SORRY-A 5 letter word thats made history

[Tigers of Old]

The Government should NEVER be afraid to act on behalf of children and the safety of any child should be the overriding factor always.

Fair enough Livers.
I guess all children's situations should be on a case by case basis.
I wouldn't want to put any child in harm's way.

 

[Liverpool]

Why do you assume this? As you've pointed out there are plenty of indigenous people making a go of their lives, who don't abuse children and who are currently acting as foster parents for other indigenous kids in need of help. The above sentence sounds as though you think the whole indigenous community is made up of the stereotypical child abusing dole bludger you seem to think represents these people best. This is a completely defeatist attitude and only proves further how little respect you have for these members of Australian society.

I don't think the whole Aboriginal community is made of up child abusing dole bludgers.
All I said was that it was deemed that removing Aboriginal children away from their community (even though they were being abused) was disrespecting their culture, hence the term "cultural identity"....and hence why we see children sent back into the mire.
This was a JOINT decision by the Government with consultation from Aboriginal groups and communities....however it seems the Government has to say 'sorry'...I wonder how many Aboriginal groups are going to say sorry to these kids they have helped leave in abusive situations?
And you think I have little respct for Aborigines?
Read some of the things that go on in some of these communities and tell me how much respect they show themselves and their families before coming on here having a crack at myself.
With any other child in Australia, a 'community' would have no say in what the Government's role is....yet it seems that when something simple like getting a child out of an abusive environment happens to an Aboriginal child....it seems to get bogged down in red tape due to too many chiefs and not anough Indians, all too scared to make a mistake for fear of not respecting a culture or being labelled racist.
I say stuff that....get the child out so it has a chance at an education and life.

Agreed. Government leaders need to sit down with indigenous representatives and make it clear that while their culture and traditions will be respected it will not be at the expense of a single Australian citizens welfare, nor will it be able to be used as an excuse for breaking Australian law. Give them self determination on a local level and assistance where it is needed (primarily health and education IMO) but make it clear that child abuse (among other things, but in particular) will be something which no Australian citizen will receive leniency for as they have in the past.

If Aborigines want to practice their culture and traditions, that is their business.....but NO NO NO...the Government's role isn't worrying about respecting cultures and traditions. It is about getting this race up to the same level as every other Australian.
If that means stepping on a few toes to do it, then so be it. The time for pandering is over. Self-determination of any kind is over...we have had too many Aboriginal community groups and factions sticking their noses into situations, maybe with good intentions, but all it does is make things full of red-tape and *smile*, to be honest. It is the Government's role to make the rules and the laws that govern ALL Australians and they should do their job.
Aboriginal kids being abused treated differently to every other Australian child in a similar situation a perfect example.
Aboriginal groups have had too much to say, the Government have listened too much, and we end up with the disaster we have now.
The Government have the laws and rules already in place for every other Australian...all it has to do is have the balls to enforce it onto the Aboriginal population, regardless of the culture and heritage.
Look...we have people from all over the world here....all from different cultures, religions, and backgrounds.
we don't pander to their whims.
I expect them to come here and abide by the laws and rules of this country, but it is very hard to expect migrants to do that when we have a different set of rules and laws for a minority group.

Agreed again. Welfare handouts are obviously not the answer. Things such as dedicated health centres or additional education, though you may construe them as racist, are vitally important.

Disco,
Usually I don't see much of ACA cause of work, but by chance I saw this story tonight....found it on the web:

http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/

(click on "Fitzroy Crossing 14/02/2008") on the right hand side of the screen and watch the vision.)

What other group has had the privilege of using taxi-cabs, paid for by tax-payers, to drive hundreds of kilometres loaded up with booze and used as a 'mobile booze delivery service'?
This is the sort of thing that gets people wound up about this race and how "sorry' won't change a bloody thing until all these perks are wiped out and they are treated the same as any other Australian out there.

P.S: Mal Brough is SPOT ON in this clip!!!! :clap

 

[Disco08]

Totally agree with that point. It's one thing to target areas of concern with extra assistance but that sort of stuff is ludicrous.

I don't think the whole Aboriginal community is made of up child abusing dole bludgers.
All I said was that it was deemed that removing Aboriginal children away from their community (even though they were being abused) was disrespecting their culture, hence the term "cultural identity"....and hence why we see children sent back into the mire.
This was a JOINT decision by the Government with consultation from Aboriginal groups and communities....however it seems the Government has to say 'sorry'...I wonder how many Aboriginal groups are going to say sorry to these kids they have helped leave in abusive situations?
And you think I have little respct for Aborigines?
Read some of the things that go on in some of these communities and tell me how much respect they show themselves before coming on here having a crack at myself.
With any other child in Australia, an 'community' would have no say in what the Government's role is....yet it seems that when something simple like getting a child out of an abusive environment happens to an Aboriginal child....it seems to get bogged down in red tape due to too many chiefs and not anough Indians, all too scared to make a mistake for fear of not respecting a culture or being labelled racist.
I say stuff that....get the child out so it has a chance at an education and life.

