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shaun hampson threads [merged]
- Thread starter Ian4
- Start date
tigerlove said:
Ok, so you want a cheap mature age ruck? State league player? Reject like Derrickx?
We knew we were in a pickle with Maric's fitness last year, hence the urgency to get a second ruckman in. But for all the jumping up and down about Hampson being useless, there really aren't any clear alternatives. Our planning has been poor in this area and one could argue we are paying the price now, but the fact remains that mature age rucks generally come at a premium. Good ones often attract first round picks, untested ones rarely come any cheaper than the second round.
Great video T-Shirt Tommy!!
Alright now I believe we should take Renouf as a delisted free agent and trade out Hampson for a pick to Sydney. They'd take him from us!
Alright now I believe we should take Renouf as a delisted free agent and trade out Hampson for a pick to Sydney. They'd take him from us!
Just on the discussion of tap ruckmen quality. Hawthorn's McEvoy had just 3 tapouts to advantage of 50 or so ruck contests. It's over-rated in today's game, what's more important is their capacity around the ground and in the contests. The best ruckmen are extra midfielders. That's why Maric is such a great ruckman.
tigerlove said:
At the bare minimum a ruckman must compete at ruck contests AND either take defensive marks or provide contests (at least guard the corridor a kick behind play) OR go forward and kick goals or provide assists
If you can get two rucks who play like midfielders, good job well done.
Yeah, I made a similar point. Just because options 1-5 arent acceptable doesn't mean you say "bugger it, I'll take option 6 even though it's garbage" and then get lumped with a VFL player for 3 years who will only play when MAric is injured.tigerlove said:
Correct again, a very overrated stat is HOTA. You're talking about 6 or 7 HOTA a game and many of those that go to a teammate who then gets collared by an opponent as the play is usually at a congested ballup. Yes, we all love to see the ruck tap it to the mid who runs off but we don't seem to get excited at the 98% of handballs that are to "advantage".tigerlove said:
If HOTA is so important then equal weight has to be given to "hit outs to disadvantage".
The days of the hit out ruckmen are long gone. The problem with them is that if the opposing coaches know they get few disposals, they don't need to be covered. This leads to a loose man and chaos for your backline.
Yep Pike killed it in the ruck but that gave Sydney zero benefit. Pike didn't get near it after the ruck contest.
tigertim said:
HOTA are overrated, except when a ruckman is able to give their team a constant clear advantage and that team uses that to go all out attack, like Carlton last year in the final against us.
a ruck doesnt need to dominate, but when they do it can provide a great advantage.
On Hampson, IMO every team needs at least an adequate no2 ruck. trouble is though if they are too good they will walk if they cant get a game. perfect scenario is too have a Ryder type who will play as KPF but can also play as no1 ruck, or to have a ruck pairing like NicNat and Cox who are able to play forward and arent too slow.
the Ryder types are few and fair between, hopefully in a year or 2 we will have 2 of them in Griff and TV. The NicNat/Cox combo really is unique and probably unlikely to be replicated in the near future.
so that leaves a ruck like Hampson. I reckon he is better far from the worst 2nd ruck going around, and this year was at times hopefully career worst form. If he can hold at least the simple marks, and he shown in previous years he can do this, he will be ok.
Brodders17 said:
Good post Brodders, we're continually seeing second rucks becoming restless and demanding a trade if their form warrants it, maintaining depth in the ruck departments is a constant balancing act. Hampson's best form this year was worthy of a solid second ruck, his worst was worthy of the football scrapheap. The challenge for Shaun will be to eliminate the bad as much as possible and to step up to the plate whenever Maric needs a rest. The key for mine is holding onto his marks, the kicking not so much. Five good games out of 11 is below par, we need him to lift that ratio to 9 or 10.
bullus_hit said:
Hampson was a good get last year, when Griffiths was destined for the football scrapheap. And not a soul here, or at the club (baloo aside) had much confidence in Griffiths become a decent back up ruck (especially as he'd never been tried there prior to the last pre-season). With the aim being to use Vickery to balance out our woeful tall forward stocks (only Riewoldt... seriously we have no other forwards - resting mids aside), we needed a second ruckman. Hampson was a good get, a good idea, and fit for purpose. Plus we traded away pick 32 in a shallow draft - not the end of the world and a decent deal.
However, as Griff showed he could ruck, Vickery showed he's better suited as a ruck/forward than full time forward, it became problematic to structure a side around Griff, Maric, Vickery and Hampson. Hampson may be a better tap ruckman than either Vickery of Griff, but both offer more around the ground. Ideally, Griff and Vickery would be one complete player who could back up Ivan, but at this stage we have to groom them to be our number 1 and 2 rucks in 2-4 years time. And now, Hampson has become surplus to needs.
All of this on the back of Griff showing nothing for 4 years and seemingly going backwards last year, but then hinting at what he could be this year. Hampson was a good idea, but is now unnecessary. I'm not upset at how the Hampson trade has turned out, because I'm not upset that we may get a player out of Griffiths yet. Even though it makes the Hampson trade look poorer, it makes us richer as a club.
Next year we play Maric as number one ruck, Griff and Vickery as 2nd/3rd forward to Jack and 2nd/2nd ruck to Maric. When Ivan needs a break, they share ruck duties for a game. And they are our ruck duo for the future. Two 200 cm agile, quick, mobile rucks. Both whos greatest weakness is rucking, yet both who have a platform to become decent rucks (which is all you need to be nowadays, if you're mobile). If they are better than that, it's a bonus.
Coburgtiger said:
Agree that he is surplus to our requirements when Maric is fit but I'd be hesitant to give Griff or Vickery anymore than 20-30% ruck time. In a perfect world Maric plays 18 games a season and Hampson fills in for the remainder, however we need to be mindful of running Ivan into the ground, we made that mistake in his first season and paid the price.
bullus_hit said:
I think Vickery's ready to have a few games as the no 1 ruck, I'd like to see him on the ball for a good stretch. His strength is in his groundwork and ability to get the ball to advantage by hand.
And, with Griff as a back up, if Vickery's not working, then they can switch. But I don't think either will be monstered which is the only time your ruck division becomes an issue.
