cast aside - whereas a faith that is borne from within the individual will always be that individuals and come any crisis that faith will see that individual through.
I'll get off my preachers box and go back to my simple but effective beliefs.
To JF - May your God be with you.
To Liverpool - always good to have a yarn......RT
Redford said:
Will everyone please remove their soap boxes as they leave the building. The Christianity thread is on your right and the Apathy thread on your left.
Michael said:
Not quite Mickey Spillane. When you're looking for a lost ball, under tournament regs you have 5 minutes before you have to declare your ball lost. Players tell their caddies to "start the watch" so they know exactly where they stand. Also, if you get a warning for slow play and are on the clock, some tours invoke a maximum shot time e.g. 45 seconds from the moment you get to your ball.
Watches can be very handy in golf Michael Douglas. I often use mine to check on whether or not I'm gonna reach the 19th in time for Happy Hour.
