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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Sport: leave the religion out thanks.
- Thread starter Redford
- Start date
Ready said:
Before I can steal his carrotts I must first estabish that my fair offer is rejected.
Now when I resort to violence and criminal acts.
I can justify my behaviour with it being a fight against capitalistic, profit seeking, greed driven retailers rather than just violence
Redford said:
Okay Redbored, I am here as requested by you.
I usually agree with virtually everything you post on this site but on this issue we are clearly poles apart, but you knew that when you asked for my opinion.
I'll start with some questions - Why do you think it is that sportsmen thanking God bothers you? Would it bother you if a Muslim player somewhere got up and thanked Alla or Mohammed and would their be such an outcry from the people on this site? We live in a day of so called 'religous tolerance' which seems to apply to everything but Christianity, the faith on which the morals of this country were formed. Why is it considered appropriate, and even applauded, when a player may thank his late Mother or Father and say that they were "looking down on him" and it is not okay to thank God? When did freedom of speech in this country no longer apply to Christians?
I think that any winner in their victory speech should have the right to thank whoever they like, whoever they feel helped them to win. From a Christian's perspective, I can tell you that I feel that God is with me whether I win or lose. I have been in the last 3 GF's and lost the first before going back to back the last 2 years. The first loss hurt but I didn't think that God had abandoned me or was barracking for the other team, that's just sport/life. As it turned out losing the first one made me appreciate the subsequent wins even more. It didn't mean that it hurt any less at the time though. Life is like that sometimes. You have to go through the bad times to appreciate the good ones but God is with you the whole way.
I do agree, however, that many people who don't live their lives as Christians thank God in victory speeches and that confuses me also. Why thank God for a win if you don't consider him at all other times? That equates to virtual blasphemy in my book. But, still, that is the choice of the individual. The problem with 'Christianity' is that people (the members of this site are a classic example) judge the faith on the people who claim to follow it. Many of these people are not really practicing, God-following Christians at all. As I have said before people are inherently evil and will do wrong and many wrong things have been done in the name of God by misguided people with selfish, impure motives. Does that mean that it is God's fault? No. Their time will come in judgement before God just like the rest of us. If you are going to judge Christianity though, do it by it's founder - Jesus Christ. If anyone can fault any of His teachings then I would be interested to hear it.
jayfox said:
Jayfox,
Good post! :clap
The two parts I highlighted are what I call "reverse discrimination", where the majority are treated differently in favour of a minority.
Many "lefties" and other do-gooders, who think that minority groups are disadvantaged in some way, go so far to 'help' them, that they actually start discriminating the majority.
Any call from the majority to stop this favouritism towards the minority, and to just treat everyone the same, are shouted down and branded racists, bigots, and rednecks.
This is why we are seeing different standards applying towards Christianity, and Islam, for example....especially in Western countries.
I have no problem with people thanking whoever they want after a sporting victory, however, I think if people want to thank God/Allah/Buddha, etc....then you would hope they show this gratitude towards their messiah every day they live, and are not just singling God/Allah/Buddha out as part of an attention-seeking exercise in front of the TV cameras.
We may not know, and may never know, which athletes 'thanking God' are true believers and practice their faith religiously, but when they decide to thank their messiah in front of the TV camera, the 'big one' upstairs will know....and that's what counts!
I'm an agnostic borderline atheist who has no problem with people practicing their religion and publicly showing their devotion.
But please, allow us non-believers to live in peace.
But please, allow us non-believers to live in peace.
jayfox said:
I can't answer for anyone else, but I'm equally offended by people thanking any religion. I'm offended by Hayden forcing his catholic beliefs on people in victory speeches as I am offended by Afridi forcing his muslim beliefs on people in victory speeches. I'm not saying they can't say what they want, just that I'm offended when they do it. Last I checked being offended wasn't a crime, if being offended by something was a crime, all the conservative would already be in jail.
rosy23 said:
Your thoughts here bring up a great question that was debated a little on the 'Christianity' thread Rosy - 'Why do bad things happen to good people?'. I feel that it is appropriate to post a letter from an inspiring young woman that I read recently which I think explains it well. Although lengthy, please have a read of it -
So Why Do Bad Things Happen?
by Stacy James
The biggest question with evil is, "Why doesn't God prevent it from happening?" If God is really an all-good and all-powerful being, why doesn't he do something?
