shaun hampson threads [merged]

[bullus_hit]

Sorry, you lost me. Grundy was at Collingwood last October, I meant going into the draft last year what was your stance on Hampson and on who/how we should address the ruck recruiting.

Definitely would not have spent a first rounder on McEvoy or Longer, and felt that Hampson was the right call under the circumstances. The do nothing approach was not an option given the uncertainty with Maric, we were interested in Nicholls but that turned out to be a dead end so Hampson was the next best alternative. Given all that has transpired I still think we made the right call in not targeting the other two. Most people were upset with spending a second rounder & not a third rounder, we got Gordon with our third so no major harm done. He may not be a superstar but he's better than Derrickx and is adequate cover in the event Maric goes down. The money doesn't bother me either, it's an extra 170k, no big deal.

I take it you preferred the do nothing approach, so hypothetically we now have no second ruckman. What's the next move?

 

[bullus_hit]

I don't remember having an opinion to be honest. Certainly wouldn't have entertained most of those options. Yes hindsight is a wonderful thing and that's all I've claimed, that in hindsight it looks like its been a bad decision. Complicated by the fact that Sydney, a very successful recruiting club, had no hesitation in using Derrickx as a backup ruck.

So in light of Maric's injury, you would have been prepared to go into the season with no first ruck?

 

[tigertim]

Definitely would not have spent a first rounder on McEvoy or Longer, and felt that Hampson was the right call under the circumstances. The do nothing approach was not an option given the uncertainty with Maric, we were interested in Nicholls but that turned out to be a dead end so Hampson was the next best alternative. Given all that has transpired I still think we made the right call in not targeting the other two. Most people were upset with spending a second rounder & not a third rounder, we got Gordon with our third so no major harm done. He may not be a superstar but he's better than Derrickx and is adequate cover in the event Maric goes down. The money doesn't bother me either, it's an extra 170k, no big deal.

I take it you preferred the do nothing approach, so hypothetically we now have no second ruckman. What's the next move?

You take it wrong, my stance, as previously mentioned was to get a state leaguer and rookie some more rucks.

 

[bullus_hit]

You take it wrong, my stance, as previously mentioned was to get a state leaguer and rookie some more rucks.

A state leaguer with pick 32? Which one/s were you keen on & who would you have sacrificed from our rookie picks?

 

[Knighta]

Whilst I think we paid the right amount the worrying issue is that we seemed to be caught with our pants down. McEvoy was seemingly a shock, Longer not going to Hawthorn another one. Conversely St Kilda orchaestrated a royal rooting of us by organising both of these trades.

 

[bullus_hit]

Whilst I think we paid the right amount the worrying issue is that we seemed to be caught with our pants down. McEvoy was seemingly a shock, Longer not going to Hawthorn another one. Conversely St Kilda orchaestrated a royal rooting of us by organising both of these trades.

We were interested in Longer but I think we dodged a bullet there, he would have cost us Lennon & I'm not sold that he'll be any better than Hampson.

 

[tigertim]

A state leaguer with pick 32? Which one/s were you keen on & who would you have sacrificed from our rookie picks?

No, sorry, I mustn't have made myself clear. I meant keep pick 28/32 and use a late one in the Nd as well as the rookie draft.

 

[bullus_hit]

No, sorry, I mustn't have made myself clear. I meant keep pick 28/32 and use a late one in the Nd as well as the rookie draft.

Ok, so we have Baulderstone, Brooksby, Robinson or Meese, which one would you have gone with?

 

[tigertim]

Definitely would not have spent a first rounder on McEvoy or Longer, and felt that Hampson was the right call under the circumstances. The do nothing approach was not an option given the uncertainty with Maric, we were interested in Nicholls but that turned out to be a dead end so Hampson was the next best alternative. Given all that has transpired I still think we made the right call in not targeting the other two. Most people were upset with spending a second rounder & not a third rounder, we got Gordon with our third so no major harm done. He may not be a superstar but he's better than Derrickx and is adequate cover in the event Maric goes down. The money doesn't bother me either, it's an extra 170k, no big deal.

I'm staggered you think $170k is no big deal. All I can say us thank god you're not in charge if the TPP. $170k paid for Ellis. Or Miles and Thomas.

If you honestly think paying $170k extra for Hampsons results over Derrickx results your effectively saying it's ok to pay $170k for an extra 9 hit outs a game. Extraordinary.

 

[tigertim]

Ok, so we have Baulderstone, Brooksby, Robinson or Meese, which one would you have gone with?

Probably Baulderstone.