Again, agreed with the last point and agreed that bureaucratic bungling is costing many children dearly.

I had a crack at you because your last post (the part that I quoted) made it look as if you assumed that the only way for indigenous children who are abused to move forward is to be placed in a non-indigenous part of society.

 

[Liverpool]

I had a crack at you because your last post (the part that I quoted) made it look as if you assumed that the only way for indigenous children who are abused to move forward is to be placed in a non-indigenous part of society.

Not at all.
If Aboriginal families who have a clean slate criminally and the resources to care and nurture an Aboriginal child being abused in an Aborgiinal community and they can do that, then that would be great!
But if there isn't, the child should not be left until they find an Aboriginal family...the child's welfare comes first and if that means they have to go and live with a white/Asian/African,etc,etc family, then so be it.
Like i said...."culture and tradition" come a very distant second to the welfare of the child.

And I'll even go one step further and say that if a white family is abusing their child and the only family available to look after this child is an Aboriginal family, then that is where the child goes.

Racial and cultural differences and trying to protect traditions and heritages should not override a child's protection and welfare. Full stop.

 

[Disco08]

Cool, totally agree.

Do you think it would be a good idea to set up something like cultural centres where indigenous kids fostered out to non-indigenous families could continue their education in matters specific to their heritage?

 

[Six Pack]

Sixpack coming on under his many different aliases pushing the "yes to sorry" button

What point do u keep trying to make with this? I dont have 'aliases.'

This has been explained time and time and time again.

Are u so thick that you dont understand it?

For the last time: I have been banned quite a few times and on quite a few occasions i have returned. To get back in i have had to change my user name because the other ones have been blocked.

I dont hide behind aliases, its the way the software works.

rosy, long suffering on all of this, has confirmed this.

What possible point are u trying to make? or is it just cheap point scoring?

 

[Freezer]

Bloody hell - a Disco/Liverpool love-in. :-X

(Pretty good points made all around.)

 

[Rosy]

Sixpack coming on under his many different aliases pushing the "yes to sorry" button doesn't give the poll here much credibility Disco...

Give it a miss will you Chelse :-X Liverpool...and readjust the figures to only 9 against.

 

[ssstone]

im sorry too. sorry that little kevvy ducked and dodged this issue only 1 week out of the election as he knew it would hurt him at the polls,he wouldnt answer any questions on the subject,im also sorry for the misguided morons that think this will not result in a flood of half assed claims that only the lawyers will make a fortune on.a very sorry day indeed.

 

[Liverpool]

Do you think it would be a good idea to set up something like cultural centres where indigenous kids fostered out to non-indigenous families could continue their education in matters specific to their heritage?

No.
And why I say that, is that education is supposed to give ALL children, regardless of culture/heritage/history a foundation to go further in life.
And that means getting the basics of English (how making Aboriginal kids learn english is labelled 'racist' is staggering! ) so they can communicate at an intellect that will give them an opportunity to live a fruitful life.
Learning maths, science, geography, computers, and history at high school also gives a foundation to work with.

And if as part of history classes, a chapter of the curriculum focuses on Aboriginal history and how they lived, hunted, etc, etc...that is fine.
But I think if you start customising different curricula because one child is Aboriginal and some other kids are non-Aboriginal, then that is again asking for trouble.

I think especially at primary school and high school, the basic curriculum should be the same for all students.
If later in high school, the curriculum allows, say "Aboriginal languages" or "Aboriginal history", as elective subjects...I also have no problem with that. But I think as core subjects that MUST be learnt, (like english, maths, etc) then there should be no customisation of curriculum to suit different cultures....whether these kids live with non-Aboriginal families or not.

