SORRY-A 5 letter word thats made history

[Liverpool]

See, it comes back every time to the fact that you hold the indigenous australians in very low esteem, so anything positive that happens you have to bag it.
Try taking a deep breath and thinking about whats happened. Try opening yr heart and try having some empathy.
yr continual negative bleatings are offensive, tiresome and pathetic.

Sixpack,
Your bleatings about "empathy" are what is pathetic around here.
we'll see how much empathy mansell, dodson, and o'donohue show in the next 6-12 months mate....and when they are going for money we'll see if you are bleating about the 'negative money' and 'compo scare tactics' then.

Secondly, it is not I that hold the Aborigines in low esteem...they do it themselves.
They play a victim/persecution mentality when it suits and now, having had the word 'sorry' muttered for all to see, there will be no excuse for failing.
i WANT to see Aborgiinal kids go to school....I want to see kids live in safe environments, I want to see them giving the drink/drugs away and getting a job...and for too long the word 'sorry' has been used an excuse for failing.
Well, that should be no more now...should it?

 

[Hayfever]

hayfever,
I'm not one for "symbolic" rubbish....I want to see action.
People can go around saying 'sorry' and treating Aborigines like some eternal victim and the problem is, that this has been happening for so long now regarding welfare and other initiatives, that they themselves have no dignity as a race.
We go around apologising, sorrying, handing out cash left right and centre...as well as having separate rules, laws, welfare for Aborigines....segregating them for decades as different from every other Australian....and they think they are losers. This is why we see so many of them longing around drinking, taking drugs, in trouble with the law, and abusing their own children.

Rosy can moan about me saying it as 'despicable'...but this is what has been happening out there for years.

the sooner all this 'sorry' stuff is now swept under the carpet and we treat Aborigines the same as every other Australian, regardless of all this 'cultural identity' crap, then the better they will be and feel as a race.

Symbolic apologies are all fine and dandy...but out there in the communities, right NOW...tonight...what has changed?
Stuff all!

It's pointless arguing with you because I doubt you will ever see the key issue. Until now no-one has officially said Sorry as a nation to it's indigenous people.......... that was the whole point of today. And yes, all those other problems have simply gotten worse over the years as a result.

When a family has serious internal arguments(say parents/kids, or siblings) it is almost impossible to move forward until they sit down, apologise, sort out the major issues etc. This is the same.... and we are supposed to be one nation, not us and them.

 

[Six Pack]

Yr a sad case, Livers.

Try walking in someone else's shoes for a change.

 

[Liverpool]

It's pointless arguing with you because I doubt you will ever see the key issue. Until now no-one has officially said Sorry as a nation to it's indigenous people.......... that was the whole point of today. And yes, all those other problems have simply gotten worse over the years as a result.
When a family has serious internal arguments(say parents/kids, or siblings) it is almost impossible to move forward until they sit down, apologise, sort out the major issues etc. This is the same.... and we are supposed to be one nation, not us and them.

I can understand Aborigines being bitter at white people and wanting a sorry....whether it was Poms, French, Yanks, or whoever came here and took over, the Aborigines would be against them. I'll cop that one on the chin.

However, I do not accept and totally reject that the Aboriginal people of today who act terribly towards people of their own communities, can use a lack of 'sorry' from the white people as a reason for their goings on.
White people or the Government saying 'sorry' should have no bearing whatsoever on Aborigines going to school and getting an education, getting a job, or them taking drugs and drinking.
If they had any dignity or self-respect towards themselves, their community, and their race...they would not allow this symbolic gesture (or lack of one) over the years to stop them moving forward.
For that, their elders should be apologising to the younger generations.

 

[Willo]

I can understand Aborigines being bitter at white people and wanting a sorry....whether it was Poms, French, Yanks, or whoever came here and took over, the Aborigines would be against them. I'll cop that one on the chin.

However, I do not accept and totally reject that the Aboriginal people of today who act terribly towards people of their own communities, can use a lack of 'sorry' from the white people as a reason for their goings on.
White people or the Government saying 'sorry' should have no bearing whatsoever on Aborigines going to school and getting an education, getting a job, or them taking drugs and drinking.
If they had any dignity or self-respect towards themselves, their community, and their race...they would not allow this symbolic gesture (or lack of one) over the years to stop them moving forward.
For that, their elders should be apologising to the younger generations.

There are a lot of wrongs that need righting, I'm sure most would agree on that

 

[Liverpool]

There are a lot of wrongs that need righting, I'm sure most would agree on that

Agree.

'Sorry" is done and dusted (until the compo cases)....but we'll see what happens.
I'll be waiting and ready to post as soon as they start, don't you worry about that...

So what next?
Sorry was supposed to be the "first step"....now what...life continues on as it has been?

 

[biglinds]

I was overjoyed at the long awaited apology today. As someone who has spent years in the desert of WA and as one who counts indigenous people as my closest friends, I know that this has affected many of my friends deeply.