 

[bullus_hit]

I'm staggered you think $170k is no big deal. All I can say us thank god you're not in charge if the TPP. $170k paid for Ellis. Or Miles and Thomas.

If you honestly think paying $170k extra for Hampsons results over Derrickx results your effectively saying it's ok to pay $170k for an extra 9 hit outs a game. Extraordinary.

Higher ceiling and better service to our mids is worth the coin. As I posted earlier, his form in the first 7 rounds was far superior to Derrickx best, that's what I'd be banking on. If he can't achieve that then clearly we've overpaid. Just have to wait & see I guess.

Probably Baulderstone.

Interesting article, boy was he big a few years ago.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/norwood-ruckman-sam-baulderstones-afl-hopes-grow-as-his-waistline-shrinks/story-fnii057l-1226755207404

 

[TigerMasochist]

I'm staggered you think $170k is no big deal. All I can say us thank god you're not in charge if the TPP. $170k paid for Ellis. Or Miles and Thomas.

If you honestly think paying $170k extra for Hampsons results over Derrickx results your effectively saying it's ok to pay $170k for an extra 9 hit outs a game. Extraordinary.

Geez, worried about 170K in a 10 mill player budget when we are already heavily paying front loaded contracts to both keep up with the " MINIMUM " required salary cap payment at the same time as making maximum future cap space to enable us to try n bribe a gun player from elsewhere.
Not sure the Hamster was an ideal pick up for us yet we needed a more likely option to cover for the Eevan than Orifice, purely on age and retention time on the list. Club wanted Ty to play more permanent key forward n had doubts about Griff's future so urgently needed some back up for big Eevan. With limited access to ready made rucks or even KPP type players all clubs in the market are bound to pay overs in the drafting lottery for " reasonable " cough, talent.
We've had pretty decent value from Eevan who was on a similar career path to the Hamster, n considering the fairly massive upheaval in the Hamsters personal life this year. I'm willing to cut the bloke a bit of slack in regard to his overall performance n future value n I've been fairly critical of what I've seen this year. Reckon we've simply grabbed a workmanlike back up ruck without paying much which will give us a needed bit of overlap time for Ty, Griff or even Beanie to mature n develop fully. Three over 200 cm mobile n skilled players ranging through 25 / 23 / 20 who could, would, should, might even form a ruck forward core for us over the next twelve years. Or earn us a couple of premium early draft picks from clubs lacking in this area.

 

[seven]

Well lets hope Hampson improves next season.
If he dishes up the same crap again don't we see him again.

 

[tigertim]

Higher ceiling and better service to our mids is worth the coin. As I posted earlier, his form in the first 7 rounds was far superior to Derrickx best, that's what I'd be banking on. If he can't achieve that then clearly we've overpaid. Just have to wait & see I guess.


Interesting article, boy was he big a few years ago.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/norwood-ruckman-sam-baulderstones-afl-hopes-grow-as-his-waistline-shrinks/story-fnii057l-1226755207404

Yeah, I'm guessing he,ll be the next "Mumford" , 3rd in the Margarey and 3rd best in the GF. I thought he might have been rookied last year but I'm certain he,ll get picked this time. (But then again I was certain Chris Cain was going to get drafted last year....)

 

[tigerlove]

So in light of Maric's injury, you would have been prepared to go into the season with no first ruck?

No I didn't say that. We had Big O as backup (he was elevated first round). We had Vickery. But all I am saying is in hindsight we would have been better to keep Derrickx and keep our pick 28 for a youngster (particularly since we chose mature age recruits with our later picks) and not tie up a list spot for 3 years at reasonably high pay. I don't know why this is so hard to understand that you need to keep putting words into my mouth to be honest.

 

[bullus_hit]

No I didn't say that. We had Big O as backup (he was elevated first round). We had Vickery. But all I am saying is in hindsight we would have been better to keep Derrickx and keep our pick 28 for a youngster (particularly since we chose mature age recruits with our later picks) and not tie up a list spot for 3 years at reasonably high pay. I don't know why this is so hard to understand that you need to keep putting words into my mouth to be honest.

No matter what you think of Hampson, Derrickx & Stephenson were not the answers. Given Big O has been delisted we'd have to chase a back-up ruckman this year anyway. So hypothetically Hampson isn't on our list, who would you chase & what would you give up?

 

[tigerlove]

No matter what you think of Hampson, Derrickx & Stephenson were not the answers. Given Big O has been delisted we'd have to chase a back-up ruckman this year anyway. So hypothetically Hampson isn't on our list, who would you chase & what would you give up?

