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Ruthless or reluctant? Time for the club to choose
- Thread starter Baron Samedi
- Start date
Obviously a lot of (additional) changeover on the list is coming. People on here seem to want to cull half the list.
If we look back on our last rebuild when Hardwick came on Board we cut hard. Before he started out went 12
Retired
Bowden
Richo
Sugar Kane
NBrown
Cogs
Delisted
Cleve Hughes
Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls
Adam Pattison
Pettifer
Polak
Putt
Jarrod Silvester
After year 1 Hardwick sent another 7 packing
Alroy Gilligan
Tom Hislop
Jordan McMahon
Dean Polo
Relton Roberts
Adam Thomson
Plus Cuz
So, basically half the list was gone in 2 years.
We drafted JR and Shedda in 2006, Cotch and Rance in 2007, and Dusty and Astbury in 2009.
We have already lost more quality in the last 3 years than we lost when Hardwick arrived. I don't think we have drafted any players as good as the above in the last 3 years. I'm not sure we can cut as deep as some would like. In addition to needing to nail our next few drafts, we need to balance who goes out while keeping some leadership around.
If we look back on our last rebuild when Hardwick came on Board we cut hard. Before he started out went 12
Retired
Bowden
Richo
Sugar Kane
NBrown
Cogs
Delisted
Cleve Hughes
Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls
Adam Pattison
Pettifer
Polak
Putt
Jarrod Silvester
After year 1 Hardwick sent another 7 packing
Alroy Gilligan
Tom Hislop
Jordan McMahon
Dean Polo
Relton Roberts
Adam Thomson
Plus Cuz
So, basically half the list was gone in 2 years.
We drafted JR and Shedda in 2006, Cotch and Rance in 2007, and Dusty and Astbury in 2009.
We have already lost more quality in the last 3 years than we lost when Hardwick arrived. I don't think we have drafted any players as good as the above in the last 3 years. I'm not sure we can cut as deep as some would like. In addition to needing to nail our next few drafts, we need to balance who goes out while keeping some leadership around.
Top stuff
Agree can't get rid of everyone.
We have lost enough through retirement
Keep Bolton
Let Rioli go because 2 1st rounders is overs
And Baker because anything under pick 15 we should be singing.
I would ask for Collingwoods pick for Baker and pick 31
We can, and we must get trade out Baker, Rioli, Bolton, Graham and hopefully Short.
Pickett, Cumberland, Grimes, Martin, Naismith, Colina should also be off the list by years end.
That’s 11 out and 11 in. Given the shape of our list, I would suggest that’s the minimum required
Pickett, Cumberland, Grimes, Martin, Naismith, Colina should also be off the list by years end.
That’s 11 out and 11 in. Given the shape of our list, I would suggest that’s the minimum required
What is this ‘balance’ people keep going on about?
We are looking to rebuild the midfield and Taranto/Hopper will still be there to lead the youngsters
Losing Baker, Bolton and Rioli will crack the sky wide open according to some on here
It’s just three guys. Bolton is the perfect trade and not much of an on-field leader. Baker is overrated.
Rioli is a loss both quality and leadership wise but we cannot rejuvenate without giving something away.
List balance is not the uppermost priority this year or next. But the list will settle once our next gen hit 50 games and we can complement them with some mature muscle.
We are looking to rebuild the midfield and Taranto/Hopper will still be there to lead the youngsters
Losing Baker, Bolton and Rioli will crack the sky wide open according to some on here
It’s just three guys. Bolton is the perfect trade and not much of an on-field leader. Baker is overrated.
Rioli is a loss both quality and leadership wise but we cannot rejuvenate without giving something away.
List balance is not the uppermost priority this year or next. But the list will settle once our next gen hit 50 games and we can complement them with some mature muscle.
That’s the key, isn’t it. Not only will we have draft picks galore but we’ll have salary cap to attract mature players. Will be a year or two before we go shopping though, won’t be at all surprised if we pay part of the salaries of those we trade out. Need to hit the min salary cap and not overpay players who haven’t earned it.
This off season is now the most important we’ve had since 2016 , no doubt with the game becoming more professional and players setting themselves up for life after footy we have lost a bit of club loyalty wrongly or rightly.
Though I’d love to keep as many of our top players especially those in the sweet spot of their careers I.e Bolton , Baker and Graham , however if for whatever reason they want to leave “ our” club then get the best bloody deals we can for them , even call Adrian and get some advice on how to be a dead set areshole . Not matter what players will say , when your not sure if the bloke running out beside you is fully invested it starts to create doubts and in poor clubs starts fractures in the playing groups . Remember how famously close and tight nit our legendary premiership playing group was .
Though injury prone now , the Likes of Lynch and Prestia with great club men that are still playing very good footy like Vlaustin , Broad , Taranto and of course our Captain leaves us very well off in the senior department and leadership .
Again at this stage it is a “ if” all the players talked about leave , well if they do geez we will be armed with a great haul in what recruiters believe to be a very high class even draft ( I gather it’s not quite a 2001 draft but nowhere near a 2004 draft ) , fact is there will be plenty of good footballers amongst it , always is .
No matter which way we go it will be flaunt with danger and risk , fact is with this list at this point we will not be challenging for a flag without major change in the next couple of seasons .
