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Russia Invades Ukraine
- Thread starter Tigers of Old
- Start date
Try to imagine a world without NATO and you'll see a world where Russia would have retaken eastern Europe, and Ukraine, Latvia, Lithuania, Georgia and Estonia a long time ago. Belarus is already a proxy state.
I would argue that many of these countries, particularly, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland and Hungary, view themselves as western countries so to them it makes perfect sense to join a western alliance such as NATO.
Absolutely correct. He detests them and all that they stand for and what they did to the country he so inherently loves. Yet he accepts and uses their position in Russian business and society in order to stoke and entrench his power. And clearly accepts significant kickbacks (in various forms) under the table from them, to enrich him and his closest confidants.
There are some parallels as to how internal feuding, politics, power and wealth distribution is carried out within the upper echelons of the CCP and Chinese society too.
Perhaps I'm a cynical realist. But I've long since accepted (or resigned my self to the fact) that hypocrisy and sanctimony appear to be the natural human state.
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Yeah, probably. My main point was the removal of all sporting events that are to be played in Russia.
**** it...............ban all Russian TV networks from covering sporting events, and ban all TV coverage into Russia of sporting events that their athletes compete in around the world.
Those countries could sign a defensive military pact, but between them they are no match for Russia. Russia could invade and clear all of those countries. They needed NATO to provide the deterrent that they needed to keep Russia from engaging in attempts to restore the USSR.
Well, I can't say I am surprised, you seek to try and give some explanations as to the actions of the "other" side and this is then deemed to be support for the other side. Then you get accused of somehow supporting an authoritarian regime's actions.
So, to clear up the stupidity posted, let me quote myself:
Are some here arguing it really is clear cut?
Can I be any clearer?
You have to understand the situation as Russia sees it, otherwise, how are you going to solve the problem?
I have only watched the first 25 minutes of the video from John Mearsheimer, but he is talking sense. You have to realise that he is from the "realpolitic" school on foreign affairs so that does colour what he is saying, but he is still talking sense.
The comparison of the Monroe Doctrine to what is happening now is particularly pertinent. Just like the USA, the Russians will not accept large foreign powers (remember the USA is a member of NATO) having military force right next to them. As Mearsheimer says, welcome to realpolitic 101. Russia may not be a big economy, it may not be wealthy, it might be an authoritarian dictatorship (with somewhat unconvincing elections as a cover) but it remains a substantial military power.
In what universe do you expect a country like Russia to accept the expansion of a military alliance right on their border, an alliance which includes the world's biggest superpower, and an alliance which has one purpose, to oppose Russia? Not just expansion, but expansion right to their border. Oh, no worries, they'll be fine with this. Yeah, just like the USA were fine with missiles on Cuba.
It is supremely arrogant of the west to sheet home all the blame on to Putin (see the video, the west have been playing games in Ukraine for at least 20 years trying to make it part of the western alliance in opposition to Russia). There is a lot of blame on both sides in this dispute, but what we are presented with is simplistic crap about how it is all Russia's fault. People need to stop trying to see the world in black and white, it is never so simple.
Because I know this will be misinterpreted, I will state again: none of this justifies Russian invasion of Ukraine.
DS
So, to clear up the stupidity posted, let me quote myself:
Are some here arguing it really is clear cut?
Can I be any clearer?
You have to understand the situation as Russia sees it, otherwise, how are you going to solve the problem?
I have only watched the first 25 minutes of the video from John Mearsheimer, but he is talking sense. You have to realise that he is from the "realpolitic" school on foreign affairs so that does colour what he is saying, but he is still talking sense.
The comparison of the Monroe Doctrine to what is happening now is particularly pertinent. Just like the USA, the Russians will not accept large foreign powers (remember the USA is a member of NATO) having military force right next to them. As Mearsheimer says, welcome to realpolitic 101. Russia may not be a big economy, it may not be wealthy, it might be an authoritarian dictatorship (with somewhat unconvincing elections as a cover) but it remains a substantial military power.
In what universe do you expect a country like Russia to accept the expansion of a military alliance right on their border, an alliance which includes the world's biggest superpower, and an alliance which has one purpose, to oppose Russia? Not just expansion, but expansion right to their border. Oh, no worries, they'll be fine with this. Yeah, just like the USA were fine with missiles on Cuba.
It is supremely arrogant of the west to sheet home all the blame on to Putin (see the video, the west have been playing games in Ukraine for at least 20 years trying to make it part of the western alliance in opposition to Russia). There is a lot of blame on both sides in this dispute, but what we are presented with is simplistic crap about how it is all Russia's fault. People need to stop trying to see the world in black and white, it is never so simple.
Because I know this will be misinterpreted, I will state again: none of this justifies Russian invasion of Ukraine.
DS
remember when Howard was feebly felating George Dubya during 911?
Morrison senses a marketing opportunity.
this "horrible psycho" (note: get *smile* right wingers, we can use quotation marks as well, we just use them properly, around quotations) would declare war on china if it meant he held power.
hes playing an astonishingly negligent game.
But Xi could Nuke Canberra the morning of the election,
and Australians would still kick these incompetent corrupt *smile* out.
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I think Ukraine and Georgia are different than the baltic states and most of Eastern Europe as they have much closer historical ties and claims of sovereignty. Russia is not the great power it once was and couldn't hope to use its military to control what the USSR used to control.
Yeah I don't think any of us doubt that China is watching as a very keen observer and that Vlad and Xi are probably even sexting each other about now.
But politicians have to be very careful not to look as childish as Vlad himself and his bizarre conflations and rantings. Directly conflating the two, as Morrison seems to have done, just unsophisticated childishness.
Yep. Murdoch. Then Lachlan #2, otherwise what's the point. But Putin definitely a day 1 assignment.
Where have you got Dud-Mo and Voldemort ranked ? Is Mince Whateley on there ?
The USA will be EU very, very soon. I've had a friend in the US (through online gaming) has been told to be prepared to be in Germany or Poland by early next week.
This is going to escalate.
This is going to escalate.
Dud-Mo and Voldemort I would let off with regular bashings and seizure of all assets. Mince, a punch in the guts and a slap in the face would do.
Russia Must Pay
Deterrence has failed. Now it’s time for Putin’s defeat.
Note: "take in refugees" should be an undodgeable responsibility of going to war.
