Sport: leave the religion out thanks.

[jayfox]

As I have said previously - have your faith - if it works for you - great - but do not foist it on others as the dogma and tenets of Christianity insist you do. Because I have seen the other side of your religions - the mentally scared and hurt individuals and those results are appalling.........

aRTy. First of all your about post makes Christianity out virtually to be the mother of all evils, at least that's the way it comes across to me. Whilst I admit that many people. world leaders included, do wrong in the 'name' of Christianity, I repeat that those people are not TRUE Christians and will face judgement from God on their actions. That is the bit that you don't seem to understand. People who profess to be Christians but do not act as God has instructed will be judged and will go to Hell just like non-Christians. The Bible says that "Faith without works is dead!" In other words practise what HE preached and if you don't then your faith is not real. This doesn't mean that you have to be perfect, as this is impossible, but it means that you have to try to do the right thing in every part of your life.

Secondly on your issues with Christianity, most of the charities that we know and support today are Christian based charities. If Christianity didn't exist then neither would these. I am talking about the likes of World Vision, Compassion, The Salvation Army, St Vincent de Paul, Christian Children's fund, The Red Cross and that is just came off the top of my head!
Also, Our Western society has been founded on Christian beliefs and most of our western morals, like freedom and respect are based on Christian ethics. My point is that while some people do wrong in the name of Christianity, there have been many, many very good and ongoing works done as well.

Next is - the 1950's are better than today - but for aides all the things you mentioned were around in the 50's too - but they were kept quiet - swept under the rug by society's leaders of the time and we all know they were all Church goers back then hence the Church had a huge say in what was to be done and seen to be done.

Yes, but all of these things have increased monumentally. Go and do some research into whether natural disasters, the threat of nuclear war, rapes, murders, drug abuse etc. etc. have increased or decreased since 1950. I think you know what the answer will be.

70% of Australians are Christians - funny I put that down on the census too - because I was baptised - but I am not a church going practicing Christian and I'd bet a majority who said they were Christians on the census are the same as me.

I can't understand why you would 'align' yourself with Christianity on the census when you have so many issues with the faith?

I believe the Australian Parliament is for all not just Christians.

So do I.

"There are none so blind as those that refuse to see"

That quote could work in reverse.

 

[evo]

First of all your about post makes Christianity out virtually to be the mother of all evils, at least that's the way it comes across to me. Whilst I admit that many people. world leaders included, do wrong in the 'name' of Christianity, I repeat that those people are not TRUE Christians

Wise words Jadejocks.

And that's coming from a committed atheist.

 

[jayfox]

First of all your about post makes Christianity out virtually to be the mother of all evils, at least that's the way it comes across to me. Whilst I admit that many people. world leaders included, do wrong in the 'name' of Christianity, I repeat that those people are not TRUE Christians

Wise words Jadejocks.

And that's coming from a committed atheist.

Jadejocks, that's a new one. I like it trEVO Marmalade!

 

[evo]

Anytime Jellobox.

As Redford said earlier.This stuff should probably be over in the christianity thread.

 

[jayfox]

Anytime Jellobox.

As Redford said earlier.This stuff should probably be over in the christianity thread.

I agree entirely but it somehow got merged over here too. That's probably my fault as I should have asked people to debate this sort of stuff on that thread.

Sheesh, Floorboard's is a sensitive bloke isn't he? Can't put up with someone saying a 30 second thankyou to God during a victory speech. Not a very tolerant person is he? ;D

 

[Redford]

Anytime Jellobox.

As Redford said earlier.This stuff should probably be over in the christianity thread.

I agree entirely but it somehow got merged over here too. That's probably my fault as I should have asked people to debate this sort of stuff on that thread.

Sheesh, Floorboard's is a sensitive bloke isn't he? Can't put up with someone saying a 30 second thankyou to God during a victory speech. Not a very tolerant person is he? ;D

You're right Flanders, it is your fault.

I wouldnt give anyone a second to ramble any religous guff in sport let alone an entire 30 seconds.

Keep religion out of sport. We dont need it ruining anything else.

 

[poppa x]

Keep religion out of sport. We dont need it ruining anything else.

A bit harsh Red. Religion has done a wonderful job in Northern Ireland, the Balkans and the Middle East to name just a few.

 

[Disco08]

You're right Flanders

Best nickname ever, lol.

 

[Redford]

Keep religion out of sport. We dont need it ruining anything else.

A bit harsh Red. Religion has done a wonderful job in Northern Ireland, the Balkans and the Middle East to name just a few.

Yep. Its going down a treat on the Indian/Pakistan border too. Not to mention Fiji, Africa and Sri Lanka.

 

[jayfox]

Keep religion out of sport. We dont need it ruining anything else.

A bit harsh Red. Religion has done a wonderful job in Northern Ireland, the Balkans and the Middle East to name just a few.

Yep. Its going down a treat on the Indian/Pakistan border too. Not to mention Fiji, Africa and Sri Lanka.

And in the Red Cross, World Vision, Compassion, The Salvation Army, St Vincent de Paul, Christian Children's fund. It cuts both ways. I have acknowledged that people use religion evilly for their own selfish cause and yet I haven't heard a single person say that Christian's are responsible for many ongoing great works in many of the world's great charities. Why can't we have a balanced arguement?