Indigenous people can spot a phoney real quickly and what they saw and sensed today in Kevin Rudd was sincerity. To see cynical, hard bitten ,deeply scarred indigenous men with tears pouring down their faces spoke volumes for what this apology meant to them.

We can be cynical about compensation,but I would imagine that the main bulk of Indigenous Australia were not thinking about money today ,they were just glad to hear that 5 letter word spoken by our prime minister as a first step in healing the pain only a few of us could understand.

 

[Disco08]

Funnily enough the results of this poll, despite having a small amount of voters, are exactly in line with other polls conducted on this issue. So Liverpool, unless you're standing in downtown Narre Warren I think it's safe to assume you're part of the vocal minority here.

 

[Liverpool]

Funnily enough the results of this poll, despite having a small amount of voters, are exactly in line with other polls conducted on this issue. So Liverpool, unless you're standing in downtown Narre Warren I think it's safe to assume you're part of the vocal minority here.

Sixpack coming on under his many different aliases pushing the "yes to sorry" button doesn't give the poll here much credibility Disco... :hihi
And even I am in the minority, I stand by my opinion, and we'll see who is right later in the year when the push for compo starts, won't we?

We can be cynical about compensation,but I would imagine that the main bulk of Indigenous Australia were not thinking about money today ,they were just glad to hear that 5 letter word spoken by our prime minister as a first step in healing the pain only a few of us could understand.

Maybe you are right Biglinds....but I think many Australians have a right to be cynical and wary of this apology when Aboriginal groups leading the charge for 'sorry' have mentioned compensation and listed demands. It has been mentioned more than once that 'sorry' means nothing without financial compensation....hence the cynicism.

It is all very nice getting involved in the short-term emotion of people crying yesterday...but let's see what the long term ramifications of what happened yesterday will be on Aborigines and Australians in general....that is when we can fully determine whether 'sorry' was worth it or not.

"Sorry" is purely a symbolic gesture (and maybe some leverage for people who want to go down the legal compensation path).

* It hasn't changed the lifestyle of the Aborigines which are stunting their life expectancy. Only an enforcement of laws making Aboriginal kids go to school like every other Australian child, so they get educated, so they can get a job and lead a better lifestyle, will the overall life expectancy of this race improve....not a 'sorry' and a few tears.

* It hasn't changed the abuse of Aboriginal children by relatives or people from their communities. Only an enforcement of equal rules allowing Aboriginal children to be removed and placed in foster care, like any other Australian child being abused...will protect these kids. Not 'cultural identity'...not sorry...and not tears.

* It hasn't changed drinking/drug abuse by Aborigines. Again, only enforcement of laws making children attend school....making people on the dole work for it and gain some sort of trade experience, will this type of abuse start to recede.....not sorry, and not tears.

Only POSITIVE ACTION will change the Aboriginal plight.....not sorries, tears, compo, and other victim-oriented initiatives.

Let's treat the Aborigines the same as the rest of us....include them in everything as equal...because now we have said 'sorry' we're supposed to be UNITED now, right?

 

[Rosy]

Livers things like mis-treated kids and addressing education, beginning at kindergarten level, were all mentioned. Get your "sorry" blinkers off and look at all that was mentioned rather than just one word. Did you actually listen to everything Kev had to say or are you just mouthing off in ignorance?

 

[Liverpool]

Livers things like mis-treated kids and addressing education, beginning at kindergarten level, were all mentioned. Get your "sorry" blinkers off and look at all that was mentioned rather than just one word. Did you actually listen to everything Kev had to say or are you just mouthing off in ignorance?

Kevin07 (Dudd08? :hihi) can 'mention' all these 'despicable' acts in his phoney apology all he likes.
But "sorry" and apologies aren't going to change anything and neither will mentioning it....only ACTION will change things.

And with action, I don't mean a whole lot of expensive initiatives aimed at only this race....and more throwing money down the drain that had been going on for decades, which has got us where exactly?

I mean real action....get hard on parents not forcing their kids to go to school, as the younger generation is what is going to come through and show us which was the Aboriginal race is going....take kids away from area where they are being neglected and abused regardless of 'cultural identity'......the list goes on.
THIS is the only way to start cleaning up the communities, not a load of hocus pocus apologies and other mumbo jumbo words of self importance to inflate the egos of a few politicians.

I said the same thing under Howard's reign and I'll say it again under Rudd's reign.....its time to stop pandering and treating the Aboriginal race with kid gloves for fear of being labelled racist....and its time to stop treating them with the victim mentality that is prevalent with this race...and start treating them the same as you would any other Australian out there.

 

[AngryAnt]

Livers should really get a job. He obviously has way too much time on his hands.

 

[Liverpool]

Livers should really get a job. He obviously has way too much time on his hands.