First of all, God does not create evil; he allows it to occur. When he originally created the world, he created all things good. He created people, however, with the freedom to choose. This includes the freedom to make right and wrong choices. Often those wrong choices bring about consequences that end up hurting ourselves or other people, sometimes innocent victims who didn't deserve it.
As a college student, I was paralyzed in a diving accident. God did not push me in the water to punish me or necessarily teach me a lesson; I chose to dive off my friend's shoulders. As horrible as the consequences were, I can blame no one but myself.
Of course, God could intervene and control everything about our lives--the good and the bad--but then we would merely be robots and not truly free. He could even force us to love him if he wanted, but then forced love isn't true love. He gives us the freedom to choose or not to choose him, the freedom to live and enjoy life, and the freedom to make right and wrong choices. Unfortunately, we are left to deal with the consequences of our own and other people's actions.
Author C. S. Lewis said that 80 percent of suffering comes from the moral evil of mankind. So what about the other 20 percent? There are some things we will never truly understand here on Earth.
There is good news, however. First of all, the God of love is also a God of justice. For all those who make wrong choices, hurt innocent victims, and get off scot-free, a time is coming when they will face the consequences of their actions. God is the Ultimate Judge, and in due season, God will judge everyone for all their deeds. "Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account" (Hebrews 4:13).
Second, God often uses the trials of life for a greater good, often to develop our character and make us better people. And we are able to help others in similar circumstances. I have been able to reach out to disabled students (after my character was changed from complacency to compassion!). Trials also force us to see what is important in life, and often drive us to God when nothing else will. We see the importance of faith, of love, of caring, and of family and friends.
Third, God has provided a way out. A time is coming when there will be no more suffering. In heaven, people will enjoy a paradise beyond imagination. God has created a place of eternal glory where there will be no more crying, pain, sickness, or death; a place where people will share his joy forever.
Finally, God does care. He never promised life would be problem-free, but he promised to be with people. Jesus himself felt love, compassion, and sorrow, and was drawn like a magnet to those who were hurting. God, in his love, wants a relationship with us. "For God so loved the world, that he gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:16).
To read Stacy's story, see her website at www.walkingvictorious.com.
And another question -
Part of the Christian creed is to go forth and spread the word - aren't these sports people who after winning an event and having the spotlight upon them just doing what the creed requests - spreading the word?
If Christianity works for you - so be it - enjoy its narrow blinkered approach to the world - but do not try to foist it upon others.
Allow us to have different views and when we leave this mortal life we will face whatever lay ahead - and my money is not on a 2000 year old fable that tells us there is a heaven and there is a hell.
Strewth that bolt of lightning was close! :hihi :rofl
Part of the Christian creed is to go forth and spread the word - aren't these sports people who after winning an event and having the spotlight upon them just doing what the creed requests - spreading the word?
If Christianity works for you - so be it - enjoy its narrow blinkered approach to the world - but do not try to foist it upon others.
Allow us to have different views and when we leave this mortal life we will face whatever lay ahead - and my money is not on a 2000 year old fable that tells us there is a heaven and there is a hell.
Strewth that bolt of lightning was close! :hihi :rofl
Redford said:
Gary Ablett after the 89 Grand Final.
Sorry to break onto Michael Jayfoxs turf BTW.
struggletown3121 said:
Yeah, but he made those comments after WINNING the Norm Smith medal.
I have no problem with anyone having a faith. But when you consider how sensitive and divisive the subject is, then to use sport - the great equaliser amongst us all that brings people of all races, religions, backgrounds etc from all over the world together - as a vehicle to promote one's particular faith is courting disaster imo.
The common catchphrase "politics has no place in sport" should also be applied to religion imo.
Redford said:
Rudeford. I will answer your question even though you didn't give me the courtesy of answering mine.
Truth is that, aside from personal experiences with either myself or Christian friends of mine, never. I agree that it is an indictment on these athletes that do it when they win but let's also be honest - how many people actually get to make a speech after losing an event? Not nearly as many as who win it!!
Redford said:
Thanks Struggler. If you are bagging Breadboard and helping me out you are welcome to break into my turf anytime!
Another question Druglord, how exactly do you see Aaron Baddely's or Shaun Hart's speeches to be "courting disaster? A little dramatic wouldn't you think?