 

[poppa x]

If people are using religions for their own selfish ends then all religions obviously have a problem with recalcitrants and they need to sort it out. So far, over 2,000 years they've failed. Personally I don't think you can separate religion from its practioners and to do so is a cop out.

So I'll accept the positive religous charities argument if the religous types will take ownership of the evil done in the name of peoples gods. And not just the christian version. All gods.

 

[Disco08]

Of course christians are responsible for many of today's great charities. Do you know how much money the catholic church has?

This is too cynical a view though, and takes alot away from the grass roots people who devote so much time to helping others, christian or not. However, I don't think these people's willingness to give of themselves is necessarily because of their faith. I think warm heartedness and generosity are a part of who you are, christian or not.

 

[Michael]

Not all charities are based on religion
Not all people that do great works are religious.

 

[evo]

If people are using religions for their own selfish ends then all religions obviously have a problem with recalcitrants and they need to sort it out. So far, over 2,000 years they've failed. Personally I don't think you can separate religion from its practioners and to do so is a cop out.

This is a hard ask on your part poppa.

How do you expect the church to sort out the recalcitrant Bush(as an example)How can the catholic church control the IRA,the church the tammil Tigers.

People in search of power will always appropriate respected instituitions or ideas if it offers a means to an end.

this is not restricted to religion.

Appeals to nationalism-Hitler

Appeals to the benefits of communism/socialism-Stalin

etc.

 

[jayfox]

If people are using religions for their own selfish ends then all religions obviously have a problem with recalcitrants and they need to sort it out. So far, over 2,000 years they've failed. Personally I don't think you can separate religion from its practioners and to do so is a cop out.

So I'll accept the positive religous charities argument if the religous types will take ownership of the evil done in the name of peoples gods. And not just the christian version. All gods.

As I have always said, you can't blame God for things that people have done wrong in His name when he has clearly instructed us to do otherwise. It's like you starting up a company with the aim of helping people and me, claiming to work for you when I really don't, going and committing a whole heap of crimes and saying that I only did it because you told me to. People would start saying "Well, what kind of a bloke is this Poppa X if he instucted him to do that? He must be a bad bloke." Hardly fair on you when you were only trying to help people.

Of course christians are responsible for many of today's great charities. Do you know how much money the catholic church has?

No, as I am not a catholic but I have heard that it is an astronomical amount. Again, if that is the case then they should be giving far more of it away.

This is too cynical a view though, and takes alot away from the grass roots people who devote so much time to helping others, christian or not. However, I don't think these people's willingness to give of themselves is necessarily because of their faith. I think warm heartedness and generosity are a part of who you are, christian or not.

True many non-christians do work in charities, however, it is an undeniable fact that the great majority of charities were founded by Christians, certainly all of the ones I have listed and many. many more!

 

[Disco08]

Out of interest what wildlife/environmental charities is christianity responsible for?

 

[poppa x]

gooses

 

[jayfox]

Out of interest what wildlife/environmental charities is christianity responsible for?

Two that I immeadiately know of, although I'm sure there are more

The Anglican Society for the Welfare of Animals

and the RSPCA. Here's a little info if you are interested -

On the evening of the 16th June 1824, a number of distinguished people, including William Wilberforce, assembled at the 'Old Slaughters' Coffee House' in London. They were called together by the Rev. Arthur Broome, a London vicar to form a society which would support the working of Richard Martin's Act. This Act was passed on the 22nd July 1822 and was against cruelty to farm animals, particularly cattle. The first animal welfare Society in any Country had been 'born'.

 

[tigersnake]

I like that you stick to your guns and don't take heated discussion personally Jfox. The day I become a believer is the day the big fella shows up on my doorstep with some of the good stuff, dunno what it would be, but I know it would be good stuff. Even if he did show up, I'd grill him about why he lets so much bad stuff happen to good people. Anyway, I half remember this old religeous joke:

a bloke is about to jump off a bridge to end it all when another bloke happens by;

'hey fella, it can't be that bad'

'nuh, life is stuffed, I'm going out' says the jumper.

'are you a believer? Gad can't have it this way"

'Yes, I'm a methodist'

'wow, so am I, west side or east side?'

'west'

'wow, so am I, westside revivalist or westside christadelphian'

'revivalist'

'wow, so am I, 42 st Church or 48th street?'

'48th'

'DIE HERETIC' yells the bloke and pushes him off the bridge.

 

[jayfox]

I like that you stick to your guns and don't take heated discussion personally Jfox. The day I become a believer is the day the big fella shows up on my doorstep with some of the good stuff, dunno what it would be, but I know it would be good stuff. Even if he did show up, I'd grill him about why he lets so much bad stuff happen to good people. Anyway, I half remember this old religeous joke:

a bloke is about to jump off a bridge to end it all when another bloke happens by;

'hey fella, it can't be that bad'

'nuh, life is stuffed, I'm going out' says the jumper.

'are you a believer? Gad can't have it this way"

'Yes, I'm a methodist'

'wow, so am I, west side or east side?'

'west'

'wow, so am I, westside revivalist or westside christadelphian'

'revivalist'

'wow, so am I, 42 st Church or 48th street?'

'48th'

'DIE HERETIC' yells the bloke and pushes him off the bridge.

That is pretty funny but is a sad reflection on how some in the church have acted against God's will.