 

[Liverpool]

Wow! Gee! Didn't see that one coming!
Who would have guessed? :


Victoria's first stolen generation compensation bid
February 15, 2008 10:46am
Up to 40 indigenous Australians are preparing compensation claims against the Victorian government following this week's official apology.
The news comes after this morning's revelation in the Herald Sun that Victorian man Neville Austin, 44, is planning to launch Victoria's first stolen generation claim.
His solicitors have briefed barrister Jack Rush QC, who was part of the legal team that won a $4 billion payout from James Hardie Industries for former workers exposed to lethal doses of asbestos.
But the head of Stolen Generations Victoria and Mr Austin's cousin, Lyn Austin, said while she could not comment on Mr Austin's case, dozens more were preparing similar claims.
"I cannot make comment on that case at all, but ... I do know that there are another 30 or 40 that are going to be doing a civil action claim,'' she told ABC Radio in Melbourne.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23216136-661,00.html

 

[Tigers of Old]

Batten down the hatches...I hope it's water tight Kevin.

I wonder how many of these claims will be using public prosecutors?

 

[tigersnake]

What is the problem with compo?

If somebody experiences injustice or negligence that results in suffering, in our system you can be due for compo.

You go to Slater and Gordon or whoever, make you case and see how you go, well if you're white at least.

So here we have reports and evidence showing authotities were negligent and the actions caused suffering. On the record as parliamntary reports. Yet for some reasong they aren't deserving of compo.

Why? Because they are black? Because there are too many cases? Thats not their problem.

Every year our government, under Howard at least, shovelled billions out the door to wealthy white people who voted for him.

Private health care subsidy (around 4-5 bill a year)
First home buyers grants (a lot, not means tested)
Bay bonus (not means tested, Malcolm Turnbill would get it)

Thers more, the huge rise in private school susidies, tax cuts to wealthy people, 30 odd bill.

Point here isn't whether these handouts are right or wrong, point is the govt hands out billions every year to people who mostly don't really need it. Nobody bats an eyelid.

But give an amout with a 'b' in front of it to a bunch of blacks, who actually experinced terrible things through no fault of their own which had terrible impacts, forget it brother.

Got me stuffed

 

[Willo]

Wow! Gee! Didn't see that one coming!
Who would have guessed? :


Victoria's first stolen generation compensation bid
February 15, 2008 10:46am
Up to 40 indigenous Australians are preparing compensation claims against the Victorian government following this week's official apology.
The news comes after this morning's revelation in the Herald Sun that Victorian man Neville Austin, 44, is planning to launch Victoria's first stolen generation claim.
His solicitors have briefed barrister Jack Rush QC, who was part of the legal team that won a $4 billion payout from James Hardie Industries for former workers exposed to lethal doses of asbestos.
But the head of Stolen Generations Victoria and Mr Austin's cousin, Lyn Austin, said while she could not comment on Mr Austin's case, dozens more were preparing similar claims.
"I cannot make comment on that case at all, but ... I do know that there are another 30 or 40 that are going to be doing a civil action claim,'' she told ABC Radio in Melbourne.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23216136-661,00.html

sorry Livers, but now it's up to 100 are interested claimants, in Victoria. Other claimants have sought between $350,000 and $525,000. Bruce Trevorrow received $775,000 for "long term depression".
Some states have set up funds..
Tasmania $5m for surviving "stolen generations" members and the children of those who have died.
WA will set up a fund for those abused in state care, including "stolen generations" members.
Qld and NSW have rejected the idea.
So now it's not just members of the "stolen generations" but their children, if these members have passed, that will/are seeking to be eligible for compensation.
I thought it would have stopped when the person passed on.
As previously posted, great for Rudd to apologise but he made sure there were to be no comebacks on the Feds. States to shoulder the compensation costs.
Those that indeed suffered, should be helped. Those that didn't should have to pat their own costs if their claim fails. I just hope there aren't too many jumping on the 'gravy train" that have baseless claims.
It sure didn't take too long, that's for sure.
Say "sorry" well and good, but I reckon this would come as no surprise to people, maybe some.
Naive to think it wouldn't happen.

 

[Mr Pumblechook]

What is the problem with compo?

If somebody experiences injustice or negligence that results in suffering, in our system you can be due for compo.

You go to Slater and Gordon or whoever, make you case and see how you go, well if you're white at least.

So here we have reports and evidence showing authotities were negligent and the actions caused suffering. On the record as parliamntary reports. Yet for some reasong they aren't deserving of compo.

Why? Because they are black? Because there are too many cases? Thats not their problem.

Every year our government, under Howard at least, shovelled billions out the door to wealthy white people who voted for him.

Private health care subsidy (around 4-5 bill a year)
First home buyers grants (a lot, not means tested)
Bay bonus (not means tested, Malcolm Turnbill would get it)

Thers more, the huge rise in private school susidies, tax cuts to wealthy people, 30 odd bill.

Point here isn't whether these handouts are right or wrong, point is the govt hands out billions every year to people who mostly don't really need it. Nobody bats an eyelid.