I see you are on here too...so...'pot kettle black' was it?

 

[Tigers of Old]

....take kids away from area where they are being neglected and abused regardless of 'cultural identity'......

Umm..we've just said sorry for the stolen generations Livers.
Do you want us to be saying it again?

 

[Rosy]

Livers should really get a job. He obviously has way too much time on his hands.

Although Livers didn't answer my question I suspect he didn't have the time to actually listen to Kev's address.

Not sure if this link will work but it's worth a listen for those who haven't heard it yet. I think it takes approx 30 minutes.

This link is the Federal Opposition's response to the Government apology.

 

[Liverpool]

Umm..we've just said sorry for the stolen generations Livers.
Do you want us to be saying it again?

Well, surely children should be removed and left removed from a negectful/abusive environment regardless of Rudd saying 'sorry' or not.
The Government should NEVER be afraid to act on behalf of children and the safety of any child should be the overriding factor always.

The only people suffering under the joint effort of Governments and Aboriginal groups when they mooted this "cultural identity" rubbish, are the Aboriginal children themselves, who are either being left in these circumstances due to people being too scared about creating a new 'stolen generation' furore.....OR, they are being removed and then sent back into this abusive environment under the guise of "cultural identity" (see girl pack-raped at Aurukun as a prime example of this).

Either way, we will be saying 'sorry' in the future.....either because we are removing kids for their welfare (new stolen generation) or because we have ignored these children for fear of creating a new stolen generation ("unstolen generation").

Remember this article from 2006?:

A preoccupation with not repeating the mistakes of the past has made victims of both indigenous and non-indigenous children. It has consigned untold numbers of innocents, the Un-Stolen Generation, to lives that can only be described as hell on Earth.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/miranda-devine/suffering-of-unstolen-generation/2006/07/22/1153166631227.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap2

Who will say sorry to these kids?

 

[Disco08]

Two wrongs don't make a right.

But you and I do agree on this point. Cultural identity is all well and good but it should never take precedence over any person's wellbeing. I don't however see why indigenous culture can't be respected at the same time as these problems are being addressed.

 

[Willo]

Two wrongs don't make a right.

But you and I do agree on this point. Cultural identity is all well and good but it should never take precedence over any person's wellbeing. I don't however see why indigenous culture can't be respected at the same time as these problems are being addressed.

fair call Disco

 

[Liverpool]

But you and I do agree on this point. Cultural identity is all well and good but it should never take precedence over any person's wellbeing. I don't however see why indigenous culture can't be respected at the same time as these problems are being addressed.

Yep...that is fine...but how?
How can you protect Aboriginal kids, with the best (and only) way of ensuring their safety is total removal from the Aboriginal community...but respect their culture?
I think protection of culture comes a distant second to the well-being of the child and if that means the Government risk creating another 'stolen generation'...well, I'd rather be guilty of that than have a Government guilty of ignoring their plight because they are too scared to act for fear of being labelled racist, bigoted, or stealing children and hence creating an "unstolen generation" in the meantime.

For me, the time for words is over now...it is time for action and start getting stuck into some of the inequalities that are abound, all supposedly helping Aboriginal people, but in reality, are causing more trouble for them.

 

[Disco08]

How can you protect Aboriginal kids, with the best (and only) way of ensuring their safety is total removal from the Aboriginal community...but respect their culture?

Why do you assume this? As you've pointed out there are plenty of indigenous people making a go of their lives, who don't abuse children and who are currently acting as foster parents for other indigenous kids in need of help. The above sentence sounds as though you think the whole indigenous community is made up of the stereotypical child abusing dole bludger you seem to think represents these people best. This is a completely defeatist attitude and only proves further how little respect you have for these members of Australian society.

If no indigenous families are available for a child to be fostered to, they can still study their own culture and respect their cultures traditions while living with a non-indigenous family can't they?

I think protection of culture comes a distant second to the well-being of the child and if that means the Government risk creating another 'stolen generation'...well, I'd rather be guilty of that than have a Government guilty of ignoring their plight because they are too scared to act for fear of being labelled racist, bigoted, or stealing children and hence creating an "unstolen generation" in the meantime.

Agreed. Government leaders need to sit down with indigenous representatives and make it clear that while their culture and traditions will be respected it will not be at the expense of a single Australian citizens welfare, nor will it be able to be used as an excuse for breaking Australian law. Give them self determination on a local level and assistance where it is needed (primarily health and education IMO) but make it clear that child abuse (among other things, but in particular) will be something which no Australian citizen will receive leniency for as they have in the past.

For me, the time for words is over now...it is time for action and start getting stuck into some of the inequalities that are abound, all supposedly helping Aboriginal people, but in reality, are causing more trouble for them.

Agreed again. Welfare handouts are obviously not the answer. Things such as dedicated health centres or additional education, though you may construe them as racist, are vitally important.