I agree Hampson, Derrickx and Stephenson are not the answer. Theoretically Hampson isn't on our list as I said in hindsight (again!) we should have just kept Derrickx. Sydney, the AFL finalists didn't seem to have a problem with it, they thought it reasonable to recruit Derrickx as a backup after we dumped him. As for ruck issues, I am a firm believer that it is very difficult to recruit yourself a ruckman at 17/18 who is going to give you a result because most will not mature to full potential till age 24 or more, so it is extremely hit or miss. So my preference is to pay overs and recruit a bonafide quality ruckman when the window of opportunity arises in terms of premiership aspirations. Most of the successful clubs have done this in the past, a notable exception being West Coast Eagles who grew their own in Cox and Natanui. Hampson is 27 at the start of next year, he has been in the system for a long time and has shown very limited potential.

 

[bullus_hit]

I agree Hampson, Derrickx and Stephenson are not the answer. Theoretically Hampson isn't on our list as I said in hindsight (again!) we should have just kept Derrickx. Sydney, the AFL finalists didn't seem to have a problem with it, they thought it reasonable to recruit Derrickx as a backup after we dumped him. As for ruck issues, I am a firm believer that it is very difficult to recruit yourself a ruckman at 17/18 who is going to give you a result because most will not mature to full potential till age 24 or more, so it is extremely hit or miss. So my preference is to pay overs and recruit a bonafide quality ruckman when the window of opportunity arises in terms of premiership aspirations. Most of the successful clubs have done this in the past, a notable exception being West Coast Eagles who grew their own in Cox and Natanui. Hampson is 27 at the start of next year, he has been in the system for a long time and has shown very limited potential.

Agree with the sentiments, just want you to stick your neck out a little and name some players and the price you'd be willing to pay. It's all good and well to say Sydney made the right call but they also used a high pick on Nankervis, so they clearly have a succession plan.

Would you throw the kitchen sink at Ryder or Leuey?
Would you spend a 2nd rounder on Giles?
Would you trial a state league player like Baulderstone?

 

[uhuh uhuh]

I agree Hampson, Derrickx and Stephenson are not the answer. Theoretically Hampson isn't on our list as I said in hindsight (again!) we should have just kept Derrickx. Sydney, the AFL finalists didn't seem to have a problem with it, they thought it reasonable to recruit Derrickx as a backup after we dumped him. As for ruck issues, I am a firm believer that it is very difficult to recruit yourself a ruckman at 17/18 who is going to give you a result because most will not mature to full potential till age 24 or more, so it is extremely hit or miss. So my preference is to pay overs and recruit a bonafide quality ruckman when the window of opportunity arises in terms of premiership aspirations. Most of the successful clubs have done this in the past, a notable exception being West Coast Eagles who grew their own in Cox and Natanui. Hampson is 27 at the start of next year, he has been in the system for a long time and has shown very limited potential.

Interesting to look at the premiers since 2000.

2000 Essendon Steve Alessio and John Barnes
2001 Brisbane Clark Keating and Beau McDonald (both grown by the club)
2002 Brisbane Clark Keating and Beau McDonald
2003 Brisbane Clark Keating and Jamie Charman (both Home grown queenslanders)
2004 Port Dean Brogan and Brendan Lade (Both Grown by port)
2005 Swans Darren Jolly and Jason Ball
2006 WCE Dean Cox and Mark Seaby (Both grown by WCE)
2007 Geelong Brad Ottens and Stephen King
2008 Hawthorn Robert Campbell and Brent Renouf (both grown by Hawthorn)
2009 Geelong Brad Ottens and Mark Blake
2010 Collingwood Darren Jolly and Leigh Brown
2011 Geelong Brad Ottens and Trent West
2012 Swans Shane Mumford and Mike Pyke
2013 Hawks Max Baily and David Hale

 

[tigerlove]

Agree with the sentiments, just want you to stick your neck out a little and name some players and the price you'd be willing to pay. It's all good and well to say Sydney made the right call but they also used a high pick on Nankervis, so they clearly have a succession plan.

Would you throw the kitchen sink at Ryder or Leuey?
Would you spend a 2nd rounder on Giles?
Would you trial a state league player like Baulderstone?

Right now we have Hampson so it's a theoretical. Personally right now if we didn't have Hampson I'd stick with Maric, Vickery, Griffiths (who took a big step up in this area this year) and maybe look for a cheap mature age ruck as a backup for 1 year only. If we were in the premiership window I'd definitely chase Ryder hard, because he can also play in other positions and would be a perfect team up with Maric. I doubt we'd be in a strong position to get a Ryder do this year. I simply wouldn't lock in a non-proven player for 3 years giving away our 2nd round draft pick and a fistful of dollars.