But give an amout with a 'b' in front of it to a bunch of blacks, who actually experinced terrible things through no fault of their own which had terrible impacts, forget it brother.

Got me stuffed

Hear hear. :clap

 

[Willo]

Hear hear. :clap

Wait until the states start to raise taxes to cover this. Remember, its not just victims/members of the "stolen Generations" but their children will be aiming to claim as well.
Will see in years to come when taxes start to bite, how many will be cheering.
If a victim/member has a legitimate claim, fair enough. Why would compo be paid to their descendents. w How will they claim mental anguish/severe depression on behalf of their ancestors?
ie if someone had a car accident and had a claim pending for injuries and medical expenses, but then unfortunately died (not from injuries sustained), would the courts pay compensation to the deceased family? I wouldn't think they would. Wonder how this is different?

 

[Disco08]

Australia has a public debt of over $580M. Do you really think $1M is going to cause any noticeable change in the average person's tax rates?

I can't figure out why people who are calling for all Australians to be treated equally are whinging about any possible compensation claims anyway. These claims are being made under the laws of this country so all they are doing is exercising their rights. There are plenty of retrospective punitive damages cases happening all the time, why should they go by unmentioned but the Stolen Generation claims be so vocally condemned?

 

[Disco08]

No.
And why I say that, is that education is supposed to give ALL children, regardless of culture/heritage/history a foundation to go further in life.
And that means getting the basics of English (how making Aboriginal kids learn english is labelled 'racist' is staggering! ) so they can communicate at an intellect that will give them an opportunity to live a fruitful life.
Learning maths, science, geography, computers, and history at high school also gives a foundation to work with.

And if as part of history classes, a chapter of the curriculum focuses on Aboriginal history and how they lived, hunted, etc, etc...that is fine.
But I think if you start customising different curricula because one child is Aboriginal and some other kids are non-Aboriginal, then that is again asking for trouble.

I think especially at primary school and high school, the basic curriculum should be the same for all students.
If later in high school, the curriculum allows, say "Aboriginal languages" or "Aboriginal history", as elective subjects...I also have no problem with that. But I think as core subjects that MUST be learnt, (like english, maths, etc) then there should be no customisation of curriculum to suit different cultures....whether these kids live with non-Aboriginal families or not.

Nah sorry, I mean something outside of normal schooling. Surely these kids shouldn't miss out on learning their own culture because they were abused and fostered out to non-indigenous families? It's really not something extra either, at least no more so than state funded Sunday schools or other external type religious classes.

 

[mld]

No-one has explained the legal mechanism by which a parliamentary apology can be used in lieu of evidence. Conservatives have been pushing the myth that an apology equals compensation, the lawyers are going to be the only winners out of this myth I'm afraid.

 

[Liverpool]

What is the problem with compo?
If somebody experiences injustice or negligence that results in suffering, in our system you can be due for compo.
You go to Slater and Gordon or whoever, make you case and see how you go, well if you're white at least.
So here we have reports and evidence showing authotities were negligent and the actions caused suffering. On the record as parliamntary reports. Yet for some reasong they aren't deserving of compo.
Why? Because they are black? Because there are too many cases? Thats not their problem.
Every year our government, under Howard at least, shovelled billions out the door to wealthy white people who voted for him.

And you have the audacity to call me a bigot and a racist?

You're the perfect example of what I have been on about with a persecution complex, chip on the shoulder, 'poor me because I'm black' pathetic mentality that is rife with Aborigines.
Straight away you play the old race card...."Why? Because they are black?" :

You asked what is wrong with compo?

I'll tell you....it has NOTHING to do with that they are black...I couldn't give a fat rat's clacker if they were pink with blue hair!

The problem with these people going for compo is if they had EVIDENCE that they deserve compo, then why didn't they go to court with their EVIDENCE, FACTS, and PROOF and let the court decide if they deserve compo or not?
Trevorrow went with his evidence and won.

The thing is Tigersnake....these so-called 'stolen generation' have evidence as flimsy as a paper plane in a thunderstorm....and have waited, and waited, and waited (and hounded, and hounded, and hounded) the Government to say sorry as that is the only way they can build a cse to win $$$.

Like I have said for 2 years on this forum..."sorry" will just give the self-proclaimed 'stolen generation' the leverage to go for the $$$.....I have been labelled names...but again, I have been proven right.

The problem I have with it is the tax-payers will be paying for a fraud.....and all caused by a weak government and a bunch of moralistic fools who have taken the country up the garden path, with a bunch of people ready to rush to the bank.

yes....."sorry".....a sorry day for all.