I’ll put my Mr B beanie on and say lets go as hard as we can at the draft , didn’t mean we can’t trade in a young gun if the opportunity arises , however let’s , thank the lads for their incredible life changing service , use the massive assets they will provide us , nail the draft and turn this club around quicker then anybody in the football world believes we can .
I’ll take the beanie of for a second, off field , let’s make sure this gets fixed with the correct appointments and terminations ASAP
Though I’d love to keep as many of our top players especially those in the sweet spot of their careers I.e Bolton , Baker and Graham , however if for whatever reason they want to leave “ our” club then get the best bloody deals we can for them , even call Adrian and get some advice on how to be a dead set areshole . Not matter what players will say , when your not sure if the bloke running out beside you is fully invested it starts to create doubts and in poor clubs starts fractures in the playing groups . Remember how famously close and tight nit our legendary premiership playing group was .
Though injury prone now , the Likes of Lynch and Prestia with great club men that are still playing very good footy like Vlaustin , Broad , Taranto and of course our Captain leaves us very well off in the senior department and leadership .
Again at this stage it is a “ if” all the players talked about leave , well if they do geez we will be armed with a great haul in what recruiters believe to be a very high class even draft ( I gather it’s not quite a 2001 draft but nowhere near a 2004 draft ) , fact is there will be plenty of good footballers amongst it , always is .
No matter which way we go it will be flaunt with danger and risk , fact is with this list at this point we will not be challenging for a flag without major change in the next couple of seasons .
I’ll put my Mr B beanie on and say lets go as hard as we can at the draft , didn’t mean we can’t trade in a young gun if the opportunity arises , however let’s , thank the lads for their incredible life changing service , use the massive assets they will provide us , nail the draft and turn this club around quicker then anybody in the football world believes we can .
I’ll take the beanie of for a second, off field , let’s make sure this gets fixed with the correct appointments and terminations ASAP
Surely the timing is right for Dylan to announce his retirement,
Could be celebrated with Dusty at the Gold Coast game.
Could be celebrated with Dusty at the Gold Coast game.
My view is that we hit it hard, before Tasmania (the Mappers!) come in and scoop the pool, ala GC and GWS did. Are any of those guys in question going to be around when we have our next tilt ==> No. So thank them for their service at the RFC and maximise their market worth now, over the next 1-2 years. And yes, there will be another 3-4 years of pain, but, the bigger picture beckons. Otherwise, we are just propping it up.....I'm actually looking forward to watching some kids develop....like with the current 2021 batch. Some will make it, some won't, but....Id rather not die wondering if we had of.
Are they your system 10 lotto numbers ? Might give them a go myself if you don’t mind. Probably a better chance of winning than those numbers coming up in our draft.
If we trade out contracted players like Short, Rioli & Bolton we’ll have to pay some of their salaries to get the high draft picks we hope they’ll command.
Nothing will crack the sky, but it will probably keep us firmly anchored to the bottom of the ladder for the next 3 seasons at a minimum and there won’t be a lot of light at the end of the tunnel, and it will also ensure that your messiah Yze won’t survive past 2026.
With Tassie coming in compromising the future drafts - it really forces our hand. We have to hit these next few drafts as hard as possible
Just 3 guys?
The three players we get for them will just be three guys as well.
The question is, will they be a better 3 guys?
In all likelihood, no.
1) multiple picks coming back to us
2) younger players with more years ahead of them, coming through together
This should be obvious, of course
Some of the analysis on here is painfully tedious
There's no need to gut the core to do that. Okay, so Baker might be out. That makes it more imperative to keep the others, not less. And if you're going to trade a player like Baker, it doesn't need to be for draft picks.
The draft is a gamble. Always. You'll have as many hits as misses, with each of those falling on their own spectrum. If you want younger players, trade for younger players. Some who've already been in the system and shown they can survive it.
You can use the picks we already have to hit the draft. Package and trade later picks to move up where possible (which has been done to great effect previously) . Those are free hits at the draft lottery.
You've said earlier here that it doesn't make sense to think you'll benefit from fewer picks, if you can't benefit from more. But the distinction here, is that the picks we already have cost nothing. Any value they generate is added value. Trading quality established players for picks that don't generate value is a net loss.
When has any team ever benefited from a mass trade off or a massive draft hand? GC? GWS? North?
Even the AFL worked it out with Tassie. They're being forced to not throw all their resources at the mystery box, and trade in known quantities instead.
Why would we intentionally choose the established basket case option?
We have known quality, which we would likely be trading for unknown speculation. We are also giving away any future trade value on a gamble. Essentially liquidating all the valuable assets to invest solely in the most volatile market, the draft.
If we do trade out Bolton, Baker and Rioli, and end up with a mediocre return from the resultant picks, which, looking at history, is an even money chance, then we would find ourselves at end of 2025 with no on field quality, and no stock.
On the promise of possibility.
You're just gazing voraciously at grass seed while you salt the earth.
It's not always sweeter.
We are anchored at the bottom of the ladder and those guys are playing.
But I get your point. For me it’s crucial we keep other leaders around for the next couple of years. Nank, Broad, Vlastuin, Prestia, Lynch. Then there is Taranto and Hopper.
If that core can remain in place then I am ok to go all out and get as much draft capital this year.
It’s also gonna have to be a damn good draft, because while we’ll get a good pick because we’re crap for the next few years we won’t have much, if anything, to trade out for other good picks.
No guarantees these kids are any better.
But why would you keep anyone that doesn’t want to be there?
